Dreamer Crew for each Strat

[SEV]

Hi everyone.

 

I'm a new player and I'm still overwhelmed by the level of customization in this game.

In your opinion, is it possible to adapt a Dreamer crew to each strategy? What is the best configuration (unlimited access to models, can multi-masters if necessary) and why?

BTW I know that I can switch crew, but for now I would like to master one master in each strategy (even if it slightly suboptimal). 

 

Thank!

 

[Adran]

In my opinion, it is very possible to field a dreamer crew that has a good chance in each strategy. 

I'm afraid I normally create my lists fresh at the table to take into account schemes, enemy and table layout, so I don't have stock ones to suggest. If no-one else suggests any I'll try and make some up for you in a day or two.

[melkore]

A good way to try to break down a keyword is to look at the strategies and figure out what you need to accomplish them.

My core Dreamer list starts with

• Dreamer
  • Ancient Pact
• Lord Chompy Bits
  • Inhuman Reflexes
• Serena
• Daydream 1
• Daydream 2

From there I build according to schemes and strategies with the remaining 32 stones.  I like to keep at least 5 stones so in reality 27 stones to build the rest of the crew.

Plant Explosives - You need to hire models that can get across the center line and drop a marker. 

• Models like Coppelius and Widow Weaver are great at that since you can't attach bombs from summons, but they can take them from models they  kill so a Stitched or Alp popping up next to a minion with a bomb might be an easy bomb to grab then drop on the opponent's side.

Reckoning - My least favorite for Dreamer.  You have to score more points by killing opponents, so you have to be careful what you throw in to your opponent to make sure you aren't giving up points. 

• Summoning Daydreams are good as a distraction but they don't have an engagement range to keep models in place. They are insignificant so they don't count towards the strategy if they die. 
• The Carver can get up to 4/4/6 with a in the duel with a stat 7 attach or abuse it's  execute trigger to drain their resources or kill models for free Reckoning Points. Breath of Fire adds burning and blasts to wear down more models.  Bonus action to hand out stunned and misery triggers to wear down armored opponents with multiple forms of damage.  
• Serena to keep models alive but she's a staple in all my Dreamer lists.

Turf War - Flipping markers and holding territories can be tough for squishier Nightmare models, you may need to hire out of keyword, dipping in to the awesome Versatile models we have. 

• Hinamatsu for example slices up models nicely to flip markers to neutral and has surprising range with Rush.  Not to mention Armor is uncommon in Neverborn so is unlikely to be teched against.  They can use soulstones to keep them alive as well.

Cursed Idols - Nightmare is pretty good here staying in keyword

• Dreamer is pretty good here.  Summoning models where your opponent goes.  You'll have Pact on Dreamer anyhow giving you +1 to initiative helping you dictate where idol markers go,
• Serena can top off models that push markers.
• Schemey models like Coppelius and Widow Weaver also shine getting across the board easily and push markers.  WW can also summon off of dead constructs so hiring some Wicked Dolls to turn in to Stitched can be a good plan to get cheap stealth models to idol markers and punt them as far as possible, then convert them to stronger models.

 

[Ogid]

Dreamer is a good pick if you want to only play one master. His weaker strategy would be Reckoning, but still doable with the right comp.

As said above, who you are facing and the schemes is important when building a crew. I'm going to use a core of Serena + 3 Daydreams with not more minions in all crews that is something that should work well in most games. There are a lot of other posible configurations; don't be afraid to try different things:

• Reckoning: Dreamer, LCB (IR), Nekima (IR), Serena, Daydream (AP), Daydream (AP), Daydream. 9SS (a variation for this list with 2 Daydreams instead of 3: Drop 1 Daydream (AP) and 2 SS to include 1 Black Blood Shaman)
• Idols: Dreamer, LCB (IR), Teddy (IR), Vasilisa, Serena, Daydream (AP), Daydream (AP), Daydream. 7SS // The Reckoning list with Nekima may also work well here.
• Turf Wars: Dreamer, LCB (IR), Teddy (IR), Serena, Coppelius, Daydream (AP), Daydream, Daydream. 8SS
• Plant Explosives: Dreamer, LCB (IR), WW, Bandersnatch, Serena, Daydream (AP), Daydream, Daydream. 8SS

