Another "help me choose my faction/master" question and other noob questions

[lillumultipass]

Hi everyone, 

 

I have been dabbling for some time with playing Malifaux and I think I am ready to jump ship. Hence, I am going to ask the usual “what factions/masters are for me?” question. 

Just a bit of background : I tend to like control-grindy kind of games. In Magic the gathering parlance (if that speaks to someone), I was usually playing UW or BUW. I like making my opponent’ s life complicated, doing area attacks, moving models around or controlling them…

I don’t mind having squishier models that have intriguing and original abilities. 

On the other hand, I also love big dudes sometimes (again, in Magic, I loved Green Ramp decks where you cheated big monsters into play). 

 

So, this being said, I did my homework, read some posts, and I have already selected a few that might correspond to what I like. One post that was quite helpful for me was this one  on big : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2287206/malifaux-3rd-edition-third-time-charm

 

I liked how he split factions/masters into different playstyles, although I understand characterisation is always a simplification. Anyhow, I selected : 

 

Schemers : 

Neverborn : pandora, Zoraida

Arcanists : MEi Feng, Colette

 

Summoners : 

Archaists : sandeep

Neverborn : the dreamer

 

The buffers : 

Never born/arcanists : Marcus

Ten thunders : Yan Loo

 

I play a lot of boardgames as well including euro games so I liked his reference to resource management for summoners, a mechanic that I like. 

 

In terms of “cosmetic”, I tend to have varied tastes, but I don’t like zombie-like stuff, and tend to like Japanese oriented stuff or things with elemental, magical beasts…I both like technological stuff like robots or magic. 

 

So there it is. What do you think of the things I have selected ? Any other suggestion ? According to this lists, Arcanists and Neverborn would be my top factions. So, how do I proceed then ? I think having 2 masters per faction is probably a good idea so having models that can be used in both is probably ideal right ? If in Understand correctly, I should start with the core box of the master (if one does exist) and then by the “keyword” box, right ? 

 

Finally, correct me if I am wrong, but there does not seem to be a lot of leeway in building a crew once you have chosen your master. So, it seems that contrary to other wargames (such as, say, Warmachine) the skill in list-building is more to assemble the best crew according to the selected set of strategies/Schemes, right ? But this means that, once you have chosen you faction, you need to have 2-3 masters to have different options. 

 

Totally unrelated, but there seems to be a lot of tokens in malifaux : what do you use to represent them ? I have beads for some stuff, but is there some custom markers for standard conditions for instance ? 

In terms of terrain, do you recommend something in particular ? I have never bought anything from them, but I had looked at some TTCombat terrain and it looked quite good, at a reasonable price. In addition, I would like something that can easily be stored and does not take a huge amount of space. 

 

Thanks for your help. 

 

[Adran]

Hello and welcome

My Advice would be to buy 1 master box first, and play with that for a little bit to get used to the game rules. Yes, in the long term you will probably want to buy more masters in that faction, and its not a bad shout to consider that at this point, but its by no means essential. I don't think there is a wrong master to learn with.

You seem to have decided on Arcanists or Neverborn, of which I would say Arcanists fits the appearance more from what you say (containing beasts, elementals, magic and constructs). But you know best what you like, neverborn is certainly more controlly.

List building I would say still has a lot of leeway. Most masters will stick to their keyword for the bulk of the crew, but you don't have to. You have a whole faction of options, and sometimes that out of keyword model does exactly what you need so its well worth the out of keyword hiring tax. I turn up to games/events, and build the crew fresh each game, and can get a lot of customisation into those crews. I do jump around masters, but I also sometimes plan on taking 1 master regardless and using them for all games (but still customising the lists each time).

The dreamer, for example, has about 115 soulstones of Nightmares to choose from, and almost 100 soulstones of versatile models, to build his 50 ss list, which may contain only 40 ss of models. That's a lot of possible choices without having to look to other keywords (which you can do).

 

Tokens - This depends a lot on the sort of player you are. You WILL need scheme markers, corpse/scrap markers and markers generated by your crew. These are 30, 40 or 50 mm bases (mainly 30mm), with some way of telling what they are. (I have a set from a game that are just numbered, so I can say all markers label 1 are corpses in one game, and all markers labelled 1 are scrap in another game if I needed to. I also have several containing body parts that are just corpse markers).

There are conditions and tokens that some people will use physical tokens they place on the battlefield for. Other people don't (I generally write them on my stat card with dry wipe markers, or similar). Both sides say their way is easier and leads to less confusion, which probably means you just need to find what works for you.

 

Terrain.

