GG1 - Schemes and Strategies Arcanist Edition

[Jordon]

So what are peoples take aways from the new strategies and schemes. Are there any standout winner or loser keywords? Will this shift the power within the arcanist factor or is it more or less the same?

[nomadicXnightmare]

Can't speak to power shifts, but I just played my first game of GG1 on Monday taking Marcus into Asami. I fared pretty well - 6 to 5 victory. Leaping models are obviously still reeeeeally good into Symbols. Catch and Release worked out exceedingly well, especially when your chosen model has Deadly Pursuit to counter end-of-game engagement.

[dannydb]

I really think sandeep or colette will be stand out leyline masters 

 

You generally want movement tricks or summons I feel for leylines. Collette has a load of movement tricks and also lures to pull your oppenent away from their leylines 

 

Sandeep can summon to fill holes and has psudo obeys to fill holes or bounce the loadstone around as needed

[Mycellanious]

I think Foundry is going to be good this GG. They have 2 Reckless models, which is great for both Leylines and Recover Evidence. Obviously its going to be hard to stop them from scoring Symbols.

Lots of people look at the "can't place" clause and assume that means Foundry is weak at the scheme because it hinders RtR a little bit. I think people are underestimating the Foundry's ability to Push themselves, and the speed of a Mv 6 model with Reckless, but we'll see.

I do think they are going to struggle with the new schemes because they are pretty bad at interacting, but Research Mission is a cake walk for Foundry.

[cbtb11235813]

Recover Evidence - I think Hoffman stands out the most in this one to me. Transfer power lets them kill something, move and interact all in one turn. That's before you consider Hoff making things fast, and generally being tanky enough to make it difficult for the opponent to get any evidence. Colette seems like she might be good, because lures, presto-chango and Don't Mind Me, but I'm worried most of her models just wont be tough enough in a killy strat like this. She may have to go out of keyword a bit

Symbols of Authority - I'm not a fan of Marcus, but I think this one is great for him. There aren't a lot of crews as fast as Chimera, and with plenty of leaps around, denying them this one will be tough. Sandeep may also be a good bet, as he can pretty effectively get a Wind Gamin downboard in a hurry, and can leave some things behind to defend his own markers. 

Corrupted Leylines - High model count/out of activation movement is gonna win this one. I tried Marcus in this one since SRM has Laugh Off, and that worked ok, I suck with Marcus though. Sandeep seems solid here as well, with his elemental obeys. I still haven't played Foundry, but even with the no-place clause they seem solid at it. For denying this, offensive movement abilities are huge. Raspy might actually do well, since she can block off LOS to the stone carrier, and can make that model move with her gun. I think she will struggle to score points here but will deny them well.

Public Enemies - Who did you take for reckoning? Probably just take them. Durability means more now than it did before, so I think Hoffman is going to be the winner overall. Not only do you need to survive to deny points, if your token carrier dies, you aren't scoring. This is not a glass cannon friendly strat. 

I didn't call her out specifically, but Kaeris is good at everything and I will continue to take her for anything . Actually though, Hoffman seems to be the overall winner of GG1 strats, he's possibly the best choice for 2 of the strats, and can certainly do the other two with a different crew build. 

[JArrow]

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Recover Evidence -  Colette seems like she might be good, because lures, presto-chango and Don't Mind Me, but I'm worried most of her models just wont be tough enough in a killy strat like this. She may have to go out of keyword a bit

I think this is interesting combinaton of killing and controlling, as it prefers melee combat and durability. Colette might definitely have some good ways to get enemy where you want and rider, duet and/or emissary will make enough kills. 

 

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Symbols of Authority - I'm not a fan of Marcus, but I think this one is great for him. There aren't a lot of crews as fast as Chimera, and with plenty of leaps around, denying them this one will be tough. Sandeep may also be a good bet, as he can pretty effectively get a Wind Gamin downboard in a hurry, and can leave some things behind to defend his own markers. 

Colettes new favorite. Enemy is about impossible to prevent don't mind me performers from scoring and crew has many ways to prevent enemy from getting to your symbols.
 

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Corrupted Leylines - High model count/out of activation movement is gonna win this one. I tried Marcus in this one since SRM has Laugh Off, and that worked ok, I suck with Marcus though. Sandeep seems solid here as well, with his elemental obeys. I still haven't played Foundry, but even with the no-place clause they seem solid at it. For denying this, offensive movement abilities are huge. Raspy might actually do well, since she can block off LOS to the stone carrier, and can make that model move with her gun. I think she will struggle to score points here but will deny them well.

I think Colette can play this one also as she can place models before lodestone is transferred to them. And lures etc. can be used to screw enemy placement.
 

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Public Enemies - Who did you take for reckoning? Probably just take them. Durability means more now than it did before, so I think Hoffman is going to be the winner overall. Not only do you need to survive to deny points, if your token carrier dies, you aren't scoring. This is not a glass cannon friendly strat. 

