Big Hat now complete.

[Morgan Vening]

As mentioned in the Mali Discussion thread, So'mer has had his last two hold-outs join his crew.

Georgy and Olaf, and the Spit Hog have been released by the Special Orders program.
https://giveusyourmoneypleasethankyou-wyrd.com/collections/m3e-special-orders

Anyone with So'mer experience want to enlighten those of us who held off, on any tips and tricks to use these two models?

Is 12 Cups for a Spit Hog too expensive?

Is G&O a good buy, or is he a little too expensive? I'll still buy the model regardless, but even paying the OOK, a Rooster Rider looks like a faster better option. 

[Rufess]

Had written something about Big Hat before.

which was my first impression right after the first two game of the crew so was not accurate enough. Some thought had been changed after I have more experience with the keyword.

• George has much more value in the crew to me than I had rated. He is the main damage dealer inside the keyword. You want him to shoot in every single PEG chance. 
• Lenny is still an important piece of the crew. After he was focused and been took out early in the game several times, however, I found that the crew surprisingly had not turned into some fragile glasses as I would imagined. His abilities is excellent when facing Blasting(mostly from shooting) and Shockwave heavy crew, otherwise I would rank him below George.
• Good Ol'Boy is good. They are more a melee tarpit and beater than a range power, which we don't have much within the faction. So Rooster Rider can hardly replace their role.
• Spit Hog is important as well. Just you do not need heal in the early game, and given the Mv 4 and 50mm base of the Spit Hog, they need some work to catch up with the whole crew. So normally I just summon one when I need healing, usually turn 3.
• Banjonista is the only model that I still have no idea to use. On paper they have the movement and shielding abilities plus the condition removal, which seems good enough. In actual game, however, I always found that I do not have the hand for the shielding and/or removal. I think they would be better if the Pluck the Strings action is a direct attack action instead of a pulse.

[Scoffer]

5 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

Is G&O a good buy, or is he a little too expensive? I'll still buy the model regardless, but even paying the OOK, a Rooster Rider looks like a faster better option.

G&O and Roosters have absolutely different roles.

G&O is a hard hitting tank with both offencive and defencive stats 7 if positioned properly. He can give focused to all minions (and Big Hats run a lot of minions), he can shoot from engagement, he is hard to lock in engagement (but hard to keep in position as well), he is the first candidate to revenge deaths of bayous via Pig-Eating Grin.

A Rooster OOK without free focuses from Mah is a... Suicidal Flanker? It can run and score one VP. Not bad, but a Silurid is 1ss cheaper, has better chances to survive and can jump out of engagement.

[Morgan Vening]

1 hour ago, Scoffer said:

G&O and Roosters have absolutely different roles.

G&O is a hard hitting tank with both offencive and defencive stats 7 if positioned properly. He can give focused to all minions (and Big Hats run a lot of minions), he can shoot from engagement, he is hard to lock in engagement (but hard to keep in position as well), he is the first candidate to revenge deaths of bayous via Pig-Eating Grin.

A Rooster OOK without free focuses from Mah is a... Suicidal Flanker? It can run and score one VP. Not bad, but a Silurid is 1ss cheaper, has better chances to survive and can jump out of engagement.

How are you getting the defensive stats to 7?

Don't have much experience with Bayou, but I'm not seeing THAT much difference in their survivability, Df5 vs Df6(7), 8 Wounds, and H2K on GAO. An edge to GAO, but not a significant one IMO. Their offenses outside PEG seem pretty similar before you factor in Grit on the Rider, and the Movement (especially with Reckless) made the two, even with OOK seem comparable.

Definitely looks like PEG is the difference. Both you and @Rufess mentioned Georgy being used for Pig Eating Grin. But how does that square with "Who Runs GremlinTown"? Does it make it more situational, do you just never use it, or do you need to pump resources into keeping him alive (Spit Hog?)? 

[Scoffer]

43 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

How are you getting the defensive stats to 7?

With a little help from my fellow Gremlin General Lenny - he gives +1 to duels performed outside of activation to Big Hat models within (8). And when G&O is within (2) from Lenny his DF vs projectiles is 8 (:

48 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Don't have much experience with Bayou, but I'm not seeing THAT much difference in their survivability, Df5 vs Df6(7), 8 Wounds, and H2K on GAO. An edge to GAO, but not a significant one IMO. Their offenses outside PEG seem pretty similar before you factor in Grit on the Rider, and the Movement (especially with Reckless) made the two, even with OOK seem comparable.

Being able to keep models on the table (and remove enemy models) is very important in m3e. You can't score 7 VP turn 2, get wiped turn 4 and still win 7:6 anymore (it was my favourite strategy back in m2e, I miss it so much). That's why survivability makes a lot of difference. G&O is the model nobody wants to mess with due to low chances of successful attack agains him. Roosters are fire magnets made of glass.

1 hour ago, Morgan Vening said:

Definitely looks like PEG is the difference. Both you and @Rufess mentioned Georgy being used for Pig Eating Grin. But how does that square with "Who Runs GremlinTown"? Does it make it more situational, do you just never use it, or do you need to pump resources into keeping him alive (Spit Hog?)? 

I try to use WRGT turn 1 while Somer is out of sight. On the other hand 1 damage and 1 card (to take shielded from Banjonista) is a fair price for several focuses.

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Morgan Vening said:

How are you getting the defensive stats to 7?

 

Lenny I assume.

A quick look seems to suggest there will be a difference if your engaged, as the rooster is neutered if its not at 0" range, where as Georgy is still fine because he can still shoot, and also the triggers.

Also Attack Stat 7 vs Stat 5 in your activation is pretty different.

