Marcus?!?

[extremor]

On 11/21/2020 at 6:31 PM, Ogid said:

I don't want to discourage you, go ahead and play him; I do and he is super fun and one of my favourite masters. But mind his crew is misleading, his models and upgrades screams "ruthless hunter" but his playstile is closer to Colette/Nelly than to Nekima, at least in this faction; in ARC he can be more agressive. To win with him in NVB you need to abuse his mobility, the condition play and mobility shenanigans that NVB beast has

After a few games with Marcus I totally agree. He has become my second colette - just a NVB one.  I dance through the wilderness (severe) and only attack if I get the kill. Preferably models that have not activated this turn. And use accomplice if necessary. 
on sunday I took out Leveticus 5:1 (ok my opponent didn’t know Marcus at all). It was soooo much fun to score, deny and retreat. 

[extremor]

I‘m looking forward into playing more adze/WotW due to the changes to distracted. With camouflage they seem extremely annoying now. 

[Ogid]

Yep, these changes make those 2 models better, but the Focused+2 limit is a bit hit to Cojo and he still has a ton of weaknesses... we'll see. Maybe after the Focuslypse Marcus is a bit more playable.

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 hours ago, Ogid said:

Yep, these changes make those 2 models better, but the Focused+2 limit is a bit hit to Cojo and he still has a ton of weaknesses... we'll see. Maybe after the Focuslypse Marcus is a bit more playable.

Ewwww, yeah, that's a big hit to that ability.

I've got Neverborn Marcus for the draft league, so will be brushing up on him. This thread is very useful!

[extremor]

6 hours ago, Ogid said:

Yep, these changes make those 2 models better, but the Focused+2 limit is a bit hit to Cojo and he still has a ton of weaknesses... we'll see. Maybe after the Focuslypse Marcus is a bit more playable.

Maybe I will try leaving cojo at home once in a while. Would miss the toss to get Marcus up the board first turn, but 10ss was always a huge price... dunno 🤷🏻‍♀️ but I like the idea of having adze + wotw or 2x wotw... if only you could use more than 2 camouflage.

[Ogid]

2 hours ago, extremor said:

Maybe I will try leaving cojo at home once in a while. Would miss the toss to get Marcus up the board first turn, but 10ss was always a huge price... dunno 🤷🏻‍♀️ but I like the idea of having adze + wotw or 2x wotw... if only you could use more than 2 camouflage.

If agression is needed, Cojo is still the best for the role; but now we'll have to have a Wotw following him around to feed him markers (which isn't that bad taking in count you may use the aura with the mele attack pushes). I'd also consider Hinamatsu now more seriously.

Those 2 might be more reliable now or at least eat up more resources if killed in mele. The bandersnatch is another one that got an advantage with this change as she inflicts distracted when burying.

8 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Ewwww, yeah, that's a big hit to that ability.

I've got Neverborn Marcus for the draft league, so will be brushing up on him. This thread is very useful!

Nice to hear! please share your experiences later

[Maniacal_cackle]

52 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Nice to hear! please share your experiences later

Will do! I have 6 more rounds so not sure which round I'll use him, but the next two are...

Wedge:

Break the Line

Bait and Switch

Detonate charges

Outflank

Catch and Release

Vendetta

Standard:

Turf War

Assassinate

Breakthrough

Claim Jump

Let them bleed

Outflank

 

Which I assume he can shenangian some of these.

[Ogid]

From these 2, the second one is the best for Marcus by far (Wedge is terrible with Marcus and the strat will cause an early clash in the centerline that won't benefice you... the schemes aren't bad but aren't sceptionally good for him neither) and it depends a lot on who you are going to face because the second one it's not a perfect Marcus pool; there are masters that can destroy him there.

Turf Wars isn't the best strategy for him but isn't unplayabe (Symbols and Leylines are way better); Marcus can reinforce quickly different areas of the board; just beware of masters that can kill your models quickly because that's other way to play this and some of his models are pure glass.