In a nutshell:

• Reckoning: Low model count with sturdy and dangerous models to not give up points easily and being killy is important; high cache to both defend and attack. Daydreams are great for being insignificant, they give you LD and won't give up easy points.
• Idols: Also low model count and double AP to get initiative and be able to select where the idols drops. Models with self-sustain are good. Mele range 2 are good to defend markers. Teddy may reduce your model count if needed at the same time that heal himself.
• Turf Wars: A good mix between models able to act on their own, combat and mobility is needed.  Mele range 2 are good to defend markers.
• Plant Explosives: Mobility > Punch. WW + Bandersnatch can handle the strategy by themselves.

Other dreamer styles:

• High minion: Cool lists, but not in all matches as they are way more vulnerable early.
• Stitches heavy crew: Gamble your life is powerful, but it'll suffer versus some crews and will reduce your LDs as you'll be saving high cards for him.
• Puppets: Vasilisa, Hinamatsu and dolls works very well with dreamer (WW may use scrap, Teddy is construct and Stitcheds is puppet and construct).

[Regelridderen]

Strategies are just one aspect of the game. 

Another is the 5 Schemes, and the tech you need to accomplish those. 

Another is your opponent. What works against Wong doesn’t work against the Victorias. 

You need to take those things into account, when you choose your crew. 

Luckily the Dreamer is fairly versatile in the minions he can summon. So you can shore up for your shortcomings. But the good choices for henchmen and enforcers only show themselves through practice 😊
 

I suggest, you get some games in, choose what models, you want to learn to use, during those games, and rotate once you get the hang of it. Don’t play to win, play to learn, so you learn to win consistently.

[santaclaws01]

2 hours ago, melkore said:

Reckoning - My least favorite for Dreamer.  You have to score more points by killing opponents, so you have to be careful what you throw in to your opponent to make sure you aren't giving up points. 

I think if you plan to play Dreamer into reckoning you just have to accept the fact that you're going to give up 1-2 points because of summons and go from there. You know you can get your points easily enough, so you mainly just have to focus on keeping Dreamer and Chompy(WW is too easily killed to be worth in reckoning IMO) alive so that you opponent has to kill multiple models for each point beyond the first. Other than that, Nightmare(along with every neverborn keyword) is really great at killing, so you should have no problems getting at least 3 points here and only some issues getting the 4th so long as you aren't getting absolutely stomped.

[Ezuma]

Lots of great replies here, I would second that you should try to build your lists based off of all the info you can (not just strats but schemes and board setup and the faction you are against). 

- I agree that Serena is pretty essential, amazing at claim jump and especially useful in corrupted idols and reckoning -although frankly I consider taking her in most Neverborn crews.

- Widow weaver is much more situation dependent, and probably should be taken with Bandersnatch most games.

- Carver seems better in Pandora to me but probably I just haven't cracked him yet. He is very reliable as a henchman with stat 7, but frankly I would prefer to take Hinimatsu (who is almost never a bad call)

- Copelius is a top notch schemer and a capable fighter, though I do use Insidious Madness in a similar role and they are significantly cheaper (and surprisingly tanky). 

- Stitched are amazing and probably no one needs to tell you that. I hire them often but probably you can just summon them when needed. 

-When it comes to versatile models Hooded Rider and Hinimatsu are both strong pieces especially in Reckoning or Turf War.

 

Dreamer is my favorite master and a great choice as he can do everything pretty well, even reckoning isn't too tough provided you don't feed your opponent kills and play cautiously (which is totally doable especially if you go henchman heavy). Between lucid dreaming stacking the odds in your favor, good anti Armour tech, high mobility pieces, summoning great minions and access to healing and very reliable damage output, there is a lot in Dreamer's favor and I have a way more consistent win rate with him than any other master (except Nekima but i find her a bit boring). 

[SEV]

Thank everybody. I agreed, your replies were excellent. It gives me a good starting point. I understand that I have to adapt to scheme and crew, but there's less variance in the strats in each game. So I'll  find a way to adapt my stock build from there... If someone wants to go deep and explains his selection for every scheme, that would be awesome though :-) But you already help me a lot. Time to get some reps now !

[Ogid]

Glad to help!

