Nekima problems

[monkeyking68]

Seriously, how do I beat this:

Size: 50 - Pool 7

Nekima - Inhuman Reflexes

Blood Hunter

Hayreddin - Inhuman Reflexes

Black Blood Shaman

Mature Nephilim - Ancient Pact

Mature Nephilim - Ancient Pact

The player in question plays it for all scenarios.  Most of us haven't made it past turn two.  Nekima is typically rammed into your deployment zone on turn one.  The mature nephilims are easily replaced as well.  Damage is regenerated and despite the model count, scoring hasn't been an issue.  Most of us who have survived to turn three no longer have the manpower to score scenario points.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

[ShinChan]

Does it has to be with a specific master? 

Otherwise, the answer is Ophelia and Sammy. Ophelia and Kin has the highest damage output of the whole Bayou. Sammy has the posibility to bury those Matures and make them waste at least one whole activation just getting back into position. Additionally, thanks to black blood you'll be drawing some extra nice cards.

Bring:

Ophelia + 3 Youngsters

François

Sammy

Raphael

Gracie

Bokor

You still have 11ss to spend between:

Ramy: if you think you can keep him safe, maybe covering a flank by himself and a great model for Vendetta.

Big Brain Brin: Extra cards, free stun delivery, cancel triggers, situational heal and pseudobey. Makes your deck hot to hit those severes. 

Pere: One of the few cases I will consider him. Invest some cards in him not to get deleted in a single activaction from those Nephilim, and then kill him yourself for a nice kamikaze explosion of 8/9/10 damage thanks to that troublemaker piggy. Yes, you'll be losing 7ss, but if you manage to kill a 12ss mature, it's totally worth it.

I can think of a couple of list with Som'er or Brewmaster that could work too, but way more difficult to make them work. 

[Gnomezilla]

Welcome to my world...

I dunno, might rate Brewmaster more highly because he doesn’t need to flip a resist to get his debuffs rolling and brings a lot of 2” melee ranges, both good tools for coping with any flavor of butterfly jumping 2” melee range models. Also because of said jumping beans, I’m not sanguine about the potential of any gun line. Gunfighter is quite useless when you’re being stiff-armed by a long reach, and as noted you will get exactly one (1) activation of clear shots before being engaged.

Gracie makes me outright jealous though—Armor 2 and full wounds for her cost and Ride with Me?! Full disclosure, armor only slows down the beatdown: if the Nephilim cards are good enough they can tear through Augmented like armor isn’t even there, let alone a partially armored crew. Other people want to try it though and I’m happy to see them add to that data pool.

[Kharnage]

I don't know if you're a Texas player and I'm the offending double Mature build Nekima, but uh, as the artisan of this particular build, let me offer you some general tips. 
Reach 2 is your friend. BFJ only robs you of AP consistently if I can engage you without you being able to attack. At worst, use focus + charge to make sure you're going to land a solid hit. Additionally, for our other defense, Combat Finesse, fight Matures late in the turn for multiple reasons: If I'm dragging on an activation of a full health Mature that's in a hotspot, I'm waiting for it to take damage to Regen 2. If you can wait it out, then I lose 2 HP on the exchange. Additionally, no one has a hand late in the turn, so not being able to cheat doesn't suck because you couldn't cheat anyway from hand starvation.
As for surviving what we have, burn stones to put us on negs (because this list focus bombs to start) or have hard to wound, if you can manage it. While Nekima still does 3 damage on her minimum, 5 damage is waaay worse if I can just a 6 to deal 5 damage on a straight flip. If you can match out to get us to a neg flip even with focus, do that too. Not like you can cheat to hit matures anyway, or really even need to cheat to hit Nekima (also a mildly alarming idea because of Spite)
Bayou also has access to Zoraida, which makes Matures really, really suck to have fighting around. We can't deal with her Regret trigger, and forcing a Mature to fight Nekima means that I can't Butterfly Jump, because the Mature isn't an enemy model, and Spite's enemy only too. I'm forced to run schemes with Matures and stay outside of LoS of Zoraida (and her eyes in the night Friends) or else seek to be actually engaged by your dudes so that I can't be obeyed to attack Nekima. Don't obey Hayreddin to splat bat people though; his Revitalizing Ichor will heal him and his obey target if you declare the crow trigger.
Finally, you have access to multiple forms of Hazardous, which does punish Butterfly Jump. Mah has options, mech chop has it too (though I will seek to destroy it quickly) If you can come up with some kind of Elitist Mah build with Trixie, you can also match out my initiative advantage since you will also have multiple Ill Omen buffs, which makes me more hesitant to throw Nekima into the fray late in the turn, if I can't reasonably guarantee that she'll go first again next turn.
Hope this helps!
 

