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Meliondor

Pale Rider - What is up with him?

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I read that the Pale Rider is such an awesome model - but why? People call him "unstoppable from turn 2 on". But why?

If I understand him corretly he gets 1 marker per turn number. So turn 2 he got 3 markers in total. Not much you can do with them...it takes until turn 3 until he can use alls his abilities.

To be "unkillable" he needs to waste the markers for his armor effect.

 

So what is making him so good in the experience of people?

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The riders in general tend to be awesome because they essentially have three actions (because their bonus' are so good).

Ride with me also means they can be great for repositioning friendly models.

Ruthless, hard to wound, 9 wounds, solid defensive stats, and movement 7 mean you have an epic front of the card to work with.

Then each rider has a decent to amazing attack on the back of the card. Pneumatic rifle thanks to the trigger is one awesome tool.

Then you throw in one of the best bonus actions out of all the riders (the base heal has so much potential), with the most devastating trigger (2/3/4 irreudicble damage in a 14" circle... PLUS two conditions), and you get a model that can do everything.

It isn't the tankiest thing ever, but when you're that maneuverable, you could survive with no tankiness. Being that maneuverable and tanky is just amazing.

My thoughts anyway (from playing two of the other riders).

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1 hour ago, Meliondor said:

I read that the Pale Rider is such an awesome model - but why? People call him "unstoppable from turn 2 on". But why?

If I understand him corretly he gets 1 marker per turn number. So turn 2 he got 3 markers in total. Not much you can do with them...it takes until turn 3 until he can use alls his abilities.

To be "unkillable" he needs to waste the markers for his armor effect.

 

So what is making him so good in the experience of people?

On turn 1 and 2, you have a high movement model with 14" range. He will not be easily focused by your opponent. He is not really efficient for his cost during these 2 turns. You will probably not even use his markers at this moment because only snipers will be able to get to him.

From turn 3 on, every models able to attack will will be slowed by his pulse. They will receive 2/3/4 + burning each round, while all you rmodels will be healed by 1 or 2. If you have engaged most of the ennemy team, it means that the rider will not be easily threatened, and will keep killing models each round. The irreducible cheatable damage also means that you will be able to get the kill shot on masters/henchman.

This is really a brutal model

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The above,

Plus also the pale rider has a few advantages going his way

  • 12'' gun: He may stay safer than any other rider and still contribute while hoarding tokens (which also mean it'll be harder to presure him to make him burn those tokens
    • Trigger in his gun is nasty and could be renamed to "Diner is served!": Injured + Staggered means that model become a huge target for other models unless his own crew may remove conditions.
  • Armor upgrade: Armor, high defensive stats and H2W combines very very well; getting higher than moderate damage versus him is really hard for most models and Armor is more noticeable versus weak damage (and again this makes easier for him to hoard tokens)
  • Very powerful revel ability: 5 suits is crazy good, Irreducible damage wreck everything, but on top of that slow and burning in a huge pulse makes the other crew highly ineficient (require extra AP to remove those conditions or basically halves the AP from all from non-masters in the pulse and the chip damage from Burning will be noticeable turn after turn); add to that the healing for friendly models (and the fact that you may reapply that slow turn after turn) and you have a game warping ability.
    • Also his 3 and 4 suits are also quite powerful, even if they are a bit eclipsed for the 5 suits trigger (for example: Hooded may move friendly models 3'' for 3 suits; pale rider may make friendly models charge for 4 suits)
  • Killy faction: You can't just rush him and ignore a Perdita or LadyJ positioned to defend him; again this makes easier for him to hoard tokens for those turn 3+ game changing pulses.
  • Good suport in the faction for him: Healing, Shielded, Condition removal, Obeys...

The only dissadvantage for all of this is his min damage 2.

Note this comparison makes more sense for Dead and Hooded that are also combat oriented riders; Mechanical is a more utility rider (very good tho) so that one is harder to compare with the pale rider.

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Still strong. And you does not need to give him llc as he is no longer "hit me with everything you have" Also he can start do stuff t2 instead t3

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8 hours ago, Irritated Walrus said:

He was an awesome model, now he's over costed. 

He is the same cost as every other rider, with a better Revel and decent to great triggers (though weird that the shooting faction horseman gives a bunch of melee actions as his ultimate).