I was thinking the double master with Nekima is good but it'd suffer too much if she is killed and it doesn't help you to understand better the keyword... maybe for reckoning this list is better for now:

• Dreamer, LCB (IR), Carver, Hinamatsu, Serena (IR), Daydream (AP), Daydream, Daydream. 8SS. Note: This list may also be legit for Turf Wars.

About your other points, these threads could help you:

• https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/148508-is-our-faction-just-not-interact-efficient/
• https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/148177-best-choices-for-each-deployment-type/
• https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/147608-favourite-models-for-each-scheme/
• https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/148751-best-models-for-each-scheme/

But in a nutshell in Nightmare:

• WW/Bandersnatch are very mobile (Coppelius maybe too, slower but more hitty). That helps with schemes that need to go deep into the other's player side or reinforce positions like Breakthrough, Power Ritual, Search the ruins or Outflank.
• Some models may help to kidnap enemy models to score take prisioner like WW with "Into the dream web" trigger, Serena with "Hole in the world", Hinamatsu with Lure or Insidious with Scatter.
• Hold up their forces depends on who you are facing but it's not a bad scheme for him, all his summons are reasonably tanky and are unburied engaged.
• Deliver a message or Assasinate are also enemy dependent but Nightmare is Killy and scale well so can also be good options.
• For Claim Jump there are a lot of good options; any good and tanky beater can score this: LCB, Carver, Teddy or Serena. Nightmare like brawling so controling the center is usually a good deal for them. Insidius Madness Scatter may also help.
• For Vendetta there are good targets: WW or Serena are decent choices; but you may also use a Black Blood Shaman or the Effigy with the upgrade to cheese this one (select a cheaper target and then replace that model for something more expensive than the target)
• For Search Ruins or Harness some verstailes/OOK may help to get cheap AP or be able to stack markers.
• Detonate Charges isn't an easy scheme for him; I'd say avoid this one.
• Dig their Graves is an interesting scheme, this crew drop few markers so it's hard to score versus them. Nightmare is killy so it's not a bad scheme for them but some models that generate corpses/scrap may help to score this reliabily (Zoraida or BBS for example)

[Nagi21]

9 hours ago, Ezuma said:

-Carver seems better in Pandora to me but probably I just haven't cracked him yet. He is very reliable as a henchman with stat 7, but frankly I would prefer to take Hinimatsu (who is almost never a bad call)

Carver is the go to when you either need to rip focus off the enemy crew constantly (see Mah, Nekima, or Sandeep), or when you need someone who's able to put out min 4 damage per attack consistently (i.e. vs lots of HTW).

[Maniacal_cackle]

In my view, deployment type will often have a bigger impact than strategy for what models/crews are strongest, so I will try to reference that here.

I mained Dreamer for a number of months. He has been one of my favourite masters so far (although unfortunately I'm probably going to end up selling off my Neverborn). Hopefully I can give some helpful insights, though! One thing to note is that you can play minion heavy dreamer (with lots of lucid dreams and a strong deck) or elite dreamer (with lots of powerful models). I play elite dreamer, with usually only 4-5 lucid dreamers at the start of the game. So my advice may not be as relevant if you're a minion dreamer player.

Others have given some useful information, so I'll try to break it down model by model:

The Core

Here's what I take every single game:

• Dreamer
• Lord Chompy
• Daydream with Ancient Pact
• Daydream with Ancient Pact
• 5-6 soulstones

Serena Bowman almost makes the list, but occasionally she stays in the box for some matchups.

The soulstones are super, super useful. Dreamer needs them for summons and Nightstalker. Lord Chompy can use them for a few purposes (but if you're using them defensively more than offensively, you're probably screwing up positioning or being overprotective). And occasionally widow weaver will get some (especially in some scenarios). Many players take 8-10, but I try to push myself not to rely on soulstones and generally go for a 5-6 stone cache. 

Generally this crew is not the best at scoring second points of schemes. Instead you're usually aiming for board dominance, 3-4 strategy points, 1 point from each scheme, and just killing your opponent out of the game so they can't score. When you can net a second point of a scheme (for instance, claim jump), it is a major boost to the crew.

