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Reaction Thread: GG1 - Guild


4thstringer
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I don't know that GG1 is coming out today, but my brain and expectations have decided it is. (which if I am let down means I only have myself to blame)  And so I am opening this thread up for reactions now.

Love it hate it?  Do you have a new favorite master?  Is something you thought was bad in the last edition suddenly good with the new schemes and strats?

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1 minute ago, Irritated Walrus said:

The can drop that last marker if necessary, but the model has to have burning, it's in base contact, and its once a turn. That being said, there was literally almost NO reason to take them before so this is an improvement. 

I keep trying to talk myself into them as a blast marker tool, but if people are bunching against Sonia and Sam I already have that.

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Instant Reactions:

Nellie got a stealth buff from the FAQ ruling (though it sounds like the Brits were already playing it that way), but the wording of the FAQ opened other questions in my mind.

Frontiersmen are now interesting, but I'm not sure if good.  I think I can make that ability work with traps.

New No Prisoners is interesting.  @Gnomezilla mentioned combining it with toss, which is very interesting.

Enslaved neph card is a big deal for perdita

The Dispatcher changes are what we have been begging for for Dasch.  Huge difference.  Might make him best in faction, remains to be seen.

Hoff ruling was how I was playing it, but nice to have confirmation, because wasn't sure.

0 marker pickup was what I expected, but glad\sad for confirmation.

Agent 46 is no longer the most elite mimic sniper anymore, but it could be worse.  I just wish he was tough enough to survive getting into it.

Pale rider nerf coulda been worse, but all our low reach models or no engage models really suffered the most from it.  I think it will change how he is played to a ranged stagger machine.

35-45% terrain rather than 40-50% is good for us and good for the game. 

 

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Happy with most of changes, especially with Dispatcher. He is great now (side note his laugh off aura was reworded and now works against obey like atacks).

Raider nerf was fair.

Personnaly i think Agent nerf was not needed.

Greed changes are cool. Finnaly got real atack worth using on non ss users.

No prisoners becomes interesting counter tech. Also worth take in Sonia crew

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I think the Rider nerf is going to hurt.  It is a completely fair and reasonable change, of course, but its still going to hurt (the agent 46 change is also reasonable, and will also hurt, just less so).

 

The Dispatcher change is the best thing about the errata by some margin, although Nefarious Pact on the Enslaved Nephilim is also very nice.

 

The other changes to Guild just feel like minor shifts for the sake of it, but we'll have to see if there's any improvement in our fortunes as a result.  

 

The new schemes have a very strong Scheme marker bent and should be interesting to play, but Guild on the whole has very little in the way of dropping Scheme Markers outside of the basic Interact Action (a few ways of getting additional Actions to make those Interacts, but not many extra Markers) so I can see us still struggling in some pools.

 

I think that overall its a case of improving Guild through the nerf of other factions rather than addressing Guild's issues.  But its something and I'll take it!

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1 hour ago, eddy said:

Personnaly i think Agent nerf was not needed.

I'd agree that it's unneeded as it stands, but it opens up a huge amount of design space for future changes or new models. Hopefully the next Errata is a bit more proactive about buffing models.

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3 minutes ago, theamazingmrg said:

The new schemes have a very strong Scheme marker bent and should be interesting to play, but Guild on the whole has very little in the way of dropping Scheme Markers outside of the basic Interact Action (a few ways of getting additional Actions to make those Interacts, but not many extra Markers) so I can see us still struggling in some pools.

Most keyword has at least one way to drop scheme markers out of interact.

Elite : draw out secrets trigger on lawyers/investigators, false claim on false witness

Reporter : false claim, secrets exposed in 2" aura

Marshall : draw out secrets on Jury

Guard : scheme movement on sergent, taggart to change totem or ennemy scheme to friendly

Witch hunter : thalarian queller

Augmented : no idea, I do not play them

Basse : no way at the moment

We also have strong denials on this. I am afraid if we have to go from one side of the map to the other before scheming. Otherwise, I believe we are ok.