[ShinChan]

13 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Welcome to my world...

I dunno, might rate Brewmaster more highly because he doesn’t need to flip a resist to get his debuffs rolling and brings a lot of 2” melee ranges, both good tools for coping with any flavor of butterfly jumping 2” melee range models. Also because of said jumping beans, I’m not sanguine about the potential of any gun line. Gunfighter is quite useless when you’re being stiff-armed by a long reach, and as noted you will get exactly one (1) activation of clear shots before being engaged.

Gracie makes me outright jealous though—Armor 2 and full wounds for her cost and Ride with Me?! Full disclosure, armor only slows down the beatdown: if the Nephilim cards are good enough they can tear through Augmented like armor isn’t even there, let alone a partially armored crew. Other people want to try it though and I’m happy to see them add to that data pool.

How would you use Brewmaster? I think it could really work out, but I believe that he needs to be quite experienced with the crew and I'm not (yet )

Regarding the range 2"  , I'm already taking it into account, you have:

• Ophelia has With My Eyes Closed, to put some damage or burn the enemy's hand, deliver a very much needed shielded to her family and reposition herself
• Sammy that can still attack with Jynx
• Gracie that can "Ride with me"
• François that has Ambush and Gremlin Menace
• Bokor that can still attack/Obey
• Pere's Breath of fire doesn't have the
• Raphael is the one with the biggest trouble, but that only means that you'll have to use 1 action to leave out of engagement with Agile.
• Rami: He has his free action
• BBB: Well, he should be fine there, he's not going to attack anyways.

With Sammy and the Bokor you should have the card advantage vs that crew, even if they have 2 ancient pacts. Specially if you bring BBB.

[Ogid]

It's not advice versus this particular list, but recently another Bayou player asked how to counter Nekima in the NVB forum, some of the advice could help in this particular scenario:

About this list, something easy to miss is the initiative. 6 models (so getting pass tokens easily) plus 2 Ancient pacts (+2 initiative) means Nekima may get 2 full activations (end turn 1, start turn 2) very consistently. That's 6 AP of a very hard hitting master (40% of her total APs in that game); this plus Nephilim mobility make that list hit first and hard.

The answer to this is anti-alpha strike tech. It's necessary then being able to avoid that initial damage take away too many important models or Nephs will snowball hard: including extra SS, defensive tech, and multiple models able to fight back to not being out of the game if an important beater is killed. Mind also the "Shove Aside" trigger when positioning models as it may be used to isolate something from suport models/auras. I'm not into bayou so not sure which are the good models for this tho.

[ShinChan]

1 hour ago, Ogid said:

It's not advice versus this particular list, but recently another Bayou player asked how to counter Nekima in the NVB forum, some of the advice could help in this particular scenario:

About this list, something easy to miss is the initiative. 6 models (so getting pass tokens easily) plus 2 Ancient pacts (+2 initiative) means Nekima may get 2 full activations (end turn 1, start turn 2) very consistently. That's 6 AP of a very hard hitting master (40% of her total APs in that game); this plus Nephilim mobility make that list hit first and hard.

The answer to this is anti-alpha strike tech. It's necessary then being able to avoid that initial damage take away too many important models or Nephs will snowball hard: including extra SS, defensive tech, and multiple models able to fight back to not being out of the game if an important beater is killed. Mind also the "Shove Aside" trigger when positioning models as it may be used to isolate something from suport models/auras. I'm not into bayou so not sure which are the good models for this tho.

That's one of the reasons I think that Som'er would be a good pick. He can bring enough bodies to make it quite hard for Nekima, while forcing her to choose between playing with 5 cards only in order to keep one to discard, or loose any pass tokens for initiative. At the same time, Old Cranky gives you a  that can make the difference vs that +1.

Also, every dead gremlin is a free card, that if it's low it's an out of activation shooting. If she tries to do an alpha strike, you can surround her with summoned Bayou Gremlins to make her impossible to move with IR. If they use their pass tokens to force you to activate before the alpha strike comes in, you can create a "barrier"  with two Spit Hogs (just summon 1) of almost 6" frontline, where she won't be able to charge due to Disguised and the base size (remember that you can still move through your Spit Hogs).