The Dreamer

Reasonably tanky, but extremely resource intensive. In an ideal scenario, you're not wanting him to get hit at all unless you are happy to let him die (and after his third activation, he is reasonably expendable). His Diversion aura can be devastating, preventing many important bonus actions. Since he is incorporeal, he can dodge and weave through terrain to stay safe. He of course summons (and unlike many summoners, positioning does not matter at all for him), and you generally want to do this as much as you can. However, I wouldn't recommend relying too much on it (sometimes you just don't have the cards), and I personally would never take ancient pact on him. Only ~1/54 summons are going to fail to the black joker, and honestly I don't rely on summoning enough that it matters if I do black joker them.

He is also a reasonable beater (going up to min 3 damage if you have two buried summons). His "Nightstalker" trigger is one of his best abilities - sometimes I skip summoning entirely to go move, move, soulstone + Your nightmare + cheat a high card to Nightstalker Lord Chompy Bits across the field. His bonus action is super good, but you won't get much use out of it after turn one. Still, occasionally it will be handy.

Generally for the first two turns, you're always keeping him safe and summoning. From turn three onwards, it is summons, nightstalkers, cricket bats, twist realities, disrupting with his diversion aura, or even scheming as necessary.

Lord Chompy Bits

What a nuts model! However, he is super squishy, and you have to be careful to keep him somewhere safe. He can take a bit of a beating (especially with a soulstone as backup), and heals up quickly, but concentrated fire will bring him down. Try to avoid it. Don't rely extensively on soulstones to keep him safe. Use positioning, and then a single soulstone at a key moment.

His Trail of Gore ability is the most efficient scheme marker removal in the crew (and nearly the best in the faction). For this reason, I generally assign Lord Chompy Bits to defense and scheme denial. However, The Dreamer can reposition him to switch to offense at anytime after turn three.

Yes, this is a bit backwards compared to some. IMO, Dreamer doing the front line (after turn 2) and Lord Chompy doing the back line just works better for me in many games. Of course some games are a meat grinder from the get go and Lord Chompy goes straight into the action (and promptly dies after serving his purpose). Don't put him on the backline if you don't have good reason to think your opponent is going for scheme markers, however (if the only scheme marker scheme is power ritual and your opponent doesn't have high manueverability, don't use him for scheme denial).

His Tear off a Bite is his most important trigger, IMO, and high rams are generally going to be used to heal Chompy. With a single rams trigger, he will heal FOUR damage on his activation when combined with his regen. Very, very good. On your heels is probably good sometimes, but honestly landing a Twist reality + on your heels followed up by only one melee attack isn't that powerful. It is way better on models that can follow it up with 2-3 attacks. Neither of these are (usually) worth soulstoning for.

The Carver

The only model I don't own, but I think he is better for Pandora anyway. However, note his ruthless ability. If you face lots of opponents with terrifying or manipulative, bring Carver or Hooded Rider. (Or both).

Widow Weaver (+Bandersnatch)

Generally you take these together, so I'll cover them in one section. However, note that taking only widow weaver is useful for some stupid summoning combos (like Zoraida as a second master, you take Widow Weaver). I'll ignore those summoning combos here.

This is your most manoeuvrable tag team. Corner deployment and standard deployment, you should always pause and ask yourself if this pair would be handy for the scenario. Especially on something like turf war or plant explosives, they can cover an insane amount of territory and stay safe. For corrupted idols, they can't really spare the health, but sometimes I take them anyway (sacrificing a model to secure a point is legit at times). They are good at schemes like Breakthrough because they can easily cross the distance, but they struggle with schemes like Search the Ruins or Harness the Leyline because they simply can't pump out that many scheme markers. They can really help score outflank, being able to teleport into position and push others out of position.

Widow Weaver is insane at repositioning. Terrorize is one of the best abilities in the crew in my view. Use spare tomes to give extra web triggers to Widow Weaver, but don't stone for them. Terrorize and Into the Dream Web are both extremely effective Take Prisoner tools, so she is solid at that scheme.

Bandersnatch is a good nuisance and tag-teamer, but is pretty squishy. It can be useful for harrying the enemy, but if you full out engage it will die (which is fine if that's the plan). His primary reason for existing is to double up on webs and teleports.

