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Staggered vs Marcus


Mycellanious

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3 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

So can a Staggered model be Obeyed to move?

By an enemy obey, definitely.

By a friendly obey... That is making me rethink my first answer.

If you obey a model to kill another, the obeyed model gets the credit (and is doing the killing).

So is the obeyed model doing the moving? Sounds reasonable, but not sure what rules to back it up with.

So I'm not sure about the original question either.

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1 hour ago, Mycellanious said:

Does the wording, "Target may move," as opposed to, "Move the Target," change anything?

No. What matters is the source of the move. When the source is an action on a different model it won't work. When the source is an action such as the walk action that is declared by the staggered model it is fine. 

The difference in wording you have will just change who make the decisions about the move, not the source of the move. 

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Definitely, It can't be moved with the action, but it can move with the trigger.

This is a simmilar case to a model with Planted Roots / Laught Off. Those abilities prevent enemy effects (instead of friendly in this case), but those don't prevent an obeyed model to move.

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1 hour ago, diki said:

What would allow an action generated from an effect to not be considered an extension of that effect?

Have a look at the rules for Killed where the rules describe who gets credit for a model being killed.  There’s no chain of attribution.

If a model performs an action, it is credited with all of the immediate effects of that action.  If a model resolves an ability, it is credited with all of the immediate effects of that action.  If an action or an ability causes another action or ability to resolve, those generated actions and abilities are credited to whatever resolves them, not what caused them.

For instance:  Model A uses Bring It on model B, causing Model B to move up to and attack Model A.  If B’s attack kills’s A, that kill is credited to B (not A, the model whose action caused the attack).

If Model A is Barbaros (who has Black Blood), then you get the situation of:

  • Barabos causes the movement of Model B.  Because that movement is specified in Bring It.
  • Model B is responsible/credited for the damage that its attack specifies.  But that damage trigger’s Barabaros’s Black Blood.
  • Barabaros is responsible/credited for the damage that Black Blood causes, because it is his own ability.

Look at the Pathfinder’s Hunting Traps Ability.  The ability causes any number of Mechanical Traps to take the Walk Action.  If any of those traps have Staggered, they’ll perform their Walk actions at -2 Mv but still move.

Because Walk isn’t an “other friendly model” effect.  

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