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On 7/14/2020 at 6:40 PM, clockworkspide said:

And have you talked to your local Henchman about that?

There are a lot of great community builders out there, but just to be clear, it isn't the responsibility of individual volunteers to market the game.  If Wyrd's plan to build TOS enthusiasm is to hope that henchmen push it, then they may as well close up the line right now.

 

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On 7/14/2020 at 8:40 PM, clockworkspide said:

You keep saying they hardly promote their product, but what exactly do you want them to do towards that end that isn't already happening?  And have you talked to your local Henchman about that?

Gotta have one, to talk to em.  As for what to do? Other that securing their manufacturing and distribution? I look at GW for inspiration as they basically have the hype train on lock. staggered distribution so that you are seeing something come out each week or every other week. Video media driving into their product weather it's models, campaigns, stories or gameplay. Bring back their promo system. Community interaction. Make good on their contests like obsidian gate's Dr.watson or Sandmen....releasing the starter should help as well getting cross promotion for tOS, mind you it's like  two years past when it was originally planed to be released maybe longer....  that's just a few things there. 

Heck I continue to be surprised they dont hire some writers to put out a few novels, the short stories are fine but I know people who would be hyped to read an actual series let alone being able to lend out the lore to cross pollinate to none wyrd players. There's a ton that can be done.

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On 7/14/2020 at 9:40 PM, clockworkspide said:

You keep saying they hardly promote their product, but what exactly do you want them to do towards that end that isn't already happening?  And have you talked to your local Henchman about that?

There aren't henchmen (or henchwomen) anymore. They were going to rebuild the project, but no news in a loooooong time, not even a simple: "Hey guys, we're working to have it ready once the pandemic give us all a break".

13 hours ago, Merchant said:

Gotta have one, to talk to em.  As for what to do? Other that securing their manufacturing and distribution? I look at GW for inspiration as they basically have the hype train on lock. staggered distribution so that you are seeing something come out each week or every other week. Video media driving into their product weather it's models, campaigns, stories or gameplay. Bring back their promo system. Community interaction. Make good on their contests like obsidian gate's Dr.watson or Sandmen....releasing the starter should help as well getting cross promotion for tOS, mind you it's like  two years past when it was originally planed to be released maybe longer....  that's just a few things there. 

Heck I continue to be surprised they dont hire some writers to put out a few novels, the short stories are fine but I know people who would be hyped to read an actual series let alone being able to lend out the lore to cross pollinate to none wyrd players. There's a ton that can be done.

You can't compare GW with Wyrd. GW has been around more than 40 years and there are more than 100 times the number of people that are part of Wyrd.

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On 2/12/2021 at 10:53 AM, ShinChan said:

There aren't henchmen (or henchwomen) anymore. They were going to rebuild the project, but no news in a loooooong time, not even a simple: "Hey guys, we're working to have it ready once the pandemic give us all a break".



Haven't read anything else, but actually - yes we did. We have stated quite clearly that until things get back to some sense of normal, that we won't be pushing the Henchman program for several reasons, one of which is that a few stores themselves have complained directly to us as if we are pushing Henchmen or other enthusiasts into their store and not being rather careful themselves.

No matter how much you tell folks 'hey, they are just enjoying the game, not employees or X' it is still seen and labeled as 'they pushed them to come and do X'. We're not going to deal with that during this time in the least, more than enough misconceptions about that we don't need the added hassle of it while trying to do what we do. 

 

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Perhaps off topic from the original intent of the thread but, just because there isn't a "Henchman Program" doesn't mean there aren't Henchman out there. I still run events and promote for the games that Wyrd produces. I did it before there was a Henchman program and I still do now that we are in standby.

