Alex Chesterfield Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 When killing a model and gaining tokens for Public Enemies, do you count the cost of upgrades when determining the models cost? Do you count the +1 for out of keyword, non-versatile models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Maniacal_cackle Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 Nope, the base cost of the model is the cost. The rest usually only matters for hiring, or for abilities that specifically reference it (like Marcus). Source: same question came up for Vendetta. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 solkan Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 The direct rulebook references (I didn't want to review the previous threads this morning): Quote Additionally, a player may hire any models that belong to their declared Faction, though models that do not share a Keyword with their Crew’s Leader have their Cost increased by +1 during hiring. The exception to this rule are models with the Versatile Characteristic, which do not have their Cost increased when they are hired. and Quote A Totem can only be hired if the linked Master is also in the Crew. If this Master is a Crew’s Leader, the Totem’s Cost is considered to be 0 during hiring. and Quote When hiring Crews, each player must hire their chosen Leader. However, that Leader’s Cost is treated as 0 when hiring. there simply is no reference in the rulebook saying that an upgrade attached to a model changes the model's cost. Upgrades are paid for during hiring, but that that's all the rulebook says: Quote During hiring, any model can pay for and Attach a single Upgrade. During the hiring steps, there are discounts or taxes applied to some models. But they're only defined for the hiring steps. The question "Does a model's cost change during the game?" is a reasonable one to ask because it would be easy for that sort of rule to be hidden away somewhere, easy to overlook. But the game doesn't work that way. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 eddy Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 Another question on topic. Lets look at mounted guards. They are worth 8 points but they have demise and are replaced with guild patrols worth 4. Assuming enemy does not ignore demise enemy gains only 1 point towards strategy after killing MG replaced by patrol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Maniacal_cackle Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, eddy said: Another question on topic. Lets look at mounted guards. They are worth 8 points but they have demise and are replaced with guild patrols worth 4. Assuming enemy does not ignore demise enemy gains only 1 point towards strategy after killing MG replaced by patrol? When you kill the mounted guard, it is replaced and removed and no points are scored for it. When you kill the guard patrol, it doesn't care about its history. It is worth the cost of the guard patrol (4 stones). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 solkan Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 8 hours ago, eddy said: Another question on topic. Lets look at mounted guards. They are worth 8 points but they have demise and are replaced with guild patrols worth 4. Assuming enemy does not ignore demise enemy gains only 1 point towards strategy after killing MG replaced by patrol? Yeah, the replace rules do create a sort of strange situation. If you have a stratagem that says something like "Pick such-and-such model" and you write down the Mounted Guardl, whatever that Mounted Guard turns into during the game is considered to be what you picked, regardless of whether what it turns into would have been a valid choice. So you can choose a enemy Mounted Guard (8SS) for Vendetta and a friendly 6SS model (Oxfordian Mage), the Oxfordian Mage can still score the first point of Vendetta against the Guard Patrol. Because you choice was valid originally, and the replace rules substituted different models and then have the "It's okay. These still count as good" clause. But for schemes that don't make fixed choices, an Oxfordian Mage wounding or killing a Guard Patrol is a 6SS model beating up a 4SS model, and they don't care that the 4SS model was originally an 8SS model. The scheme didn't ask you to make a choice, so the Replace rules don't have anything to keep the way it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Alex Chesterfield
When killing a model and gaining tokens for Public Enemies, do you count the cost of upgrades when determining the models cost? Do you count the +1 for out of keyword, non-versatile models?
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