Mycellanious Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 Staggered: "This model suffers -2Mv and may not be moved by the effects of other friendly models. Call of the Wild: Target may move a number of inches up to its move. Hunter's Call Trigger: "when resolving, instead of moving, the target may take the Charge Action" Which of these, if either, does Staggered prevent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 solkan Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 The long standing precedent is that if the model itself is taking an action, and that action has a movement effect (like Walk or Charge, or whatever), then the model is moving itself, whether or not some other model is controlling or caused the action. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Maniacal_cackle Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 There is some ambiguity as to what an ability is 'from', but I read it as neither of those abilities working. The model is moving itself, but the source of that move is the effect of a friendly model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Mycellanious Posted February 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said: There is some ambiguity as to what an ability is 'from', but I read it as neither of those abilities working. The model is moving itself, but the source of that move is the effect of a friendly model. So can a Staggered model be Obeyed to move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Adran Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 Certainly the first one, but I would say not the trigger, because Marcus doesn't move you then, the charge action does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Adran Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Mycellanious said: So can a Staggered model be Obeyed to move? I would say yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Maniacal_cackle Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mycellanious said: So can a Staggered model be Obeyed to move? By an enemy obey, definitely. By a friendly obey... That is making me rethink my first answer. If you obey a model to kill another, the obeyed model gets the credit (and is doing the killing). So is the obeyed model doing the moving? Sounds reasonable, but not sure what rules to back it up with. So I'm not sure about the original question either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Mycellanious Posted February 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, Adran said: Certainly the first one, but I would say not the trigger, because Marcus doesn't move you then, the charge action does. Does the wording, "Target may move," as opposed to, "Move the Target," change anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 santaclaws01 Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, Mycellanious said: Does the wording, "Target may move," as opposed to, "Move the Target," change anything? No. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Adran Posted February 15, 2020 Report Share Posted February 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Mycellanious said: Does the wording, "Target may move," as opposed to, "Move the Target," change anything? No. What matters is the source of the move. When the source is an action on a different model it won't work. When the source is an action such as the walk action that is declared by the staggered model it is fine. The difference in wording you have will just change who make the decisions about the move, not the source of the move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ogid Posted February 16, 2020 Report Share Posted February 16, 2020 Definitely, It can't be moved with the action, but it can move with the trigger. This is a simmilar case to a model with Planted Roots / Laught Off. Those abilities prevent enemy effects (instead of friendly in this case), but those don't prevent an obeyed model to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 diki Posted February 16, 2020 Report Share Posted February 16, 2020 What would allow an action generated from an effect to not be considered an extension of that effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 solkan Posted February 16, 2020 Report Share Posted February 16, 2020 1 hour ago, diki said: What would allow an action generated from an effect to not be considered an extension of that effect? Have a look at the rules for Killed where the rules describe who gets credit for a model being killed. There’s no chain of attribution. If a model performs an action, it is credited with all of the immediate effects of that action. If a model resolves an ability, it is credited with all of the immediate effects of that action. If an action or an ability causes another action or ability to resolve, those generated actions and abilities are credited to whatever resolves them, not what caused them. For instance: Model A uses Bring It on model B, causing Model B to move up to and attack Model A. If B’s attack kills’s A, that kill is credited to B (not A, the model whose action caused the attack). If Model A is Barbaros (who has Black Blood), then you get the situation of: Barabos causes the movement of Model B. Because that movement is specified in Bring It. Model B is responsible/credited for the damage that its attack specifies. But that damage trigger’s Barabaros’s Black Blood. Barabaros is responsible/credited for the damage that Black Blood causes, because it is his own ability. Look at the Pathfinder’s Hunting Traps Ability. The ability causes any number of Mechanical Traps to take the Walk Action. If any of those traps have Staggered, they’ll perform their Walk actions at -2 Mv but still move. Because Walk isn’t an “other friendly model” effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
Mycellanious
Staggered: "This model suffers -2Mv and may not be moved by the effects of other friendly models.
Call of the Wild: Target may move a number of inches up to its move.
Hunter's Call Trigger: "when resolving, instead of moving, the target may take the Charge Action"
Which of these, if either, does Staggered prevent?
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