You do want a decent amount of terrain on the board. Too little and models that have long ranged abilities will dominate. You can start with cut out shapes that go on the board to count as various terrain (forests/swamps and so forth) and books etc for buildings.  I have a wide range of types and enjoy being able to set up different boards, so I can do a wild west train station, or forested bad lands, or a soustone processing factory or the Victorian architecture of Malifux itself. Mine all lives in boxes to be transported around, and different companies stuff is good for different reasons. There are a lot of nice laser cut wooden sets out there, but I find they are a little harder to transport a lot of the time.

 

In Summary

I could suggest buying the Marcus box (because he is both Arcanist and Neverborn and so if you choose either of those factions to focus on you can use him).

If possible I would try and play 20-30 ss learning games, and so the core box would be playablealone at that point, but most groups play at higher levels, so you may want to buy more models. I've not kept up with M3 releases and re-packaging so I'm not sure what boxes you would want to look for next (My Marcus stuff dates back to his metal box in first ed). Looking for the Versatile model boxes would be very useable for any master in that faction.

The down side to suggesting Marcus is that because he is duel faction, his stuff is spread across both factions, so some of it will only be playable with him if you just focus on 1 faction. As such you might want to look at a different master

Good luck

 

[Mycellanious]

I'd take a look at Raspy if you like area control / grindy games

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

First of all: Welcome to Malifaux. Here are my two cents to the sound advice you got from Adran:

6 hours ago, lillumultipass said:

So there it is. What do you think of the things I have selected ? Any other suggestion ? According to this lists, Arcanists and Neverborn would be my top factions. So, how do I proceed then ? I think having 2 masters per faction is probably a good idea so having models that can be used in both is probably ideal right ? If in Understand correctly, I should start with the core box of the master (if one does exist) and then by the “keyword” box, right ? 

As for Arcanists, Mei Feng, Colette and Sandeep are all strong and very different in terms of gameplay. There is some overlap between Mei and Sandeep in terms of models, and Colette seems to be better using mostly out of keyword and versatile models [edit: although Coryphee duet is a must], so there seems to be no wrong starting point for you.

Powergaming-wise, it would be probably best to start with Sandeep or Colette, as they have both steep but rewarding learning curve. However, Mei needs less purchases outside her core box to be functional even in small games. You have classified Mei as a schemer using terminology from the linked article, but I would rather call her a beater. I would also argue that her crew can be viewed as an equivalent (tout proportions gardees) of MTG ramp deck, as you will overwhelm your opponent with speed and quantity of attacks from turn one if you follow my purchases guide. Speaking of which, Metal Gamins and Metal Golem, Neil Henry and Steam Arachnid Swarms would be my first picks after Mei's core box. Gamins and Golems can be used with Sandeep, and Swarms are awsome in any Arcanist crew.

[Ogid]

First of all, () Welcome to malifaux! 

8 hours ago, lillumultipass said:

Just a bit of background : I tend to like control-grindy kind of games. In Magic the gathering parlance (if that speaks to someone), I was usually playing UW or BUW. I like making my opponent’ s life complicated, doing area attacks, moving models around or controlling them…

I don’t mind having squishier models that have intriguing and original abilities. 

On the other hand, I also love big dudes sometimes (again, in Magic, I loved Green Ramp decks where you cheated big monsters into play). 

mmm... you have a bit of that in both factions:

It's a bit hard to leave some out but you may like these masters:

• Control masters:
  • Pandora (also Zoraida and maybe Marcus) / Rasputina.
• Terrain Control:
  • Euripides, Titania / Rasputina, Kaeris (these crews put some markers in the table that limit the options of the other player, reducing or bloking movement, dealing damage...)
• Schemers (very fast crews or crews with abilities about scheme markers) :
  • Zoraida, Marcus, Lucius, Nekima / Colette, Marcus, Sandeep (Arcanist is more schemy than NVB, any master with mechanical rider + Swarms is very schemy)
• Big dudes (everyone has their big dudes... but killy masters with the biggest dudes)
  • Titania, Nekima, Dreamer, Pandora, / Sandeep, Hoffman, Toni

 

8 hours ago, lillumultipass said:

One post that was quite helpful for me was this one  on big : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2287206/malifaux-3rd-edition-third-time-charm

Also, about that article and my above clasification:

Try not to rank crews as only good at one thing, some crews are more versatile than others, for example; in that article Vicktorias and Shenlong are good "beater" crews, but those are also glass cannon crews that are faster than other listed like Toni Ironsides or Perdita. Those fast crews are more "schemers" than other clasificated as "schemers" like Pandora.

Also mind there is a mixture of crews under "schemers crews". There are different kind of schemes, an schemy crew is colloquially used for crews either very fast (Zipp, Molly, Zoraida, Colette...) or with abilities that make them very efficient at dropping scheme markers and that make harder for the other crew to do the same (Nellie, Lucius). However there are schemes and strategy that benefice from controlling an area, in those the "bubble" crews (crews very dangerous when several models are together; usually slow crews but not always) are more "schemy", those are crews like Pandora, Toni or Hoffman.

