New Player Rules Questions

[Alex Chesterfield]

I'm a new player to Malifaux and have been trying to figure out how LoS works with terrain with height. I have read and reread the LoS rules, including the rules for terrain generating a shadow, but it doesn't answer all of my questions.

The Scenario: a size 2 model is standing on height 3 terrain and is within 1" of the edge of that terrain. The model draws line of sight from the terrain to a target on the table surface. According to the shadow rules, the model on the terrain ignores the first 1" of terrain for the purposes of determining LoS, so it can see and attack the lower model. However, the model on the table does not ignore that 1", and therefore cannot draw line of sight from its base to the higher targets base, so it cannot attack that model. Is that correct? Does that mean that a model on terrain with height cannot be targeted by a model below it, unless it's standing on the edge of the terrain, because that terrain's "floor" will always block LoS from base to base? Otherwise, how would you calculate this? What if the model moves back 2"? Does that change the calculation?

I also have a question about effects in general. When an effect does something to a model within x", does the model generating the effect need to have LoS to the other model? For example, Viktoria Chambers has the Tactical Action "East and West" which states that "Until the End Phase, while this model is not within 6" of another friendly Viktoria Chambers, its ranged attack actions receive a plus flip to their duels." Does that ability requires LoS? What if they are within 3" horizontally of one another, but one is inside a building, or with blocking terrain between them?

Thanks for the help!

[Adran]

Part 2 first. If it just says within 6" then no line of sight is needed. 6" or 6" would need line of sight.

Part 1 is more complex. I think the model standing on top of the terrain is not in the shadow, so for the rules is treated as ht 5 and so line of sight both ways will be possible as they ignore the ht 3 terrain. This will only change if one of the models moves to be in the shadow. 

[ReynardMiri]

5 hours ago, Adran said:

I think the model standing on top of the terrain is not in the shadow

I do not see anything in the rules that indicates the shadow does not extend vertically.

[solkan]

2 hours ago, ReynardMiri said:

I do not see anything in the rules that indicates the shadow does not extend vertically.

There’s three things:

1.  The second paragraph:

Quote

A terrain’s Shadow extends out from the terrain a distance equal to the terrain's Height, to a maximum of 3".

2.  For the next paragraph’s “When drawing sight lines from one model to another, if either model is in the Shadow of terrain with Height equal to or greater than the Size of that model (even partially)”, note that a model standing on that terrain will always be taller because of the Terrain With Height rule:  “If a model is standing on terrain with the Height Trait, it adds the Height of that terrain to its Size for the purposes of determining LoS.”

In other words, a Size 1 model standing on Ht 2 terrain is considered Size 3, so it can’t be ‘a model in the shadow of terrain with Height equal or greater than its size’ for that terrain.

3.  If you’re looking at the advanced building rules, a model standing on a floor (or rooftop) above a model on a lower floor, the building rules are trying to specify the special case that you don’t get to ignore the interior shadow if you’re trying to draw line of sight the floor.

[Alex Chesterfield]

On 1/29/2020 at 2:00 AM, solkan said:

There’s three things:

1.  The second paragraph:

2.  For the next paragraph’s “When drawing sight lines from one model to another, if either model is in the Shadow of terrain with Height equal to or greater than the Size of that model (even partially)”, note that a model standing on that terrain will always be taller because of the Terrain With Height rule:  “If a model is standing on terrain with the Height Trait, it adds the Height of that terrain to its Size for the purposes of determining LoS.”

In other words, a Size 1 model standing on Ht 2 terrain is considered Size 3, so it can’t be ‘a model in the shadow of terrain with Height equal or greater than its size’ for that terrain.

3.  If you’re looking at the advanced building rules, a model standing on a floor (or rooftop) above a model on a lower floor, the building rules are trying to specify the special case that you don’t get to ignore the interior shadow if you’re trying to draw line of sight the floor.

So does this mean that if a models is in the center of a 4"x4" rooftop, and another model is in base contact (or half an inch from base contact) with the building at table level, that the model on the table can shoot the model on the rooftop with no penalties? Not even cover?

[santaclaws01]

5 minutes ago, Alex Chesterfield said:

So does this mean that if a models is in the center of a 4"x4" rooftop, and another model is in base contact (or half an inch from base contact) with the building at table level, that the model on the table can shoot the model on the rooftop with no penalties? Not even cover?

No. The lower model is in the shadow of terrain with Height equal or greater than its Sz, so all sight lines are blocked.

[Mycellanious]

1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

No. The lower model is in the shadow of terrain with Height equal or greater than its Sz, so all sight lines are blocked.

All sight lines that pass THROUGH the terrain are blocked. Made that mistake in my first m3e game and lost my master turn 1...