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8 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

Frontiersmen are now interesting, but I'm not sure if good.  I think I can make that ability work with traps.

They still look pretty underwhelming. Same as Greed.

8 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

Enslaved neph card is a big deal for perdita

The Dispatcher changes are what we have been begging for for Dasch.  Huge difference.  Might make him best in faction, remains to be seen.

Agreed

8 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

Agent 46 is no longer the most elite mimic sniper anymore, but it could be worse.  I just wish he was tough enough to survive getting into it.

He should probably get a Df6 for having to choose between Mimic and Inhuman Physiology. The offensive nerf is justifiable

8 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

Pale rider nerf coulda been worse, but all our low reach models or no engage models really suffered the most from it.  I think it will change how he is played to a ranged stagger machine.

 

The bonus action changes are ok but he has the worst base attack of all the riders IMHO. If he ignored concealment/cover/had a:+fliphe'd be OK IMHO

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56 minutes ago, le_wahou said:

Most keyword has at least one way to drop scheme markers out of interact.

Elite : draw out secrets trigger on lawyers/investigators, false claim on false witness

Reporter : false claim, secrets exposed in 2" aura

Marshall : draw out secrets on Jury

Guard : scheme movement on sergent, taggart to change totem or ennemy scheme to friendly

Witch hunter : thalarian queller

Augmented : no idea, I do not play them

Basse : no way at the moment

We also have strong denials on this. I am afraid if we have to go from one side of the map to the other before scheming. Otherwise, I believe we are ok.

Draw Out Secrets - yes, this is great. and there's no denying Lucius and Nellie are great for Scheme-heavy pools, but on Jury its on a 1" melee action that causes no damage (although Slow is nice) so puts the Jury in a vulnerable position to be able to use it.

False Claim is really good, but again is mostly a Lucius/Nellie thing.  You can take models out of Keyword, obviously, but then you run the risk of diluting synergies you need so isn't always the best choice.

Secrets Exposed isn't really Scheme Marker dropping.  The FAQ makes it clear that an opponent can choose to remove Scheme markers even if there aren't any, so more often than not its going to result in Scheme marker removal, not placement, if anything.

The Sergeants Scheme Marker movement doesn't count either.  You still need the Interact Action to place the Marker in the first place (most of the time).  It helps with positioning, but not with the efficiency (in fact its less efficient, as its one Action to place the Marker, and then another one to move it).

Queeg also takes two Actions in order to get the enemy to drop a Scheme Marker and then turn it to a friendly one.  Helpful, yes, but efficient, not so much.

Queller's Scheme Marker dropping is also contingent on another Action first (whether its own Arcane Staff, or some other source of Burning) so is inefficient.  It's also the Queller, which isn't the best model even in ideal circumstances.

Augmented have zero Scheme Marker dropping in Guild.  They do have access to the Arcanist Union Steamfitter, who can discard a card or a Scrap Marker to drop a Scheme (or Scrap) Marker as a bonus action, but I'm a) talking about Guild, and b) Guild Augmented have a distinct lack of intentional Scrap Marker dropping to fuel that (the two Hoffmans have Creative Salvage, so need to kill something, and the Mechanical Attendant can do it as a Trigger on his bonus).  Joss also has Creative Salvage, but again, we're then into looking at Arcanist models.

And Frontier has no way of dropping them outside of Interacts.

 

 

So yes, Guild have options, but outside of Elite and Journalist, they generally require a minimum of two Actions to drop.  That just makes them less efficient than other factions, which coupled with their simplistic movement makes trying to score Marker-heavy Schemes incredibly Action-intensive.  Especially things like Runic Binding which require you to not only have the Markers in the right place, but engineer the enemy models to be in the right place too.

 

Thank the Governor for Lucius, that's all I can say!  I imagine we'll be seeing a lot of him and Dashel in the next year.

 

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