And about managing resources... not only Summoners needs to do that; in fact there are non-summoner crews with more resource management than summoners (in general a summoner only need to have ready 1 big card each turn and maybe a SS to summon; that's all). From Arc/Nvb for example Pandora have a strong condition/hand management, Hoffman has his own game with the power tokens, crews relying in terrain need to balance between using that terrain and getting the job done... 

8 hours ago, lillumultipass said:

So, how do I proceed then ? I think having 2 masters per faction is probably a good idea so having models that can be used in both is probably ideal right ? If in Understand correctly, I should start with the core box of the master (if one does exist) and then by the “keyword” box, right ?

I'd say pick 1 faction and focus in that one; focusing in one faction gives you more playability for less money (each model you get, it's a model you may use with any master; non counting dual faction masters of course). If you are not sure at all, then starting with Marcus as Adran suggested is a good idea to start playing and learn about the game; but before getting his box be sure you like his playstile, he isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Usually to start the best idea is Core box + 1 keyword box, but depending on the crew Core box + Versatile box may be also be a good choice.

8 hours ago, lillumultipass said:

Finally, correct me if I am wrong, but there does not seem to be a lot of leeway in building a crew once you have chosen your master. So, it seems that contrary to other wargames (such as, say, Warmachine) the skill in list-building is more to assemble the best crew according to the selected set of strategies/Schemes, right ? But this means that, once you have chosen you faction, you need to have 2-3 masters to have different options. 

This depends a lot on the player. There are players dead set on playing one all rounded list (and some have even got first position in events with those lists), others that use a few masters and lists and don't like to go out of keyword (OOK) and others that like to pick different masters and go wild with OOK models. In general having 2 or 3 masters is a good idea to have options, but with a versatile keyword decent at everything and a few well selected OOK and versatiles you may play only 1 master. Also take in count there is a healthy amount of "redundancy" in each faction, you may tackle a particular pool of strategy/schemes with different masters. The more you own and know how to play the better of course, but it's not necessary to own every master and model to be competitive.

 

I'd start browsing the cards (Mobile App or Web browser) and reading topics about the masters you like in the NVB and ARC forums (specially Tacticas if there is one about that master), try to read M3E threads, not M2E. After that you should have an idea about which faction and masters you like more.

Hope it helps!

[Maniacal_cackle]

Mei Feng is both arcanist and ten thunders, so may be a good one to start with to leave your options open.

I usually recommend buying a core box, getting a feel for the game, then swapping factions if you need to. No sense committing too early (I've swapped factions twice this edition, and ultimately think it worked out well).

Molly and ressers would be high on my list of recommendations but you don't like their aesthetic.

Dreamer definitely has a great grindy, long-game feel to him. Zoraida is one of the most 'control' feeling masters in the faction (since you literally control enemy models). Pandora is great for stripping options away from the enemy but I personally haven't enjoyed her.

Neverborn is overall a great faction, but I worry you may not have enough scheme control with them other than maybe Iggy or Mimic (it is one of the reasons I've moved away from the faction a bit).

I don't know much about Arcanists to say more about them.

[Mycellanious]

Probably should have said in my initial post, that I pretty much solo Mei Feng, so let me know if you have questions about the Foundry specifically

[lillumultipass]

Thanks everyone for all the interesting advice ! It is indeed not easy to select a faction/master at first because there are so many possibilities. 

But, I think I have settled for a combo Sandeep + Colette for now and will see how things go afterwards. Neverborn and Ten Thunders are also factions that I will probably delve into at some point.

Ressers look good on paper but I am not really keen on the models, so I will see. 

thanks again  ! I will probably be back with further questions 😉 (notably rules questions about LOS as I found the rules about shadow a bit...arcane). 

[lillumultipass]

One question already : what's the best way to print stat cards I don't have ? I tried to insert images from the pdfs I had downloaded into Word, the idea being to have each side for each stat card not next to each other and be able to print on both sides (recto verso) directly and then to lamintate the cards.  The problem is, when I insert an image selecting a PDF it automatically chooses the recto of the stat card and I haven't found a way to get the verso (unless I do a screen capture of each card but it is cumbersome). 

Another option is to merge PDFs but then the 2 sides are next to each other so that I cannot print on both sides. 

Any suggestions or other way to do so ? 

And another one : are there good battle reports (be it text or video) for beginners where the players explain their thoughts process ? 

thanks ! 

[Ogid]

7 hours ago, lillumultipass said:

Thanks everyone for all the interesting advice ! It is indeed not easy to select a faction/master at first because there are so many possibilities. 

But, I think I have settled for a combo Sandeep + Colette for now and will see how things go afterwards. Neverborn and Ten Thunders are also factions that I will probably delve into at some point.

