Friendly-controlled

[REYLEE]

It is about "friendly-controlled".

If Zoraida use Obey to control one of enemy model, is the model a friendly-controlled model for her?

Can she make the controlled model to take Strategies/Schemes?

I know enemy/friendly never be changed.
However "friendly-controlled" confuses me because rule defines it:
A model is friendly-controlled if it is currently controlled by its own Crew, owner or a model in its Crew.
Based on this, IMO a model controlled by obey is not a friendly-controlled model for Zoraida.

How do you say?

[Maniacal_cackle]

Okay, this is messy, but here's an attempt to answer.

The only reasonable way to read it is that friendly and enemy control is in relation to the model of interest (not the model being controlled).

Hidden martyrs: model A or B have to die to score the point, at the hands of an enemy-controlled model. In this case, this means enemy-controlled to A or B (aka, your opponent has to control the model doing the killing).

The model of interest is model A or B.

Symbols of authority: a friendly controlled model can remove enemy markers. A model can only remove a marker if it is an enemy marker AND it is friendly controlled (so no controlling the enemy to remove a marker that is friendly to it).

That's me making a first draft attempt. Had to rewrite it three times. It is messy to understand, let me know if this does not make sense or if there is another scheme/strategy you want me to look at.

EDIT: for the sake of clarity, no, Zoraida cannot obey enemy models to remove strategy markers on Symbols of Authority. They are not friendly controlled (relative to the model doing the removing), and they can only remove enemy markers. Nor can you obey an enemy model to remove a marker on your side to mess up their timing (as the model of interest is enemy controlled).

[REYLEE]

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Okay, this is messy, but here's an attempt to answer.

The only reasonable way to read it is that friendly and enemy control is in relation to the model of interest (not the model being controlled).

Hidden martyrs: model A or B have to die to score the point, at the hands of an enemy-controlled model. In this case, this means enemy-controlled to A or B (aka, your opponent has to control the model doing the killing).

The model of interest is model A or B.

Symbols of authority: a friendly controlled model can remove enemy markers. A model can only remove a marker if it is an enemy marker AND it is friendly controlled (so no controlling the enemy to remove a marker that is friendly to it).

That's me making a first draft attempt. Had to rewrite it three times. It is messy to understand, let me know if this does not make sense or if there is another scheme/strategy you want me to look at.

EDIT: for the sake of clarity, no, Zoraida cannot obey enemy models to remove strategy markers on Symbols of Authority. They are not friendly controlled (relative to the model doing the removing), and they can only remove enemy markers. Nor can you obey an enemy model to remove a marker on your side to mess up their timing (as the model of interest is enemy controlled).

Thanks for your prompt reply.

It is clear, no matter if controlled, a model can remove enemy S-markers only on Symbols of Authority.

I have another question about Public Enemies.
Again, Zoraida... if she obeys an enemy model to kill opponent's another model...
Now we know obey-controlled enemy is not a friendly-controlled model for Zoraida.
Based on this, Can she get Bounty Tokens?

I checked the definition of "Killed":
Killed models are always considered to be killed by the model that generated the Action or Ability that killed them.

In this case, the victim was killed by Zoraida's Obey? or the controlled friendly model's action?
I think the answer is Zoraida. My reason is Zoraida's Obey "generate" the action and the controlled model "take" the action.
Is it? or anything I misunderstand.

Thank you very much.
 

[Maniacal_cackle]

58 minutes ago, REYLEE said:

Thanks for your prompt reply.

It is clear, no matter if controlled, a model can remove enemy S-markers only on Symbols of Authority.

I have another question about Public Enemies.
Again, Zoraida... if she obeys an enemy model to kill opponent's another model...
Now we know obey-controlled enemy is not a friendly-controlled model for Zoraida.
Based on this, Can she get Bounty Tokens?

I checked the definition of "Killed":
Killed models are always considered to be killed by the model that generated the Action or Ability that killed them.

In this case, the victim was killed by Zoraida's Obey? or the controlled friendly model's action?
I think the answer is Zoraida. My reason is Zoraida's Obey "generate" the action and the controlled model "take" the action.
Is it? or anything I misunderstand.

Thank you very much.
 

What counts for generating the kill originally is the subject of debate (it is unclear).

Might need someone else's second opinion, but my guess....

If a model kills a model friendly to it while controlled by Zoraida, Zoraida gets the tokens.

The part about 'friendly controlled' is for if you kill your own models (for instance, Zoraida obeys Dead Rider to kill a Silurid). In this case, the Resser player still gets bounty tokens (you can't 'deny' a score by killing one of your own models right before it dies).

[Adran]

In my opinion GG1 has a typo but I don't know exactly what it was.

I believe Friendly controlled and enemy controlled are supposed to be mutually exclusive.

There are two ways they could be -Friendly controlled is a model that is controlled by a model in your crew, or friendly controlled is controlled by a model it counts as friendly.(And the opposites for each to be enemy controlled).

Unfortunately, the definitions we got in GG1had a mix of the two (such that they weren't mutually exclusive).

I can't quite get my head around them enough to work out which way leads to less abusable situations, so I don't know what exactly they meant.