Kharnage Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Lady Justice (arguably) is the Guild queen of countertech. You like to bury to hide yourself @Misaki or @Tara? I can hire dudes to stab you in space. You like standing there to hand out auras? I can bury you with pine boxes. You like to summon things? Exorcism. You get the picture. So why on earth does Lady Justice have a rule called "Final Repose*" where they're supposed to be dead forever and not do anything when they die, but it doesn't allow her to ignore demise abilities? If only Nicodem had had Manos's upgrade for some Demise (Eternal) he could have stuck it out? Final Repose should let the models ignore Demise abilities, it's all I'm saying. Not quite Soul Lantern aura cuz they have to do the killing, but still, makes sense to me, both fluff and mechanics wise. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. EDIT: Good Catch @Sweet Tooth on the ability name! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Tooth Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Lordy I thought you were about to come for my girl J, but instead I’m all like ‘Preach!’. Just to clarify, I think you mean ‘Final Repose’. It’s on Justice, Judge, and DMRs. I’m all for letting J get that as a buff for some new ability that denies dropping markers and demise. ❤️❤️❤️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le_wahou Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 I thought this was about stat 7 Sorry, I know, I shouldn't feed it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnage Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 13 minutes ago, Sweet Tooth said: Lordy I thought you were about to come for my girl J, but instead I’m all like ‘Preach!’. I am an adoring fan of all of Malifaux's Beater Ladies. Nekima's always going to be the God Empress, but Justice is my pick for putting Guild on the map! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Final repose isn’t about Justice severing kharmic ties, souls or astral bodies in some wyrd magic-Mumbo-jumbo-hoodoo-way. Its simply the effect of Justice going all paranoid berserkerist and running every body through a meat grinder to avoid their ressurection. She’s just a blind chick with a katana after all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 In fairness - what percent of summoning is actually done off of corpse markers anymore? I feel like final repose is mostly just useful for keeping the board from getting too cluttered these days 😛 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord J Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, le_wahou said: I thought this was about stat 7 Sorry, I know, I shouldn't feed it... Don't worry, nobody cares; we all learned during Beta the way for Lady J to win Championships is with Decays and ending Conditions...🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Can I tell you how much during my game I wanted decay to be stat 6? I might care about that more than stat 7 sword. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinChan Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 23 hours ago, Kharnage said: Lady Justice (arguably) is the Guild queen of countertech. You like to bury to hide yourself @Misaki or @Tara? I can hire dudes to stab you in space. You like standing there to hand out auras? I can bury you with pine boxes. You like to summon things? Exorcism. You get the picture. So why on earth does Lady Justice have a rule called "Final Repose*" where they're supposed to be dead forever and not do anything when they die, but it doesn't allow her to ignore demise abilities? If only Nicodem had had Manos's upgrade for some Demise (Eternal) he could have stuck it out? Final Repose should let the models ignore Demise abilities, it's all I'm saying. Not quite Soul Lantern aura cuz they have to do the killing, but still, makes sense to me, both fluff and mechanics wise. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. EDIT: Good Catch @Sweet Tooth on the ability name! Ignoring demise would maybe be a bit too op against certain crews (Big Hat comes to mind for example). But what I really hate from that ability is that is anti-synergy with so many other tricks of the Marshall keyword that actually require corpse markers. More comments about this here: Also, as I mentioned there, the completely different and ranges between a few models makes playing with Marshall (in keyword) very clunky and prone to slow the game a lot (always checking distances before any movement) or make a lot of positioning mistakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnage Posted February 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, ShinChan said: Ignoring demise would maybe be a bit too op against certain crews (Big Hat comes to mind for example). Doesn't seem to be consideration for Kirai with Datsuba, Yan Lo with Manos, or Shen Long with Charm Warders, all of whom I would argue are strictly superior masters competitively. And I long for the day where literally anything out of guild is considered the "ugh" matchup for anyone that isn't Brewmaster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kharnage said: Doesn't seem to be consideration for Kirai with Datsuba, Yan Lo with Manos, or Shen Long with Charm Warders, all of whom I would argue are strictly superior masters competitively. And I long for the day where literally anything out of guild is considered the "ugh" matchup for anyone that isn't Brewmaster. That's my feeling. Guild for some reason is subject to a "it can't be above average" level of scrutiny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinChan Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Kharnage said: Doesn't seem to be consideration for Kirai with Datsuba, Yan Lo with Manos, or Shen Long with Charm Warders, all of whom I would argue are strictly superior masters competitively. And