As for GW being the gold standard of minis...well I don't agree. Their production has lagged, especially during the Pandemic. Sure they show a lot of new stuff but actually getting stuff isn't as simple (the store I work in has had significant trouble getting GW product that wasn't for the new hotness with some orders being over 4 weeks late). There are plenty of SKU's that have been on back order for a very long time, even "new release" stuff. A lot of factions for their games haven't seen anything new in a very long time (truthfully a lot of factions have had their options whittled down, cough, cough Orks and Eldar), that is unless you have some version of Space Marine in your name in which case you receive very regular and frequent updates. Their books are inconsistent at best with several writers diverging significantly from previous or even current cannon. The Beast Arises series was horribly bad despite having some very intriguing political arcs that redeemed it somewhat. This is the benefit and issue with having a large publicly traded multinational corporation, sure they have access to lots of marketing tools and resources but they are also beholden to shareholders and a corporate structure that in all likelihood doesn't even use the product they sell and is only interested in profit margins. Many of the GW game lines have suffered because of this. Thankfully the fan base has managed to preserve some of these fine games.

Wyrd has done a solid job of controlling access to their IP's and while I don't agree with everything they have done the games are better for it. Would I love to see The Other Side get more love, yes! Would I like to see some of the great board games like Puppet Wars and Darkness Comes Rattling see some more development, oh god yes! Do I want to see it at the expense of the games and a 'constantly chased meta" sales structure, definitely not.

I am looking forward to renewing my Henchman status when the program is relaunched. Whether that is tomorrow or some time down the road, I will still promote Wyrd products and run events in my area. I am lucky though...my area wasn't as badly affected by Covid lock downs as others. We already have our next Malifaux league scheduled, are running frequent Through the Breach sessions, and have begun the preliminary work of establishing a "The Other Side" community.

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The London uk group has reawakened. A bunch of us are playing actively on vassal and getting started on painting at the moment. 
 

News of the app and starter have been amazing for building hype. A few more pics would be welcome. 

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On 3/12/2021 at 11:14 AM, Omenbringer said:

As for GW being the gold standard of minis...well I don't agree. 

Wyrd has done a solid job of controlling access to their IP's

Do I want to see it at the expense of the games and a 'constantly chased meta" sales structure, definitely not.

See i wasn't talking about those aspects, and there was no need to bring them up.  I'm talking about marketing, advertising, hype, lore, stories. things that get people invested in both the short term and the long term of the game. As for controlling the IP idk how that matters? sure they have a tight leash on writing but malifaux's lore has been inconsistent as well, I'm just pointing out that a long form narrative might do a lot for the game, i'd wager a good portion of the existing community would love it and it would be a great way to introduce people to the world that isnt necessarily the game itself. dont like GW thats fine, Corvis beli commissioned a manga for their game and it sold incredibly well, and they are working on another last I checked. People love stories pretty sure thats the only reason the faction books/codex's sell.

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@Merchant The points I brought up were in response to your comments about GW's

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marketing, advertising, hype, lore, stories. things that get people invested in both the short term and the long term of the game.

You are comparing an established, global, publicly traded corporation with Shareholders to small, privately owned entities with far smaller workforce's where most employees are wearing multiple hats.

I conceded in my post that Games Workshop has significantly more marketing tools and resources than all their competition combined. It is fitting as they have been in the business since 1975. They had a very long head start. Yes, they are good at promoting their games, the "hype train" losses its luster though when you can't get the actual products and/ or the support for the games is inconsistent at best. It looses even more luster when you can't count on a game seeing continued development after the initial money grab (Remember Shadow Wars: Armagedon, Dread Fleet, Battle Fleet Gothic, Inquisition, Mordheim). Mordheim is particularly interesting as it has had a Video game (PC and Console) release in 2015 and a fairly successful mobile game that is currently available that builds "Hype"  for a game that has been out of print for over a decade with no development after 2004. Blood Bowl and Necromunda were in a similar state until fairly recently as well.

How long did it take GW to progress the 40k universe? Most of their lore content, up until fairly recently was staged in the very distant past with zero progression of the timeline. The Warhammer Fantasy line was just as bad until Age of Sigmar destroyed the old war and progressed the story.

GW has released many books and series for their flagship game Warhammer 40k, but consider that the first of the Horus Heresy novels, the singularly most important event in the lore of the game, was published in 2006. That is 31 years after the companies founding. They have also released several video games and animated series to add to the "hype", however; most of these are fairly recent and many have caused significant issues with existing lore (the Space Marine game which was offered on the console systems and the Animated series are sterling examples of this as the Ultra Marines are one of the most fleshed out Chapters in 40k and both of these directly conflicted with the long established lore of the 2nd Company. A Company with damn near every member published).