Compared to reckoning, you can't deny enemy points by high value minions/enforcers. Also I think this is the hardest strategy to claim 4 points, as you will need 2+3+4+5 = 14 tokens that is about what one crew have in total. So all lost tokens are significant as long as you can keep at least one model alive. You want to spread kills, so losing one model wont hurt that much and cheap models (6p) give less points to enemy than same amount of more expensive ones. 

[hemgath]

My 2 cent's after about 20 games in GG1:

Recover Evidence - 
It's hard for me to don't put any  SS miner... but:
Hoffman is good at that, test it and win the game easily. The important things is too have enought guys with transfer power...
Colette can make good thing's too... with a duet and some external aid's like the emissary
Marcus with a good team not too glas canon one make good things too... SRM is realy good at that !
On paper Sandeep can make a good job but don't test him on that... The shastar seem really interesting in this strat but maybe a bit fragile ?
Meifeng make a good job too, but like Colette you must choose somme tanky model with her
DHM Ramos make good job too...
Don't like tony on this because you can't run after enemy...
Don't test Kaeris

Symbols of Authority - 
Nearly the same team as recover evidence but with more mobility and less tankyness and you can use SS miner !
Kaeris can do it easily...
Sandeep is really interesting in this place if you are not too away from the enemy line...

Corrupted Leylines -
For me the best team is Sandeep because you can easily summon guys near the marker... Marcus have the laught off guys and an incredible speed to cross the map... The ridder is a diamond in this strategy with all our master... SS miner can be interesting if you make a strategy with 2 off round...
I try the concept with Raspy... and it's clearly too hard to deny corectly this strategy... it's a dream to think you can struggle your adversary even with 20 pilar...

One other things in this 3 first strategy: I alawy's wan't to take amina... if you have some LOS she look a very good model in each of this 3 strat even OOC...

Public Enemies - 
WTF... for me it's the hardest one... because Tony can be good but not good as she can in Reckoning... A majority of his model cost more than 9. And it's the best way to give point to enemy...
And clearly it's maybe the only one we can use Tony, i'm a little sad...
I try Hofmann and he make good job... Try marcus with 2 SRM and a lot of healing... it work good
I think you can play Colette  with a strategy "under 6 cost models"... (our construct are realy good... and 2 coryphée with good upgrade are interesting...)
Rasputina is an other way... but you must find a solution for corectly protect her if ennemy contact her...
Mobile toolkit seem a good choice too because he is insignificant...
I try mecharachnid with SS cache and if you can protect her a little she is incredible for is cost  precise onslaught at  !!!

[Jinn]

19 hours ago, hemgath said:

A majority of his model cost more than 9. And it's the best way to give point to enemy...

Aren't most of the models you want to bring less than 9SS? Unless you're planning on hiring The Captain, Amina Naidu, and Langston.

Ironsides can run plenty well without Langston and Amina, and The Captain is such a strong counter pick to shooting that he is probably worth the Public Enemies risk to bring against a shooty crew. Ironsides with 2 x Gunsmiths, Fitzsimmons, a Steam Arachnid Swarm, a few upgrades and/or a schemer or two should be fine into this strat. Langston isn't even a very good beater to begin with and Amina is hardly essential to the core of the crew, especially now that Obey is so much less overpowered.

[hemgath]

2 hours ago, Jinn said:

Aren't most of the models you want to bring less than 9SS? Unless you're planning on hiring The Captain, Amina Naidu, and Langston.

Ironsides can run plenty well without Langston and Amina, and The Captain is such a strong counter pick to shooting that he is probably worth the Public Enemies risk to bring against a shooty crew. Ironsides with 2 x Gunsmiths, Fitzsimmons, a Steam Arachnid Swarm, a few upgrades and/or a schemer or two should be fine into this strat. Langston isn't even a very good beater to begin with and Amina is hardly essential to the core of the crew, especially now that Obey is so much less overpowered.

Sure... like i said she's good... " but "

I'm a little sad because for me "public ennemy" is the only strat i can see her actualy ( maybe in some recover ? ) but globaly they re a lot of other choice for master. ( i test the gunsmith with her and they are fragile for this strat, you must be very carefull with them ) certainly we must continu this advice on the tony topic instead of here

One last things, i m sure they re a way for sandeep in "Public Ennemy"... next game i certainly test him With the strange new reading on SVG' riccochet... they become better beatter ... and the return to stacking focus and other things on replace made very strong golem... IMHO according to interesting scheme for accademic i m sure he can be good at this even if he is a summoner and not a tanky boss

[cktAvatar]

On 4/19/2020 at 3:16 PM, hemgath said:

With the strange new reading on SVG' riccochet... they become better beatter ...