[ShinChan]

1 hour ago, Scoffer said:

With a little help from my fellow Gremlin General Lenny - he gives +1 to duels performed outside of activation to Big Hat models within (8). And when G&O is within (2) from Lenny his DF vs projectiles is 8 🙂

Being able to keep models on the table (and remove enemy models) is very important in m3e. You can't score 7 VP turn 2, get wiped turn 4 and still win 7:6 anymore (it was my favourite strategy back in m2e, I miss it so much). That's why survivability makes a lot of difference. G&O is the model nobody wants to mess with due to low chances of successful attack agains him. Roosters are fire magnets made of glass.

I try to use WRGT turn 1 while Somer is out of sight. On the other hand 1 damage and 1 card (to take shielded from Banjonista) is a fair price for several focuses.

Totally agree with this

 

5 hours ago, Rufess said:

which was my first impression right after the first two game of the crew so was not accurate enough. Some thought had been changed after I have more experience with the keyword.

• George has much more value in the crew to me than I had rated. He is the main damage dealer inside the keyword. You want him to shoot in every single PEG chance. 
• Lenny is still an important piece of the crew. After he was focused and been took out early in the game several times, however, I found that the crew surprisingly had not turned into some fragile glasses as I would imagined. His abilities is excellent when facing Blasting(mostly from shooting) and Shockwave heavy crew, otherwise I would rank him below George.
• Good Ol'Boy is good. They are more a melee tarpit and beater than a range power, which we don't have much within the faction. So Rooster Rider can hardly replace their role.
• Spit Hog is important as well. Just you do not need heal in the early game, and given the Mv 4 and 50mm base of the Spit Hog, they need some work to catch up with the whole crew. So normally I just summon one when I need healing, usually turn 3.
• Banjonista is the only model that I still have no idea to use. On paper they have the movement and shielding abilities plus the condition removal, which seems good enough. In actual game, however, I always found that I do not have the hand for the shielding and/or removal. I think they would be better if the Pluck the Strings action is a direct attack action instead of a pulse.

And this, except maybe the part about Lenny, I find him extremely important, at the same level as G&O. With the Banjonistas I just couldn't agree more.

For 

2 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

How are you getting the defensive stats to 7?

Don't have much experience with Bayou, but I'm not seeing THAT much difference in their survivability, Df5 vs Df6(7), 8 Wounds, and H2K on GAO. An edge to GAO, but not a significant one IMO. Their offenses outside PEG seem pretty similar before you factor in Grit on the Rider, and the Movement (especially with Reckless) made the two, even with OOK seem comparable.

Definitely looks like PEG is the difference. Both you and @Rufess mentioned Georgy being used for Pig Eating Grin. But how does that square with "Who Runs GremlinTown"? Does it make it more situational, do you just never use it, or do you need to pump resources into keeping him alive (Spit Hog?)? 

Well, you have Lenny to easily block vision between G&O and Som'er. If that doesn't work, the mandatory Banjonista reduces the damage by 1 thanks to shielded.

The crew is general works quite well, but it very easy to tech against it since it really wants to play the bubble game, at least with most of the crew.

[Rufess]

2 hours ago, Morgan Vening said:

But how does that square with "Who Runs GremlinTown"? Does it make it more situational, do you just never use it, or do you need to pump resources into keeping him alive (Spit Hog?)? 

Try to use Lenny to block the LoS between Somer and George. Which require prefect positioning, so you can only do it on turn 1 and 2, and afterward you should have a Spit Hog sitting on the center of your crew.

The Big Hat keyword cannot deal serious damage. They can output a LARGE NUMBER of attack, but mostly are qualityless. Good when facing Augment while bad when facing Nephilim. George is the only model can project notable damage to some important target across the board.

Lenny's Gremlin General is a great ability, however, most models inside the crew can be throw away so bonus to resistant duel is really just a bonus. The main value of the ability to me is boosting PEG's shot, and which involves George. This is the reason why I rate George over Lenny. Both of them are must-take to me though.

[Mxbedlam]

On 1/31/2020 at 11:10 AM, Rufess said:

Try to use Lenny to block the LoS between Somer and George. Which require prefect positioning, so you can only do it on turn 1 and 2, and afterward you should have a Spit Hog sitting on the center of your crew.

The Big Hat keyword cannot deal serious damage. They can output a LARGE NUMBER of attack, but mostly are qualityless. Good when facing Augment while bad when facing Nephilim. George is the only model can project notable damage to some important target across the board.

Lenny's Gremlin General is a great ability, however, most models inside the crew can be throw away so bonus to resistant duel is really just a bonus. The main value of the ability to me is boosting PEG's shot, and which involves George. This is the reason why I rate George over Lenny. Both of them are must-take to me though.

Gonna argue with you about their damage. Stat 7 2/4/5 on G&O with focus almost all the time (Thanks Cranky). 2/3b/3b with a 1/2/4 richocet or a 3/4b/4b on GoB with focus (btw it effects the Ricochet trigger) is a good amount of damage. Add in Somer's Gun and Lenny's pig tossing and the key word can pump out a lot more damage than expected. HOWEVER its not always consistent which is fine, because as you pointed out, there's a lot of shots going on. 

[goth]

I’m going to say that I frequently take Old Cranky OOK into swampfiends.  He is great.

[Math Mathonwy]

On 2/3/2020 at 9:35 PM, goth said:

I’m going to say that I frequently take Old Cranky OOK into swampfiends.  He is great.

I must be missing something important - he doesn't seem like he'd contribute much aside from Initiative to Swampfiends? I mean, you can get an unsuited Obey from within the keyword as well?