If he feels overcosted, that probably speaks to the strength of other models competing for the slot rather than him specifically. I'd certainly give him a go in Ressers or Neverborn post nerf if I could take him.

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8 hours ago, Irritated Walrus said:

He was an awesome model, now he's over costed. 

TT will trade you Yasunori for him :P

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9 hours ago, Irritated Walrus said:

I have no idea why Yas saw a nerf. 

Honestly, I think it was an issue with auto-blender. Same reason that the ArachnaSwarm got the bat. 4 attacks, without any cost (ie, suit built in), on a non-Master, is probably too much.

Sure, QR is worse than Onslaught, but with Flight, Move 7 and a 50mm base, it's not that difficult to set up blenderization.

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Nerfing a model from a faction that isn’t really all that competitive in the meta right now doesn’t make sense. Guild needs a lot of help. There’s no real identity in the faction. We aren’t the people that can hit the hardest or take the most punishment like last edition, don’t scheme particularly well, so what’s our thing? We don’t really have one. 

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1 hour ago, Irritated Walrus said:

Nerfing a model from a faction that isn’t really all that competitive in the meta right now doesn’t make sense. Guild needs a lot of help. There’s no real identity in the faction. We aren’t the people that can hit the hardest or take the most punishment like last edition, don’t scheme particularly well, so what’s our thing? We don’t really have one. 

All that's left is "do you already have sunk costs from last edition"  and do you like playing the faction the designers aren't really interested in?  

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2 hours ago, Irritated Walrus said:

Nerfing a model from a faction that isn’t really all that competitive in the meta right now doesn’t make sense. Guild needs a lot of help. There’s no real identity in the faction. We aren’t the people that can hit the hardest or take the most punishment like last edition, don’t scheme particularly well, so what’s our thing? We don’t really have one. 

Ok trying to be more positive:. We have possibly the best denial model in the game in the undercover reporter.   Deploy him buried or don't, his version of arson being better than Iggy.    Pale might still be the best rider.  Give it time and we will find out.

We don't have as many built in triggers but maybe we are less dependent on them. We have the best anti bury tech.

Daschel and perdita got significant buffs.  

Most other factions can't match lone Marshall too.  

Have you seen anything short of a master match a severe with a second ram from the thrall?

And you know how much I love traps 

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6 hours ago, Irritated Walrus said:

Nerfing a model from a faction that isn’t really all that competitive in the meta right now doesn’t make sense. Guild needs a lot of help. There’s no real identity in the faction. We aren’t the people that can hit the hardest or take the most punishment like last edition, don’t scheme particularly well, so what’s our thing? We don’t really have one. 

Pre-nerf, our thing was Pale Rider, which is a problem in and of itself.

More helpfully, the issues in Guild are more sweeping and systemic within the faction than just buffing a couple models, though those couple of models did certainly help with their relevant masters. Additionally, this errata was intended to fix outliers, specifically those above the curve. IIRC, they'll be doing another errata in June or so to bring underperforming models up to par, which will likely include significant Guild buffs.

4 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

We don't have as many built in triggers but maybe we are less dependent on them. We have the best anti bury tech.

I fear that's more along the lines of your aforementioned sunk costs than reality. Our damage output is maybe above average, but interesting things come from triggers, including a main mechanic of at least one of our crews (Family Values, Blaze). And then there's still the weirdness from the Death Marshal's build in suit, so even those we have aren't necessarily good.

 

Or I'm just salty that I've not gotten a game in for a few months.

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14 hours ago, Michael Curran said:

What exactly was done to the pale rider and where can the change on the card be found.  Sorry, I was Qurantined & busy painting.

Sorry I can't work out to link on my phone. The waldos weekly the evil has landed has the errata. I think they juggled the revel in conflict triggers. 

EDIT Link

 

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9 minutes ago, Adran said:

Sorry I can't work out to link on my phone. The waldos weekly the evil has landed has the errata. I think they juggled the revel in conflict triggers. 

The charge trigger became the 5 r and lost the ability to charge if engaged but let's you take a ml swing instead (limited by engagement range though) and the pulse damage became the 4, is just 2 irreducible and burning.  No more slow.

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On 3/8/2020 at 5:12 PM, Xekros said:

Or I'm just salty that I've not gotten a game in for a few months.

Gotta get on Vassal man! I'm like 25 games into gg1 at this point.

TBH Dashel may be good enough now to disguise the system problems the faction had.

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