Coppelius

He IS really good, I just don't find myself using him very often. I'm not sure he is the 'best' at anything. His agile + movement seven means he can be very useful in some situations. He hits reasonably hard at an incredibly high stat. I find his unhinge ability largely useless (Terrorize is sooooo much better in my opinion). Shifting sands is... Okay, but is a lot of effort compared to Lord Chompy's bonus action. However, if you DID pull it off on harness the leyline, you'd be cackling maniacally...

Frightening reminder is solid, and really pushes him from "a model with some pretty good abilities" to "a solid all-rounder." However, I prefer Daydreams for repositioning.

So overall, well-rounded model that is solid for a number of purposes. I'm not sure he is number one at any task, but he is a good number 2 for many things. His ability to swap from scheme-running to beater can be very potent, especially if he gets a chance to kill enemy scheme runners (he shouldn't get that chance if the enemy has good scheme runners and knows what they're doing).

Serena Bowman

Wowza. I seriously under-rated this model when I read the card. She is GOOD. She is almost an autotake for me.

She is probably one of the best Claim Jumpers in the faction (in a faction that is extremely good at Claim Jump). Between Disguised, Demise, and the ability to heal herself, she is extremely hard to kill. Beware ranged crews, however, as they care less about her disguised! Her Hole in the World would be amazing for Take Prisoner, but she cannot soulstone for it. As such, she can supplement Take Prisoner, but she shouldn't be your main plan. She is also super good at Vendetta (she is very good at killing, and she is very hard to kill).

She hits like a truck (particularly after you lucid dream 10+ weak cards away), so her primary role is beater in my view. Set up some melee attacks through her extra reach ability, but don't be afraid to send her in directly. She gets a higher stat!

That said, I do think she is over-hyped. She isn't ungodly powerful, or even Archie-in-Forgotten powerful. If she isn't hitting things a fair bit or scoring the above schemes, she may not be worth taking. If you're finding she is spending her turns moving twice and using her bonus action heal very often, you're not making efficient use of an 8 stone model. 

Teddy

The coolest looking model in the crew! For many of us, Teddy is one of the reasons we got into the crew.

Unfortunately, he is not the best model around. If it is a high maneuverability matchup (such as corner or some standard deployments, or any corrupted idols), he may not carry his weight. However, if you're wanting to slog it out in the middle (such as in a flank deployment + claim jump situation), he is pretty good.  Super good attack, good healing, armor 1, terrifying, flurry... He'll do well in a melee slog. However, with his defense four, he'll fall to concentrated fire or to anything that ignores armor.

I've got your back and Terrorise make him very good at repositioning the board, which is extremely important. Both abilities are very, very good. Learn to master them!

Alp

They're really outshined by stitched in many matchups, but they do have their uses. The free attack on unbury is nice. Natural musk is the most unique thing they bring to the table, and can really mess up your enemies plans. If you're worried about enemy damage, consider spam-summoning alps. Between musk and biting insult, they can REALLY hinder your enemies' ability to focus fire your guys down.

And if they can't focus fire, they can't stop you from activating and healing 4+ from regeneration and triggers. This crew is all about using tricks and positioning to mitigate damage just enough that you can heal back up and make them start all over again.

A red joker can summon two of them. A 12 will get you an alp + a daydream. A 9 will get you an alp.

I hire zero, summon when I don't have something better to do.

Stitched

Some elements of stitched are broken and they need a nerf. However, in many ways they're over-rated.

Stitched do two important things: get high cards back into your deck if you lucid-dreamed them out and damage.

That first role is pretty important, especially if you're getting a bad run.

That second role... The crew already does SO MUCH DAMAGE. More damage is nice, but can be overkill at times. On the bright side, they can do their damage without using cards from your hand or soulstones. This is extremely important. If you're finding yourself resourced starved, you probably could do with more Stitched on the table. Having a damage-dealer that doesn't need cards from your hand is VERY good.

This is your default summon, but be mindful of not using high cards for it if you could be better off using them for something else (for instance, teleporting Lord chompy). A 13 can get you a stitched + a daydream, which is often a good turn one play, but not so good later in the game when you're using high cards for battles.

I hire 1-2, summon when it doesn't stop me from doing something awesome.