Assassinate might be a trap the other player falls for, they using resources chasing Marcus is good for you; getting the kill on an enemy Master with Marcus is possible but it needs an specific list and also outplaying the other one (or reckless play from the other side) so I'd rule this one out for your team. Breakthrough and Outflank are among his better schemes and Claim Jump might be doable depending on who you are facing (at least getting 1 cheeky point by racing the choosen model to the center should possible). Let them bleed is kind of neutral for him, the other player may be tempted to leave your models alive a bit longer to score this, that's good for you; and you have some control over it by shapechanging Myranda... but I wouldn't pick this versus most crews... with Marcus you either go for a quick kill or just control the other player with conditions and egagement ranges and leave him alone; long bloody brawls aren't his strenght.

Picking Breakthrough + Outflank it might work in that one, but again depending on who you are facing. If you can, save him for a game with either Symbols or Leylines, ideally Corner deployment (Standard as second best) and with good schemes for him.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Thanks, very helpful! There'll be another corner deploymnet next cycle, so I might save him for that.

Definitely won't go for assassinate. It is a fun casual league where we are all playing new masters, and I don't want to take away someone's experience of whatever master they ended up with xD

[Deathknight Tactica]

On 2/11/2020 at 10:01 AM, Mrbedlam said:

Hey everyone, I know he isn't the best master in the faction but someone has to be running Marcus somewhere.  He seems fun and everything in his keyword is fast and killy. Plus Inhuman Reflexes on Cerberus seems like a huge middle finger to your opponent. What is your Marcus tech and when are you running him? 

I played him as a second master to a Zoraida leader once. The game was so one sided(in my favor) that I basically refuse to do it again. 

[extremor]

1 hour ago, Ogid said:

Breakthrough and Outflank are among his better schemes and Claim Jump might be doable

Definitely, absolutely and totally agreed...!!! Cats, adze, whisps and others are fast enough to get into enemy deployment and via leap/ambush can easily drop 2 markers each round. 
Claim jump is cojos beloved. Rude sight language for the win. 

[Ogid]

On 4/24/2021 at 11:54 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Thanks, very helpful! There'll be another corner deploymnet next cycle, so I might save him for that.

Definitely won't go for assassinate. It is a fun casual league where we are all playing new masters, and I don't want to take away someone's experience of whatever master they ended up with xD

Marcus is a good master to play versus new players; it's easy to just focus on scoring instead of killing everything in sight and new players won't tipically go out of their way to counterpick him into mysery.

On 4/24/2021 at 12:54 PM, Deathknight Tactica said:

I played him as a second master to a Zoraida leader once. The game was so one sided(in my favor) that I basically refuse to do it again. 

I'd love to see his SS cost reduced and more SS moved into the totem just for this kind of synergies; that's hardly a meta strategy but can be fun and useful in the right game.

On 4/24/2021 at 12:59 PM, extremor said:

Definitely, absolutely and totally agreed...!!! Cats, adze, whisps and others are fast enough to get into enemy deployment and via leap/ambush can easily drop 2 markers each round. 
Claim jump is cojos beloved. Rude sight language for the win. 

Yep, however in the pool that was posted above the strategy might be problematic... those models aren't the sturdiest and the other player may deny the schemes AND the strategy by killing those.

In Turf Wars some of those might need to be replaced for things like the Grootslang, the Scorpious, Bears... less nimble models but still able to scheme and harder to kill.

Cojo works well in claim jump, but there are match ups where Marcus can't try to contest the center and that marks him even as a bigger objective that he already is.

[extremor]

13 hours ago, Ogid said:

Cojo works well in claim jump, but there are match ups where Marcus can't try to contest the center and that marks him even as a bigger objective that he already is.

Yes true. He has been ripped to shreds in several games of mine. Most often when trying to claim the center. He is an ape after all, no turtle so his fragility is justified. More so since he also ripped enemy models apart with ease. But focus +5 first turn is now gone...

I think claim jump will be left aside more often and more mobility and marker based schemes will become more popular to me. 
therefor I love his purple side. Adze, wotw, groot and spider duo will be more useful  now, I think. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Nevermind, I forgot Changelings can't attach upgrades xD

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just had my first game with him!