I long for the day where literally anything out of guild is considered the "ugh" matchup for anyone that isn't Brewmaster. I mean it due to all the abilities that would directly make the game a win for Marshall: Anti-summoning, corpse removal and anti-demise all in one. I don't think that Marshall needs anti-demise, but is my opinion, we can have different ones and that's perfect I would argue for more (some) movement tricks and removing abilities that directly penalize the crew instead of helping, like "Final Repose" making "One foot toward the grave" or "Final Rest" useless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Vening Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 Well, as it'd a new ability anyways, you could always put an expense on it so it's less a universal buff, and more a gametime decision. Discard a card (or two) to have it ignore Demise. Have it be a trigger. Have it be a Bonus Action to have it apply until end of activation (so give up Leap/RoR, and having to "call your shot"). That'd stop it from wrecking certain matchups (like the Big Hat @ShinChan mentioned), while still making it a threat against important models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycellanious Posted February 27, 2020 Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 Imo Lady J should ignore Terrifying (but not Manipulative or Serene Countenence). She's supposed to go find and slice up the biggest, baddest undead guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted February 27, 2020 Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 On 2/26/2020 at 3:04 AM, Kharnage said: Lady Justice (arguably) is the Guild queen of countertech. You like to bury to hide yourself @Misaki or @Tara? I can hire dudes to stab you in space. You like standing there to hand out auras? I can bury you with pine boxes. You like to summon things? Exorcism. You get the picture. So why on earth does Lady Justice have a rule called "Final Repose*" where they're supposed to be dead forever and not do anything when they die, but it doesn't allow her to ignore demise abilities? If only Nicodem had had Manos's upgrade for some Demise (Eternal) he could have stuck it out? Final Repose should let the models ignore Demise abilities, it's all I'm saying. Not quite Soul Lantern aura cuz they have to do the killing, but still, makes sense to me, both fluff and mechanics wise. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. EDIT: Good Catch @Sweet Tooth on the ability name! 8 hours ago, Mycellanious said: Imo Lady J should ignore Terrifying (but not Manipulative or Serene Countenence). She's supposed to go find and slice up the biggest, baddest undead guy. I really like both of these ideas. I think the anti-demise should be discard a card or your demise is ignored (to give the opponent an out and not neuter some keywords that rely on Demise). The ignore terror is fluffy too, but I guess she already has high Wp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatlatinspeakingguy Posted February 27, 2020 Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 I think this idea is horrible. Giving models hard counters to other models crucial abilities is just awful and only decreases the amount of crews which are unplayable under specific circumstances. Currently, Ressurs can't play Molly against TT because of Shenlong. Imagine a world in which you simply can't risk declaring Levi, Hamelin or Yan Lo if your opponent declared the Guild. Some may argue that it might be good for balance, but I am sure that there are better ways to achieve balance than saying "no fun for you" to some players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le_wahou Posted February 27, 2020 Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 36 minutes ago, Da Git said: I really like both of these ideas. I think the anti-demise should be discard a card or your demise is ignored (to give the opponent an out and not neuter some keywords that rely on Demise). The ignore terror is fluffy too, but I guess she already has high Wp. The ignore terror is always nice, but adding this to a 7 WP model is using space on a model that do not really needs it to be functionnal. The anti demise is so strong against some teams that a discard is not really expensive, especially as you will not use this 2-3 times per turn. The marshall already have a lot of counter techs. Adding more might be good for fluff, but not for game balance.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnage Posted February 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2020 3 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said: Imagine a world in which you simply can't risk declaring Levi, Hamelin or Yan Lo if your opponent declared the Guild. Imagine a world in which you can't risk declaring those masters because your opponent declared Ressers or TT. Oh, right, that's already a threat. Countertech is a part of the game. And frankly, any of those masters are, even if Justice just utterly ignored Demise abilities, still doing just fine. Levi is decently capable of just, eating justice in a single activation as long as he can hit 3 times, Hamelin is not going to die in a single round to Justice at which point the blight kicks in, and Yan Lo preemptively hands out his Reliquaries so the only demise that matters here is Yan Lo's, and he has TWO different Take the Hit models in Keyword if you're just that worried about it. Do you loathe Ruthless because it's too good into Manipulative or Terrifying models? How about Armor Piercing triggers? Does Laugh Off bother you because what about all those Lure/Bring It crews? If you don't like the idea, fine, but "countertech is a horrible idea" as a general concept seems to reveal a misunderstanding of how the game works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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