Insidious Madness

Potentially our best summon, simply because of the scheming power it grants. Scatter is very good (if you can't tell, I value repositioning very highly with this crew).

Plus, its attack is willpower based, so can bring in more summons! Disembodied voices is icing on the cake. Occasionally useful.

EDIT: And it is our tankiest summon! I've won games off of terrorize summoning an insidious madness into engagement range. The enemy was so tied up and it took so long to deal with my madness that I carried away the game on the rest of the board.

Daydreams

Fundamental to the crew. Lead nightmare early on gets you a solid movement advantage initially. For the rest of the game, you can pop in and out of combat with models. Combine this with 2" engagement ranges on most of your beaters and this is BRUTAL. And of course, with a few on the board, their bend reality damage really adds up.

I take two with Ancient Pacts every single time. The additional initiative is game-breaking, as are the two extra cards (33% increase in cards per turn!!!) And unlike many minions, you actually want daydreams in your backline anyway, so they tend to stay safe unless your opponent dedicates tons of resources... Which is what you want them to do to kill a 3(+2) stone model!

Daydreams play a particularly important role on standard and corner deployment, as the extra maneuverability can make a big difference. They're also fantastic for corrupted idols (initiative + extra cards + movement is a potent package).

Summoning

Well, there is too much to say to really capture it here. Stitched together are a good default, but if you're not regularly summoning your whole toolkit, you're not fully utilising the crew's versatility in my view.

Summoning is a support to your crew, not the entire point of it. Other summons can summon 8-10 stone models. We cannot. However, we field a very strong starting crew and a snow-balling deck. Use the summons as a toolbox to augment this awesome crew, but don't see it as the main point of the crew.

Just my thoughts!

EDIT: to start you off, I've attached two lists. They'll not be optimised, but should be good to learn the crew. One if for mobility (especially corner deployment) and one for brawling.

Note that they require good resource management, so you may struggle with resources. If so, you may want to swap out some big models for stitched or other minions.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Oh, another thing you can do is if you have a scenario coming up (or a past one), you can post the information here and we can give tips as to what crew we would have built.

[Ogid]

Solid points @Maniacal_cackle, some comments to them:

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The Dreamer

Reasonably tanky, but extremely resource intensive. In an ideal scenario, you're not wanting him to get hit at all unless you are happy to let him die (and after his third activation, he is reasonably expendable). I personally would never take ancient pact on him. Only ~1/54 summons are going to fail to the black joker, and honestly I don't rely on summoning enough that it matters if I do black joker them.

He is also a reasonable beater (going up to min 3 damage if you have two buried summons).

The Dreamer is hard to hit, but it's important to mind he will die fast if he is catched out of position (no models near to use protected). Beware of Focused attacks, buit-in to duels or attacks that may displace the models defending him as these may be used to enable a quick kill in the dreamer. Agree with not bringing AP on him and being expendable late game.

For using his mele attack both Bandersnatch and Insidious are great, but this is more a fun build than a meta one; his support abilities are more powerful than his beating potential imo.

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Lord Chompy Bits

What a nuts model! However, he is super squishy, and you have to be careful to keep him somewhere safe. He can take a bit of a beating (especially with a soulstone as backup), and heals up quickly, but concentrated fire will bring him down. Try to avoid it. Don't rely extensively on soulstones to keep him safe. Use positioning, and then a single soulstone at a key moment.

His Trail of Gore ability is the most efficient scheme marker removal in the crew (and nearly the best in the faction). For this reason, I generally assign Lord Chompy Bits to defense and scheme denial. However, The Dreamer can reposition him to switch to offense at anytime after turn three.

For this I like IR on him. Butterfly Jump in a model with mele range 2 is very good to keep him alive in situations where he would had been killed or a lot of SS would need to be used.

Trail of  Gore is very good, but imo there are 2 others denial abilities that are worth to note. Arson in Iggy is top notch and inside of the keyword Coppelius Shifting Sands is very good versus schemes that require several markers near of each other (and even if not that good, "Up in flames" trigger from The Carver is also good worth to note).

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Widow Weaver is insane at repositioning. Terrorize is one of the best abilities in the crew in my view. Use spare tomes to give extra web triggers to Widow Weaver, but don't stone for them. Terrorize and Into the Dream Web are both extremely effective Take Prisoner tools, so she is solid at that scheme.