• Marcus & Jack
• Cojo with inhuman reflexes
• Myranda with inhuman reflexes
• Cerberus
• Adze
• Bandersnatch

I really liked the inhuman reflexes. Combined with things like butterfly jump, stealth, disguised, armor, and heals, even my terrible play kept the models alive (though half the time I forgot about Scamper).

Myranda seems like an absolute beast (even though she isn't one 😜 ). At all times she can provide what the crew needs. I reckon it'd take me another 20+ games to get the hang of playing her really well, but she seems good. Especially since she is up one upgrade the whole game compared to other options (since she can attach one turn 1 herself).

I liked the approach of super-charging two models with upgrades and letting everything else be optional.

Bandersnatch was... Okay. Built in onslaught was pretty weak, but as soon as it is in combat it dies (even when buried). I could see try making Bandersnatch the one that is super-charged over Myranda, but she just seems better (especially as she can shift into Bandersnatch if she needs to).

Adze died pretty quickly, but I was pretty bad at using it correctly.

I half think the correct build is probably two key pieces (like Cojo + Myranda), maybe an order initiate for support, and then take the strong Neverborn Versatiles. EDIT: you could of course even just have Marcus upgrade himself and be a bad Yan Lo? xD

Final note: the entire crew being unimpeded is so good xD

EDIT2: Oh, the sabretooth kitty was amazing! Definitely like it as an 8 stone expendable model that HAS to be answered. Not sure I'd supercharge it in neverborn (maybe play Arcanists if you want super-charged kitties).

[extremor]

I was thinking of a little more card draw in my Marcus builds and came up with the following build - what do you think? 
 

Marcus Jogapants New gG (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Marcus
Totem(s):
  Jackalope
Hires:
  Hinamatsu
  Myranda
  The Scorpius
  Order Initiate 2
    Inhuman Reflexes
  Will o' the Wisp
    Ancient Pact
  Will o' the Wisp 2
    Ancient Pact
 

the wisps go scheming and walking on flanks sometimes trying to lure an opponent out of position. May work with outflank, spread, turf war, break the line, catch n Release ... 

marcus, scorpius and Order initiate pair up and become a thread to the center. With initiate being quite a damage dealer through blade rush, stampede in combination with call of the wild and accomplice From Marcus or Myranda... 

initiate/Marcus/Myranda also letting me draw cards...

myranda and Hinamatsu are used wherever needed... can also be replaced by kitty, rider, weaver,  groot or whatever needed. 
 

drawing 2 cards for AP and 2-3 cards through primal domain -sometimes more... 

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 hours ago, extremor said:

I was thinking of a little more card draw in my Marcus builds and came up with the following build - what do you think? 
 

Marcus Jogapants New gG (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Marcus
Totem(s):
  Jackalope
Hires:
  Hinamatsu
  Myranda
  The Scorpius
  Order Initiate 2
    Inhuman Reflexes
  Will o' the Wisp
    Ancient Pact
  Will o' the Wisp 2
    Ancient Pact
 

the wisps go scheming and walking on flanks sometimes trying to lure an opponent out of position. May work with outflank, spread, turf war, break the line, catch n Release ... 

marcus, scorpius and Order initiate pair up and become a thread to the center. With initiate being quite a damage dealer through blade rush, stampede in combination with call of the wild and accomplice From Marcus or Myranda... 

initiate/Marcus/Myranda also letting me draw cards...

myranda and Hinamatsu are used wherever needed... can also be replaced by kitty, rider, weaver,  groot or whatever needed. 
 

drawing 2 cards for AP and 2-3 cards through primal domain -sometimes more... 

AP is absolutely brilliant.

But I would worry about the approach with Wisps. They are so squishy that they can be single activationed by lot of things (unless you give them camo), and they will be super high priority targets for the enemy?

[Corwin]

9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

 you could of course even just have Marcus upgrade himself and be a bad Yan Lo? 

I tried this one of my first games with him, unfortunately when he started his activation he discards all mutation upgrades on him and puts one on so it's very AP intensive for a one activation buff.

[extremor]

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

AP is absolutely brilliant.

But I would worry about the approach with Wisps. They are so squishy that they can be single activationed by lot of things (unless you give them camo), and they will be super high priority targets for the enemy?