Glad to help!

Mind Sandeep has a HUGE model pool that overlap with other masters, planning well your purchases is important. For Sandeep I'd get Kandara box and wind gamin box as first purchases (after the Core box of course). For Colette the coryphee box is a good first purchase. After that you have several choices, getting Golem+Gamins of one element for Sandeep (mind for Fire Gamins you have to get Kaeris) or some versatiles (miner, rider, emissary...) that will work well with both.

Colette+Sandeep don't have a strong synergy (Rasputina, Kaeris, Mei-Feng and Hoffman are the ones with more synergy with Sandeep), but some Fire models could fit in a Colette crew as their Henchmans inflict Burning (and one of them is even dual keyword). If you like her, Sandeep + Colette + Kaeris may be a good starting trio of masters with good synergies between them.

Just some ideas, if you like more other models/masters go for them

[touchdown]

9 hours ago, lillumultipass said:

Thanks everyone for all the interesting advice ! It is indeed not easy to select a faction/master at first because there are so many possibilities. 

But, I think I have settled for a combo Sandeep + Colette for now and will see how things go afterwards. Neverborn and Ten Thunders are also factions that I will probably delve into at some point.

Ressers look good on paper but I am not really keen on the models, so I will see. 

thanks again  ! I will probably be back with further questions 😉 (notably rules questions about LOS as I found the rules about shadow a bit...arcane). 

In my experience if you think a crew is cool, you'll figure out how to play them more often than thinking a playstyle fits you and convincing yourself they're cool (of course if a crew is both that's easiest).

[lillumultipass]

20 hours ago, Ogid said:

Glad to help!

Mind Sandeep has a HUGE model pool that overlap with other masters, planning well your purchases is important. For Sandeep I'd get Kandara box and wind gamin box as first purchases (after the Core box of course). For Colette the coryphee box is a good first purchase. After that you have several choices, getting Golem+Gamins of one element for Sandeep (mind for Fire Gamins you have to get Kaeris) or some versatiles (miner, rider, emissary...) that will work well with both.

Colette+Sandeep don't have a strong synergy (Rasputina, Kaeris, Mei-Feng and Hoffman are the ones with more synergy with Sandeep), but some Fire models could fit in a Colette crew as their Henchmans inflict Burning (and one of them is even dual keyword). If you like her, Sandeep + Colette + Kaeris may be a good starting trio of masters with good synergies between them.

Just some ideas, if you like more other models/masters go for them

Thanks I will have a look at Kaeris then. I was considering Raspy as well. I have just received the sandeep core box and I got the Arcanists faction book to boot as well ! This will give me a better idea of the faction. 

Btw, what do you think of faction books ? Are they useless ? The stat cards are already present elsewhere, so that it is mostly for the stories. 

Finally, another question : where can I find strategy articles/posts for beginners ? I have found tacticas for each master, which look quite interesting, but is already quite involved. I found this discussion :

and the one mentioned in a reply about crew selection and it looks great. But are there more beginner-friendly ones about in-game play and concepts (like hand management, schemes and strategies, assigning roles to your crew members, deployment, action points management...) ? All links are appreciated ! thanks. 

[Ogid]

4 hours ago, lillumultipass said:

Thanks I will have a look at Kaeris then. I was considering Raspy as well. I have just received the sandeep core box and I got the Arcanists faction book to boot as well ! This will give me a better idea of the faction. 

Take the above with a pinch of salt tho. If you like more Rasputina then going for Sandeep ice golem box and then Raspy is another good "purchase path"; Colette may include some fire models but it's not an standard crew by any means, it'd give you some flexibility but Colette with just keyword and versatiles is a very good crew.

4 hours ago, lillumultipass said:

Btw, what do you think of faction books ? Are they useless ? The stat cards are already present elsewhere, so that it is mostly for the stories. 

Depends on the player... it's not necessary to play, but some players like them for the images or the lore.

4 hours ago, lillumultipass said:

Finally, another question : where can I find strategy articles/posts for beginners ? I have found tacticas for each master, which look quite interesting, but is already quite involved. I found this discussion :

and the one mentioned in a reply about crew selection and it looks great. But are there more beginner-friendly ones about in-game play and concepts (like hand management, schemes and strategies, assigning roles to your crew members, deployment, action points management...) ? All links are appreciated ! thanks

Buried in the forums unfortunately... try to check the more basic threads... let me check if I may find some:

https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/149012-how-to-git-gud/

https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/148128-an-introduction-series-for-new-players/

https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/147751-how-do-the-schemes-and-strategies-affect-your-crew-building/

https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/147222-does-malifaux-have-a-pay-to-win-problem/

https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/148177-best-choices-for-each-deployment-type/

Hope it helps!