Bandersnatch is a good nuisance and tag-teamer, but is pretty squishy. It can be useful for harrying the enemy, but if you full out engage it will die (which is fine if that's the plan). His primary reason for existing is to double up on webs and teleports.

WW has a lot of utility and little tricks, and just for that is a model hard to use at first (it's always easier to wreck face with any of the other beaters); but she is very solid. Webs can also be used to annoy enemies, not only for mobility (note also the synergy with the emissary that may heal out of them and have bonuses attackign models inside of them). Also worth to note that in mele range Terrorize will heal her (2 with the trigger). "Into the dream web" may be used in friendly models to reposition them, this will hurt and poison the friendly model but depending on the situation (and if serena may patch that model later) is something to consider as it may reposition a model up to 12'' away from WW.

Bandersnatch has a way to survive an engagement; summoning an Alph when she buries (she will get the equivalent to H2W and the Alph attack bonuses for the buried nightmare). Not the best way to use her, but to keep in mind.

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Coppelius

He IS really good, I just don't find myself using him very often. I'm not sure he is the 'best' at anything.

Coppelius hits very hard and is quite fast and nimble while also having some supporting abilities. He and Nekima are the only models in the faction with a moderate 5 damage (counting the trigger); this is great in a list with several minions removing weak cards. Shifting sands trigger is another reason to pick him and unhinge is like a heal for engaged nightmares. However he is squishier than both Teddy and Carver (and that other OOK beaters); he is a nice package of utility an punch.

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

That said, I do think she is over-hyped. She isn't ungodly powerful, or even Archie-in-Forgotten powerful. If she isn't hitting things a fair bit or scoring the above schemes, she may not be worth taking. If you're finding she is spending her turns moving twice and using her bonus action heal very often, you're not making efficient use of an 8 stone model. 

Serena is quite good just for being one of the only healer in the faction with also condition removal. In nightmare she is also a solid model to redirect attacks having df6 and eternal and the Focused from "Your Nightmare" also pairs well with her damage track. She isn't an ungodly beater but she is a very good all rounded model.

In nightmare however the high cost guys shouldn't waste AP walking if possible, daydreams/coppelius push may be used to make those models more action efficient.

3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Unfortunately, he is not the best model around. If it is a high maneuverability matchup (such as corner or some standard deployments, or any corrupted idols), he may not carry his weight. However, if you're wanting to slog it out in the middle (such as in a flank deployment + claim jump situation), he is pretty good.  Super good attack, good healing, armor 1, terrifying, flurry... He'll do well in a melee slog. However, with his defense four, he'll fall to concentrated fire or to anything that ignores armor.

I do like Teddy... he is a hammer with little utility, but good hammering things. With IR he is survivable enough and even if it's a bit expensive, consume may be used to heal him (stitcheds, then summon back with WW) or Vasilisa may also heal him.

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Ogid, yeah, I think Teddy is a fine model if you have something dedicated to carting him around (like Baby Kade) or you have the appropriate deployment (like flank), but his lack of movement really hinders him from being an all-star in every game. In Dreamer's crew, day dreams are too in demand to really rely on them for any one model. Especially since one of the best daydream tricks is to move your models after they're engaged.

Dreamer shouldn't be considered a beater, but at the same time, if you're never swinging his bat, you're probably not playing him aggressively enough/punishing enemy mistakes. I often have at least one buried model anyway (since I don't always deploy models when people fail willpower duels, and sometimes you just have a backlog).

I don't like Inhuman Reflexes on Chompy just because there's so many other options (and he is so easy to keep alive with his other abilities). My upgrade priority is: 2 ancient pacts, 1 inhuman reflexes on serena or teddy, one on lord chompy... And it is rare I get to that fourth upgrade. That said, his fast healing does make it pretty potent.

That's a neat trick with Bandy and Alps

[goth]

Don’t underestimate the scheming potential of a 3ss Wicked Doll.  They have stealth, and have a stat 5 WP cast with 8” range that could let them place into the summoning bubble they’ve created.

edit: take one sometimes to complement other 3ss daydreams because even if they get shot off the board their activations are better than the pass token 

[Ogid]

Dolls are quite good to have cheap AP around. And work well in nightmare where WW may use scrap to summon them again (or "upgrade" to stitcheds) and they bring a 8'' Wp duel with stat 5. Other nice but more niche synergies are the dreamer being able to stagger with a trigger and LCB and Carver having Execute and dolls attacking the hand. Legit little fellas.