Of course they get the camo. A few opponents described em wisps as a pain to take down before the distracted changes. So I wanna try em out and I got good results from dubble changelings with AP in my Lucius crew... but thanks for your thoughts, I will share my experience...

[Morgan Vening]

12 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

• Myranda with inhuman reflexes

Myranda seems like an absolute beast (even though she isn't one 😜 ). At all times she can provide what the crew needs. I reckon it'd take me another 20+ games to get the hang of playing her really well, but she seems good. Especially since she is up one upgrade the whole game compared to other options (since she can attach one turn 1 herself).

I'm so frikkin dumb. Learn to read the cards, Morgan!

For some reason, I had it stuck in my head that she got to keep Mutation Upgrades, but lost any others. But it just says Upgrades.

Which means if she turns into a Minion Beast, she gets the benefit of Mobile Warrior too.

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

I'm so frikkin dumb. Learn to read the cards, Morgan!

For some reason, I had it stuck in my head that she got to keep Mutation Upgrades, but lost any others. But it just says Upgrades.

Which means if she turns into a Minion Beast, she gets the benefit of Mobile Warrior too.

I didn't even think of that, epic!

[extremor]

I took the following list into ullix yesterday and it went well 

 

Marcus Jogapants gG2.1 (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
  Marcus
Totem(s):
  Jackalope
Hires:
  Myranda
  The Scorpius
  Order Initiate
    Inhuman Reflexes
  Grootslang
  Will o' the Wisp
    Ancient Pact
  Will o' the Wisp 2
    Ancient Pact

after the first turn it looked like this:

Marcus Jogapants gG2.1 (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 6
Leader:
  Marcus + Feathered Wings
Totem(s):
  Jackalope + Serrated Teeth and Claws
Hires:
  Myranda + Serrated Teeth and Claws
  The Scorpius + Armored Plates
  Order Initiate + Feathered Wings and Formidable Horns and Inhuman Reflexes
  Grootslang + Armored Plates
  Will o' the Wisp + Natural Camouflage and Ancient Pact
  Will o' the Wisp 2 + Natural Camouflage and  Ancient Pact

the mvp was the Order Initiate who delt lots and lots of damage to those pigs. We played turf war and the damage was put to good use swapping markers back to neutral. WotW were good schemers and together with the groot manages to score breakthrough and research mission twice. My plan to walk wotw along the edges and make it hard for the opponent to encounter them was enough to keep both alive till round 4... Scorpius died pretty early due to armor piercing triggers. Wasn’t the best choice I think... I was a bit worried not fielding Cojo but it went well and I think I will try again. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Wow, I did not realise Scorpius is stat 7. Throw in that armor 2, and seems like a suped up Necrotic Machine xD

Definitely have to try this!

The inhuman reflexes on Initiate over Myranda wouldn't have occured to me either. So I'm keen on trying your tech!

[extremor]

13 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Wow, I did not realise Scorpius is stat 7. Throw in that armor 2, and seems like a suped up Necrotic Machine xD

Definitely have to try this!

The inhuman reflexes on Initiate over Myranda wouldn't have occured to me either. So I'm keen on trying your tech!

The order initiate buffed up like this is really a force:

stampede (1 dmg), blade rush (1 dmg), charge through, and buying a [+] to Duell and chimera strike trigger combined with a focus mostly results in 7 dmg in one hit. 
BUT: the best thing about it is combining this with accomplice (Marcus or Myranda)... activate M or M to call the wild and charge with the initiate. Then afterwards accomplice into initiate activation and go nuts. Ok most of the time your initiate will be exposed afterwards but such a move has very high damage potential. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, extremor said:

The order initiate buffed up like this is really a force:

stampede (1 dmg), blade rush (1 dmg), charge through, and buying a [+] to Duell and chimera strike trigger combined with a focus mostly results in 7 dmg in one hit. 
BUT: the best thing about it is combining this with accomplice (Marcus or Myranda)... activate M or M to call the wild and charge with the initiate. Then afterwards accomplice into initiate activation and go nuts. Ok most of the time your initiate will be exposed afterwards but such a move has very high damage potential. 

Awesome Such a cool crew!