If Nekima comes for the alpha strike with a Mature and both of them are in  of the other one, a good idea would be to put a Gremlin Crier into position and charge later with Brig Brain Brin, stoning or using to force one to hit the other one, while delivering Slow. To set up this one you have a couple of tools, like the Obey in the Crier, the Lure in the Spit Hot and a couple of Knock Off triggers.

This list will be very dependant on the Strategy and Schemes (definitely a no-go for Reckoning), and your opponent could just ignore your bubble and go for the scheming, forcing you to adapt your strategy.

I can't speak about Zoraida because I don't have her and never played her. But definitely I don't see Tricksy shinning vs Nekima due to the amount of flight and how glass-cannon is the crew, although a Mechanized Porkchop with Bombs in its belly can become a big problem for the big beaters of the Nephilim, specially if you give him some shielded, if they hit you with a sever in the damage, you'll be taking 3 damages (armor +2 & shielded) and they would be taking 5 from the blast.

Wong is also an awful pick since he works with a bunch of squishy models.

I don't have enough experience in the table with Ulix or Brewmaster to offer an strategy or consider them as good picks, but Brewmaster has the advantage of lots of 2" ranges and lots of healing.

[Mxbedlam]

Mah. deploy way back. Put traps in front of juicy models to make butterfly jump hurt Nekima. Always use the shielded option on Mah. Plus Ill Omens to help counteract Ancient Pact. Use Mah and the bushwhacker's push triggers to make Matures and Nekima eat pit trap damage also focus shots to the face. Mah is a min 5 with a ram in hand and a stone.

 

[Nagi21]

On 1/29/2020 at 4:16 PM, ShinChan said:

That's one of the reasons I think that Som'er would be a good pick. He can bring enough bodies to make it quite hard for Nekima, while forcing her to choose between playing with 5 cards only in order to keep one to discard, or loose any pass tokens for initiative. At the same time, Old Cranky gives you a  that can make the difference vs that +1.

Also, every dead gremlin is a free card, that if it's low it's an out of activation shooting. If she tries to do an alpha strike, you can surround her with summoned Bayou Gremlins to make her impossible to move with IR. If they use their pass tokens to force you to activate before the alpha strike comes in, you can create a "barrier"  with two Spit Hogs (just summon 1) of almost 6" frontline, where she won't be able to charge due to Disguised and the base size (remember that you can still move through your Spit Hogs).

If Nekima comes for the alpha strike with a Mature and both of them are in  of the other one, a good idea would be to put a Gremlin Crier into position and charge later with Brig Brain Brin, stoning or using to force one to hit the other one, while delivering Slow. To set up this one you have a couple of tools, like the Obey in the Crier, the Lure in the Spit Hot and a couple of Knock Off triggers.

Som'er is a risky play depending on what you're bringing to the table.  Remember that both Nekima and the Mature's have Shove aside and very good weak/moderate damage.  Killing two or three of Som'er's per activation is not an unreasonable situation to be in.  Also remember that Hayreddin has easy blast damage and can summon tots off of black blood kills, which while weak for cost, are better than bayou gremlins and can grow into youngs or BBS in one activation if there's been enough murder on the table at that point.

[Ezuma]

At least you don't have to worry about Inhuman Reflexes anymore, although Nekima's crew is hard enough to beat that might not make a huge difference, but every now and then it'll mean you get the drop on her where before she could dart away 

[Mxbedlam]

The new schemes I think take this list apart. You are gonna have a much harder time killing everything and then scheming later. 

[LukeEngel]

There not using inhuman reflexes? Be way scarier. Main thing is to play with something you know that can put out some good damage and take a model that isn't easy to take down and use it to engage there models.  When playing against Nekima I've also learned make sure your models are correctly spread out to not take all that black blood damage.

[Rufess]

Did not expected the thread would be pushed up again.

As a player who suffer a lot from Nekima, I am more than happy to see her and her keyword struggle with the new GG S&S.

Want to share a game 2 months ago, playing Somer against Nekima with Lilith in a killy pool with Public Enemy, Assassinate and Let Them Bleed. I won 5-2. The opponent was not as skilled as the one I struggled with before, but still it was an exciting game that had proved Bayou can handle Nekima.

It was a brutal game that I tabled him at the end of turn 4 while had only 4 models left, with not more than 10 wounds in total. He charged to my deployment zone in the head of turn 1, and I could not pass through center line during the whole game.

The point when playing Somer into Nekima is to make use of their Black Blood in your advantage to trigger Pig-Eating Grin. And keep Lenny survive at any cost.