What do you mean with this "new" reading? Did I miss something here?

[Mycellanious]

7 minutes ago, cktAvatar said:

What do you mean with this "new" reading? Did I miss something here?

So the FAQ specifies that "Another" always means "Not the model taking the Action" excpet in cases where that doesnt make gramatical sense (ex. Another scrap marker)

In the case of the Richochet trigger, that means RAW you can apply Richochet to the model you attacked (because it is not the model that took the Action and it is always within 3" of itself), so all models with Richochet have their damage tracks increased by 1/2/4.

In addition, the FAQ clarifed that all triggers are subject to Focus and Accuracy Modifiers. So if you spend focus you get a positive to the attack and a positive to an additional 1/2/4 unavoidable damage on the same target. 

[cktAvatar]

Wow, ok that makes it a lot better. Thanks for the clarification!
Still, it kind of sounds not intended that way 😉, but ok if Wyrd says so..

[Trample]

24 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

So the FAQ specifies that "Another" always means "Not the model taking the Action" excpet in cases where that doesnt make gramatical sense (ex. Another scrap marker)

In the case of the Richochet trigger, that means RAW you can apply Richochet to the model you attacked (because it is not the model that took the Action and it is always within 3" of itself), so all models with Richochet have their damage tracks increased by 1/2/4.

In addition, the FAQ clarifed that all triggers are subject to Focus and Accuracy Modifiers. So if you spend focus you get a positive to the attack and a positive to an additional 1/2/4 unavoidable damage on the same target. 

Kind of like it never really made sense to let Hannah use her bonus action as a charge, it doesn't really make sense to apply the term another in this way to the ricochet trigger. Even though that is what the FAQ says, I don't think any reasonable interpretation would say that the ricochet trigger should hit the model you just hit. It's silly. Now, Wyrd doesn't exactly rush out clarifications or FAQs, so we should all just apply our common sense to this one and not let it become the "I'll just keeping doing it this way until Wyrd fixes it even though I know it's wrong" that Hannah was. 

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

49 minutes ago, cktAvatar said:

Wow, ok that makes it a lot better. Thanks for the clarification!
Still, it kind of sounds not intended that way 😉, but ok if Wyrd says so..

it was not intended that way and makes absolutely no sense from the point of view of balance and realism. the mess with ricochet trigger ruling is, well, a ricochet of a ruling on the word "another" in one of Nekima's actions. they answered in a way that is applicable to every action with "another model" in its description. my impression is that they haven't looked at every instance of "another model" phrase being used in a sentence and were not aware of the implications of their ruling for other triggers, like Ricochet.

[Trample]

I just looked up the SVG since this was bothering me, and the Nekima interpretation doesn't apply anyway. Ricochet says - Choose another model with 3" of the target. Clearly, with that wording, the target cannot be hit by the ricochet. 

[dannydb]

is the target not within 3" of its self?

[Jinn]

51 minutes ago, Trample said:

I just looked up the SVG since this was bothering me, and the Nekima interpretation doesn't apply anyway. Ricochet says - Choose another model with 3" of the target. Clearly, with that wording, the target cannot be hit by the ricochet. 

The whole point of the FAQ was that "Another" always refers to the model taking the action. If you take a Rules As Written approach (not saying you should, though I think this is why nerfs should generally be Errata instead of redefining what rules mean) this means that ricochet's only restriction on targeting is that it cannot select the model taking the action, which will only come up if the model is within 3" of the target. The target of the action with the ricochet trigger is both within 3" of itself, and also not the model taking the action, so it is a legal target for ricochet.

I would agree that the common sense and intuitive English interpretation of the wording is that "another" refers to the target in this case, which is why the nerf to Nekima should have been an Errata to change the wording on her card rather than changing what "another" refers to in M3E.

[Trample]

Yes - I definitely see the way that reads in the FAQ, and I do see why you're saying that. We both agree on how the rules should be interpreted, so I am not arguing here, but I don't really see how they could be interpreted any other way, despite the FAQ.  

[GrumpyGrandpa]

Can you link to this FAQ, and which area I can find this in?  Is it in the 2020 March FAQ?

[Jinn]

14 minutes ago, GrumpyGrandpa said:

Can you link to this FAQ, and which area I can find this in?  Is it in the 2020 March FAQ?

https://www.wyrd-games.net/s/M3E-Season-1-FAQ.pdf

It is in section 9: Neverborn

"1. Nekima – Can Nekima Push and take a Action as a result of a friendly Nephilim model being killed within range of her Enraged By Insolence Action?

  a) No. “Another” always refers to “not the model from which this text is written” except in those instances where the model in which “Another” is written would not always be a legal subject of the    sentence, such as “Another Scrap Marker”, or “Another enemy model”. In such cases, “Another” will never refer to the previous legal subject."