GG1, FAQ, Errata - Outcasts

[Zebo]

Needing a 7 is really hard, I think. I'm tired of Von Schill's equipment needing 7s to succeed (Leap and Grenades) and can be frustrating, taking out the suit means that the effect that before was always, now it happens 25% of the time, and with so high TN you need to cheat a card, spend a ss or both. 

Talking about Equipment. No one thinks that a regular action from a Master, a  from another model, a 5 and a 7 are too many resources for a short-ranged attack with small area that usually needs a 7 to being avoided and, if failed only does 2 damage or distracted 2? 

[S4lt]

Agree on the TN for Aionus, it's a super resource intensive crew and this is just another hoop for it.

Combined with the GG strat changes it's a pretty rough time all round for Tara.

[Jordon]

I just feel like the Aionus nerf would have went down so much easier if they had buffed the Talos. The lack of synergy with Talos makes the obliteration keyword feel so small and the hit to Aionus feels deeper than it would otherwise.  I think Obliteration is still just fine as a keyword but I really do wish Talos could pull his weight better.

[KID55]

I don't understand why Rusty receive such huge nerf for her move. I agree that 6 mv maybe little bit too cool. But 4? This is okay for snipers, who has 14-24" range. But Alyce? I think 5 mv is fine. Dissapointing.

[Mycellanious]

35 minutes ago, KID55 said:

I don't understand why Rusty receive such huge nerf for her move. I agree that 6 mv maybe little bit too cool. But 4? This is okay for snipers, who has 14-24" range. But Alyce? I think 5 mv is fine. Dissapointing.

Its because Disengage reduces Push distance by 2/4/6. So before she was guaranteed to Disengage successfully unless you flipped severe. Now you only need to flip moderate to stop her.

[KID55]

7 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

Its because Disengage reduces Push distance by 2/4/6. So before she was guaranteed to Disengage successfully unless you flipped severe. Now you only need to flip moderate to stop her.

And? Why it not 5? This is average move in game. In this logic 5 and 6 mv - it's a crime, and all models must have 4 or less.

[Mycellanious]

19 minutes ago, KID55 said:

And? Why it not 5? This is average move in game. In this logic 5 and 6 mv - it's a crime, and all models must have 4 or less.

Because 5 is still greater than 4, so you would still need severe to prevent her from disengaging. 

Not all models need Mv 4. But models with a 12" range, 3/4/5 dmg track, routinely shoot 4 times per Turn, and get Focus from their crew ought to have some counterplay. 

Before it didnt matter if you engaged Rusty, she simply disengaged and still shot you 3 times. Now thats a bit harder for her. 

[RisingPhoenix]

RIP Tara.  Aionus is now not only among the most fragile 10 soulstone models in the game, the lowest damage 10 soulstone model in the game, but also got his utility nerfed.  And you can't take Hannah to be a big dumb robot standing in front of him.  Tara now (with the changes to Aionus and Daschel) has the worst summoning in the game.    Dropping the trigger to one pass token would have been fine.  Corrupted Idols had a huge design flaw - winning initiative is god - and rewarded summoning ablative HP.  Tara happened to exploit both halves of that with enormous ease, better than any crew in the game. That was fixed once Corrupted Idols rotated out.  

Hopefully the mid-year buff gives Hannah a tactical action that lets a friendly friekorps model push its Mv or focus, and restores Aoinus' suit and at least knocks the TN for unburying down to a 10, because this crew is not going to be played competitively.  A 10 soulstone fragile utility piece might be hard to balance, but you didn't hit it.  I don't think people understand how bad this crew is if you kill Aionus and Karina, and neither puts up much resistance to dying.  

OTOH the change to replace has made Sandeep and Hamlin really, really good.  Welcome to the new meta boys, Sandeep Desai is your new god and we have to figure out how to kill him.  

[ShinChan]

37 minutes ago, RisingPhoenix said:

RIP Tara.  Aionus is now not only among the most fragile 10 soulstone models in the game, the lowest damage 10 soulstone model in the game, but also got his utility nerfed.  And you can't take Hannah to be a big dumb robot standing in front of him.  Tara now (with the changes to Aionus and Daschel) has the worst summoning in the game.    Dropping the trigger to one pass token would have been fine.  Corrupted Idols had a huge design flaw - winning initiative is god - and rewarded summoning ablative HP.  Tara happened to exploit both halves of that with enormous ease, better than any crew in the game. That was fixed once Corrupted Idols rotated out.  

Hopefully the mid-year buff gives Hannah a tactical action that lets a friendly friekorps model push its Mv or focus, and restores the suit and at least knocks the TN for unburying down to a 10, because this crew is not going to be played competitively.  A 10 soulstone fragile utility piece might be hard to balance, but you didn't hit it.  I don't think people understand how bad this crew is if you kill Aionus and Karina, and neither puts up much resistance to dying.  

OTOH the change to replace has made Sandeep and Hamlin really, really good.  Welcome to the new meta boys, Sandeep Desai is your new god and we have to figure out how to kill him.  

Hannah it's still nuts. She can easily goes to a damage track of 5/7/9. Adaptative tactics is still a really good action. Being able to take any other Tactical action from Freikorps gives her an incredible versatility: Multiple heals, movement tricks, ending conditions, giving shielded, giving focused... So you're wrong, she can give focus and push, between many other things.

Regarding Aionus, yes, he got hit a bit too hard for what he is: a support model that costs 10ss, with a low damage output and no survival tech other than SS. So obliteration got hit by:

• Strategy that directly puts them in the unplayable side.
• The main henchman, nerfed a bit too much (the action should require a 3-4 to go through and removing the suit).
• The clarification rules about "At the beginning of activation" making Age to Destruction (that was already bad) a useless bunch of text in 3 models (Tara, Karina and the Scion, on whom it was already specially useless).