Corvus Belli is a fairer comparison to Wyrd as they are similarly sized companies of a similar age (Corvus Belli was founded in 2001 with Infinity being released in 2005) and structure. Corvus Belli has done some great things with their flagship game, however it hasn't been willy-nilly either. How much have they really expanded their lore for Infinity over their four editions and RPG game? When did they publish their manga, 2017? That was 12 years after their their flagship game was released and 16 years after their founding. How is their release schedule? While I like the company they haven't really been doing much.

In comparison, Wyrd was founded in 2005 but Malifaux wasn't released until 2009. In only 12 years they have released three editions for their flagship game with 18 books expanding the story and progressing the timeline. Additionally, through the first two editions, Wyrd maintained a bi monthly Webzine with 39 issues that was and remains free to download containing not just game related materials on painting and playing but also many stories that added and expanded the world (some in series format). This is before considering the additional lore and history that is contained in the 16 Through the Breach RPG books, The Other Side TTG book and the Breachside Broadcasts (how many are there of these?). In short, there is already a ton of material to digest for the world of Malifaux. As for their release schedule, well in the time I have been a Henchman (and I believe I am one of the longer tenured ones) I can't recall very many months they didn't have something coming out for Malifaux, not to mention their other games. Additionally, Wyrd has very rarely been out of stock on an item for months at a time. The global Corporation that is GW can not say the same, their web store still doesn't have Chaos Space Marine Defilers in stock after more than a year.

Again, Wyrd is not perfect but, I think they are doing a pretty good job and in many ways are significantly ahead of the power curve of their competition. Hell in some game aspects they forced the big dogs (GW and Privateer press) to reassess their games and make changes to stay relevant.

Yes, it would be nice to eventually see a novelization or video game chronicling the struggles in Malifaux or The Other Side, but again not at the cost of everything else. Given you posted this in "The Other Side" sub-forum I would wager you want to see more development for this game, I am in agreement with you. It never quite felt like it got a good release after the Kickstarter campaign and Wyrd deciding to hold off on selling at GenCon before the Backers got their rewards (a noble decision in my opinion). If I know Wyrd, they have these things in the plan but the realities of capital, personnel, time, and oversight are all factors that weigh into the equation. I am glad you are enthusiastic about the game, the community needs that to grow. Not sure where you are located but if you want some help in building a community there are plenty of old Henchman that would love to assist. It is hard work but well worth it. I have done it three times.

 

 

And one parting shot, while I like the expansion of the world over the editions and game offerings, I do miss the days when this forum used to fiercely debate the Earthside location of the Breach and things were a bit more "free-form". Many great theories were posted with plenty of facts to rest the cases upon. Gaps in lore are not always a bad thing, it is the space in which we can found our own Space Marine Chapters and develop our own histories. This thread has motivated me to post the announcements I provided for my last narrative Malifaux league that concluded February 20, 2021. While definitely not canon it was fun to produce.

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See i wasn't talking about those aspects, and there was no need to bring them up.  I'm talking about marketing, advertising, hype, lore, stories. things that get people invested in both the short term and the long term of the game.this whole discussion was similar to the "employee monitoring" company where I worked As for controlling the IP idk how that matters? sure they have a tight leash on writing but malifaux's lore has been inconsistent as well, I'm just pointing out that a long form narrative might do a lot for the game, i'd wager a good portion of the existing community would love it and it would be a great way to introduce people to the world that isnt necessarily the game itself. dont like GW thats fine, Corvis beli commissioned a manga for their game and it sold incredibly well, and they are working on another last I checked. People love stories pretty sure thats the only reason the faction books/codex's sell.

 

I don’t understand how I don’t like GW. Thank you for your answer, you are right.
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@Omenbringer   Well Im glad you can see my criticism comes from a place of love, it's the reason I'm so hard on wyrd, I want them to be better if not the best because of what they make. TOS is actually my favorite game of many many that I've played and been apart of it just sucks to see it constantly on the back burner or completely out of sight.

as for henching? or just promoting that game, I have a hard enough time getting people to play malifaux, let alone a game most people believe is dead.

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