The only negative part of having a lot of models is losing the initiative in key turns.

[SEV]

Hi guys. Thank again.

First game is comming against Mah :Standard, Idols, Hold up their forces; Outflank; Deliver a Message; Breakthrough; Search the Ruins.

Unfortunately, I don't have a full rooster yet (I'm unable to find the Insomnia box anywhere), but I like theory crafting, so what would you do (scheme pick and crew)?

I read your advises and based on that i would go with this for this match :

 Dreamer + LCB

2x Daydream + AP (seem alway worth it and especially good here) a

Serena 

Teddy (seem good in Idols, but i'm not sure because of the Scheme pool)

WW and Bandersnatch (seem great for this pool, but maybe I should take, for the same price, Copelius + 1 Stiched) 

7SS

I would choose Outflank and Deliver a Message (Mah want to get close anyway, but maybe it's too risky?)

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 hours ago, SEV said:

Hi guys. Thank again.

First game is comming against Mah :Standard, Idols, Hold up their forces; Outflank; Deliver a Message; Breakthrough; Search the Ruins.

Unfortunately, I don't have a full rooster yet (I'm unable to find the Insomnia box anywhere), but I like theory crafting, so what would you do (scheme pick and crew)?

I read your advises and based on that i would go with this for this match :

 Dreamer + LCB

2x Daydream + AP (seem alway worth it and especially good here) a

Serena 

Teddy (seem good in Idols, but i'm not sure because of the Scheme pool)

WW and Bandersnatch (seem great for this pool, but maybe I should take, for the same price, Copelius + 1 Stiched) 

7SS

I would choose Outflank and Deliver a Message (Mah want to get close anyway, but maybe it's too risky?)

 

I don't know anything about Mah, but in a vacuum I'd say Teddy is going to struggle with this pool (unless you want to hold the centre or really lock down a flank), and Serena is probably not necessary. Coppelius feels like a better option than either, and could possibly consider coppelius + stitched to replace the pair.

Outflank and deliver is a sound plan! Summons are also super good at Hold Up, and search the ruins or breakthrough are doable single points (not double point).

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

3 hours ago, SEV said:

Hi guys. Thank again.

First game is comming against Mah :Standard, Idols, Hold up their forces; Outflank; Deliver a Message; Breakthrough; Search the Ruins.

I would choose Outflank and Deliver a Message (Mah want to get close anyway, but maybe it's too risky?)

If I were you I would prefer to kill her asap. You need several turns to make your deck better via Lucid Dreaming. Big Brain Brin will be turning her deck into a pile of severe cards every turn, and she will put them to good use. Put pressure on her, so your opponent wil have to activate her before BBB. Do you consider Hold up? You can summon cheap models to score that scheme easily.

[Nagi21]

7 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

If I were you I would prefer to kill her asap. You need several turns to make your deck better via Lucid Dreaming. Big Brain Brin will be turning her deck into a pile of severe cards every turn, and she will put them to good use. Put pressure on her, so your opponent wil have to activate her before BBB. Do you consider Hold up? You can summon cheap models to score that scheme easily.

Second this.  Mah is the most dangerous member of that crew for several reasons and is half of the reason the crew is as busted as it is (the other half being Brin's bs and access to soulstone miner bs).  Unless you're strictly only taking it for the 1st point easily, but in that pool Mah is very likely to score at least 6 points if not 7/8 (you can't pin her down at all due to diving charge, so if you lose last turn initiative that's that).  You need to pick things you can reasonably do for both points.  Hold up could be good, especially if you can finagle a red joker into your hand for a pair of alps.  Breakthrough would likely come too late in the game and Mah has so many tools to just say no to your scheme markers.  Search suffers from the same problem here but is slightly easier if the terrain cooperates.  I like Holdup/outflank here, particularly with idols, but you're gonna be fighting an uphill battle most of the game.

[brimmstorm]

Nevermind. I was reading the wrong thing.