[RisingPhoenix]

Hannah is fine in a VS crew.   She's no longer takeable in a Tara crew, which again is a Tara problem.  Tara doesn't really have any big ugly model to sit in front of Aionus and fight.  Hannah used to do well in that role because of her Glimpse trigger.  Yes, you were paying 21 stones for it, but it was worth it.  Now both halves are nerfed, and there's really no way to deal with that except "stop playing the crew".  If Talos was any good he might also fix the problem, but he's a piece of shit model that is not worth taking.  Hannah sitting back and shooting is fine.  Talos sitting back and shooting is not fine, because he has no shoot action.  If they wanted to give him Ancient Words (with a built-in Tome), that would help.  Hell if they did that and buffed him to 8 hp, I'd take him at 9 stones.  Especially if they gave him a built in crow on steal essence, really, it would not be overpowered.  There's a reason no Tara crews include him.  

I really would like the Tactical action for Hannah to bring her in OOK in other crews.  But regardless, Obliteration is really bad.  

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

2 hours ago, RisingPhoenix said:

OTOH the change to replace has made (...) Hamlin really, really good.

I think the change hurts him more than benefits. It means that if you don't want to loose the whole Ratking activation you cannot reform rats via unclean influences, which means that you give your opponent more time to react and kill at least one of them.

[touchdown]

1 hour ago, RisingPhoenix said:

Hannah is fine in a VS crew.   She's no longer takeable in a Tara crew, which again is a Tara problem.  Tara doesn't really have any big ugly model to sit in front of Aionus and fight.

What about the Emissary?

[RisingPhoenix]

5 minutes ago, touchdown said:

What about the Emissary?

The Emissary is a support piece.  He doesn't get into fist fights with Ototo or Joss.  His thing is handing out slow.  So is Aionus'.  You're now paying 20 soulstones for two support pieces that don't even work well together.   There's a maximum number of stones you can spend on support pieces and expect to win games reliably.

[Houseballey]

8 hours ago, ShinChan said:

• The clarification rules about "At the beginning of activation" making Age to Destruction (that was already bad) a useless bunch of text in 3 models (Tara, Karina and the Scion, on whom it was already specially useless).

why? and how?

[S4lt]

Hannah wasn't nerfed, just corrected. She's still an excellent choice in an Obliteration crew. 

It's just Obliteration isn't an excellent choice anymore. 

[Adran]

7 hours ago, Houseballey said:

why? and how?

Age to destruction will only happen if the model starts its activation with 4". If the model was buried, and then unburies at the start of its activation, it won't count as starting its activation within 4"

[Adran]

2 hours ago, S4lt said:

Hannah wasn't nerfed, just corrected. 

Based on the discussion at the time, for most people she plays exactly as she did beforehand, so not even corrected.

[Bort]

2 hours ago, Adran said:

Age to destruction will only happen if the model starts its activation with 4". If the model was buried, and then unburies at the start of its activation, it won't count as starting its activation within 4"

Ok, first of all, I haven't seen the discussions, but I can't even fathom how it could have been interpreted differently.  But let's not go into something that has already been resolved.

And secondly, not being able to cheese it with Glimpse hardly makes it "useless" on a crew that hands out Fast like candy.

It forces choices onto the opponent. If something has Fast and is within 4" that can activate, do I activate it and take the 2dmg hit. Or, leave it making it a target for the keyword unburies. It still deals auto dmg in a bubble.

*Edit... oops, This meant to be a response to @ShinChan  rather than @Adran

[Zebo]

I'm pretty happy with the changes made, what makes me sad are the changes that haven't been made. 

[Zeus]

I think the statement that obliteration crew “hands out fast like candy” is a gross exaggeration  when I’ve had them table. They are a crew which are very card intensive, greatly more so since the significant nerf  to Aionus in this errata. I doubt they will be seeing much consistent competitive play at tournaments in GG1...there are just better options now in outcasts even for scheming. 

 

[RisingPhoenix]

The idea that Obliteration "hands out fast like candy" is similar to the idea that Parker "leaves enemy scheme markers everywhere."  In that it's an interesting idea, primarily held by people who have never played or played against the crew.

[Jesy Blue]

1 hour ago, RisingPhoenix said:

The idea that Obliteration "hands out fast like candy" is similar to the idea that Parker "leaves enemy scheme markers everywhere."  In that it's an interesting idea, primarily held by people who have never played or played against the crew.

Granted, Parker drops a lot of enemy scheme markers, but rarely does the crew "leave" them everywhere.

[Bort]

15 hours ago, Zeus said:

I think the statement that obliteration crew “hands out fast like candy” is a gross exaggeration ....

I stand corrected.

Candy gives Fast as a trigger.

Obliteration has it on 7 of the 8 keywords models.   Nothing alike.

[S4lt]

18 minutes ago, Bort said:

I stand corrected.

Candy gives Fast as a trigger.

Obliteration has it on 7 of the 8 keywords models.   Nothing alike.

What's your suggested crew composition for competitive play? 

[Drool_bucket]

Until testing proves otherwise (and I sort the new Schemes better)

Corrupted Leylines = Zipp

Symbols of Authority = Viktorias

Recover Evidence = Parker

Public Enemies = Von Schill

if any opposing Faction or Scheme pool blow up this first choice, default to Leveticus.  Or if I just wanna play Leveticus, take him.  
 

Daw, Tara and Hamelin are for fun games.