Push toward a marker

[t4zz]

Hi! 

If a model is being pushed 6" toward a Scrap marker that is within 2" of that model... Where should the model end the push?

a) As soon as it is in base contact in the nearest point.
b) As soon as its nearest point is in contact with the center of the marker.
c) When the center of the model is in contact with the center of the marker.
d) None of them.

Please, explain your answer.

Thank you!

[Maniacal_cackle]

Annoyingly, there is no clear answer. There is an argument for:

• Push until bases touch (weakest argument)
• Push until edge of model is on centre of marker.
• Push until centre of model is on centre of marker.

The first one is a bit weak as technically you push to the centre of something when you push to it.

My group plays the second option, as it seems a bit less powerful than the third option.

[NoisyAssassin]

It's definitely b or c (as you push towards the center), but beyond that...? Don't think there's a good argument either way with how the rules are written.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Yeah, upon reflection that one is definitely out! (Except for impassable of course).

[Raising]

I'd argument that once you start moving you should stop under two circunstances

* You collide with a model or impasable terrain(page15 /push/ paragraph 2)

* Going any where further will provoque you move away from the target(page 15/towards away/paragraph 4.

 

So once the first condition has no impact here. For the second. Can we answer the question. Is the model closer or further from the center of the marker if it step over the center? Where are you measuring from?

 

 

[Ogid]

15 minutes ago, Raising said:

So once the first condition has no impact here. For the second. Can we answer the question. Is the model closer or further from the center of the marker if it step over the center? Where are you measuring from?

Interesting one but also seems legit. With this one there would be a fourth option... if we asume the direction is set at the start, we are pushing toward the center and we may measure from any point of the base, pushing until the edge of the base is about to leave the center (after going over it) would be another valid answer.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think centre to centre is the "cleanest" way to measure it, but I'm not sure there is a rules justification for it.

[Raising]

Is there a way to get an official answer? I do agree that centered on the center is the best Approach. But still

[Adran]

2 hours ago, Raising said:

Is there a way to get an official answer? I do agree that centered on the center is the best Approach. But still

The only official answers are in the faqs. There is no formal way to get a question in there, but they do read the forums so asking it here will have bought it to their attention. 

[Paddywhack]

On 3/12/2020 at 2:15 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think centre to centre is the "cleanest" way to measure it, but I'm not sure there is a rules justification for it.

How do you accurately judge where the 'center' of a model is? You can eyeball it, but sometimes that little extra bit can make a huge difference. On a 30mm it may not make too much difference, but a 50mm model leaves a bit of room for error trying to accurately place it exactly center to center. Since we measure from the edge of the base, it seems cleaner to go edge of base to center, though I still find that messy. I'd prefer it if was always edge to edge to make it easier to cleanly place and see.

Would love a clarification in the next FAQ so we are all playing it the same way though.

[Erik1978]

I've never seen anything other than stopping a push when first contact occurs. That puts all base sizes in the same distance to the center of that marker (in this case) and is easy to do in exactly the same way every time.  Very relevant question!

[Rufess]

What happen if a model is pushed toward a marker that its center point is already covered by the model?

Does the model "go back" to the position that rim-to-center or rim-to-rim? Either of these do not sound like "push forward" to me.

[Clement]

42 minutes ago, Rufess said:

What happen if a model is pushed toward a marker that its center point is already covered by the model?

Does the model "go back" to the position that rim-to-center or rim-to-rim? Either of these do not sound like "push forward" to me.

In the "rim-to-center" and "rim-to-rim" scenarios, they just wouldn't go anywhere.   There's no direction that can get them closer because they are already 0" away.

[ezramantis]

This just came up in my latest game so I figured I'd "reactivate" the thread and see if there was new information.

We ruled the front edge of the model moves to the "center" of the marker cause it seemed the most balanced ruling and easy enough to approximate.

After that point the model is (arguably) moving away from the center of the object.

[Maniacal_cackle]

5 hours ago, ezramantis said:

This just came up in my latest game so I figured I'd "reactivate" the thread and see if there was new information.

We ruled the front edge of the model moves to the "center" of the marker cause it seemed the most balanced ruling and easy enough to approximate.

After that point the model is (arguably) moving away from the center of the object.

A few different groups I've played with do rim to centre. (Although I can see an argument for centre to centre).

[ezramantis]

7 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

A few different groups I've played with do rim to centre. (Although I can see an argument for centre to centre).

Yeah, me too

[Saviouress]

This sure is a bit of thread necromancy (and it's not the Rezzers forum) on the topic, but I guess it's useful as this is the rules forum after all (checked the FAQ didn't find what I wanted)

I had this question about pushing towards markers popping up, do we by now have a ruling on when to stop?

For our game we used middle of the models base being on top of the middle of the markers base for the point of stopping the push.

 

The follow up came up if there's even a difference between being base to base and being overlapping. Meaning you got argue that you could push "over" the middle points as long as you would stay in base contact, because technically the distance to the marker is still 0" ... but that seems a bit too odd.

[Maniacal_cackle]

16 minutes ago, Saviouress said:

This sure is a bit of thread necromancy (and it's not the Rezzers forum) on the topic, but I guess it's useful as this is the rules forum after all (checked the FAQ didn't find what I wanted)

I had this question about pushing towards markers popping up, do we by now have a ruling on when to stop?

For our game we used middle of the models base being on top of the middle of the markers base for the point of stopping the push.

 

The follow up came up if there's even a difference between being base to base and being overlapping. Meaning you got argue that you could push "over" the middle points as long as you would stay in base contact, because technically the distance to the marker is still 0" ... but that seems a bit too odd.

Push towards/away rules have been errata-ed.

Now you pick one point on each object, and you push the point towards the other point.

So essentially the pusher gets to choose what parts of the bases end up overlapping.

[Saviouress]

Ah so I can end up base to base in front of the marker by choosing the correct reference points?

 

[solkan]

4 hours ago, Saviouress said:

Ah so I can end up base to base in front of the marker by choosing the correct reference points?

 

 

4 hours ago, Saviouress said:

Ah so I can end up base to base in front of the marker by choosing the correct reference points?

 

Exactly.  The developers noted that the change was to give players more flexibility.  Note that you can also choose points inside the bases, if you want partial overlap.