Titania

[Ogid]

13 hours ago, goth said:

I would rather my Gorar become a Baby Kade or a Coppelius than a Rougarou any day.  This informs my hiring of them... Coppelius’ ‘frightening reminder’ slots in similarly with their ability and is faster, waaaay smaller makes a huyyuge difference, better at denying Harness Leyline.  Rougarou are necessary in an alpha rush list, IMO without them (talking about any non-henchman model in Fae really means talking about that model and Gorar and how that will interact with Killjoy pop-outs) Titania is half as scary - if a wise opponent sees even one I’m sure they’d consider spending pass tokens or moving just halfway and focusing... my problem is that I would rather have a black blood shaman than a Rougarou and I can’t take one of these infernal hounds without cursing myself for not having focus buff on it.  I have always wanted to use Tuco’s bonus make-them-walk action turns 1 and 2 to send models into lure range of Effigy/doppel/wisp whom were rougarou’d up first turn.

 

edit: with all the movement shenanigans of Titania, inhuman reflexes holders, widow weaver and bandersnatch, grootslang letting a doppel or changeling mimic lair-to-lair, blackblood shaman for sz 1 fly-with-me, hooded rider for sz 2 ride-with-me, Rougarou look to me like big traffic jam undead paperweight wolves that can get shot at from over buildings.  I would only bring them as a tech piece for the non-minion push... their damageness is incidental.

These are good options but most of them have different roles than a Rougarou; the only close case is Coppelius, who is also a good beater, has a enabling push and is fast. However octoface is 10SS for Titania taking in count the SS tax, more glassy than the wolf (any Focused attack may threaten him) and not faster taking in count Deadly pursuit; he has better denial tho. An maybe the Rider, but that's a 11 SS model much more sturdy but that doesn't hit that hard.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I do like Coppelius ook, but not for Titania. Terror is a big part of his card and paying his cost in a crew that doesn’t also have a great deal of terror means the opponent can basically just ignore that aspect of his card. I find him pretty good in Pandora, but not really in Titania.

[melkore]

On 1/28/2020 at 2:24 PM, santaclaws01 said:

Very few guns ignore cover and concealment, and even less ignore HtW as well(do any even?). 

Any focused Long Carbine ignores concealment and gets around hard to wound.  That makes Titania crews unhappy in general.

Clockwork Rifles + Advanced Sights (Hans, Katanaka Snipers, Freikorps Scouts, and Rami Lacroix) can focus on a stat 5 against a df 4 model and freely hit.  Probably cheating in a ram for crit strike for up to 6 damage.  From their deployment zone.

My opponents tend to be Outcast or crews that have access to at least a long carbine which has skewed my experience for sure.  5 factions have access to models that outright turn off Fae's defensive tech and some can do it from 21" away.

This just reinforces the need to stick closer to Wyrd's suggestion of 40-50% terrain.  Once we started playing on more filled out tables, I could take Rougaru and deliver them  to where I needed them to go without getting plinked by snipers on the way in.

[Maniacal_cackle]

28 minutes ago, melkore said:

This just reinforces the need to stick closer to Wyrd's suggestion of 40-50% terrain.  Once we started playing on more filled out tables, I could take Rougaru and deliver them  to where I needed them to go without getting plinked by snipers on the way in.

This part is particularly important. Some crews/matchups just stop being viable entirely with little terrain (Molly's Lethe's Caress, shooting, sorrows, etc).

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, melkore said:

Any focused Long Carbine ignores concealment and gets around hard to wound.  That makes Titania crews unhappy in general.

Clockwork Rifles + Advanced Sights (Hans, Katanaka Snipers, Freikorps Scouts, and Rami Lacroix) can focus on a stat 5 against a df 4 model and freely hit.  Probably cheating in a ram for crit strike for up to 6 damage.  From their deployment zone.

Ignore concealment or guns are rough for her, but getting around H2W needs both focused and something else that givesto damage (to get rid of the from accuracy). A focused long carbine needs to win the duel by 6+ to get a straight damage flip and the same happens with Clockwork rifles, none of these weapons have a puncture trigger. Also those snipers would need to expend Focused+2 (which is a lot of resources) to make a focused shot from the deployment zone that cannot guarante not to have a in the damage flip (The equivalent of 3 actions worth of AP for 2 damage, 3 with critical strike, is an awful trade for those snipers).

A Rougarou will probably get hit, but versus a Focused shot it's worth cheating a high moderate card (asuming a bad flip and cheating first) to make very hard/impossible a straight damage flip (so 2 damage most of the time). Those guns will have an easier time doing 3 damage with a critical strike trigger than trying to go for moderate/severe damage. And except a model using Snipe or 14'' guns making really good use of its range/terrain, any model attacking the Rougarou is going to get bitten in the booty hard, like 6-7 damage hard.

Also this depends on the role of that rougarou in the team, but when intended to play near of the crew those models won't be in the vanguard; Titania/Knights/Killjoy will be so any model trying to get them will have to get through the entire Fae crew or get close to the crew and get in threat range of those (and those may use underbrushes to displace the ofending models closer to the Rougarou). As discussed above this model hits hard but is a bit squishy, it's not wise positioning your glassy mele beaters in the vanguard and Rougarous can also use their AP early pushing other models to not get out of position early.

[Maniacal_cackle]

The puncture trigger is reasonably common, but I'm not seeing it on carbines.

1 hour ago, Ogid said:

Ignore concealment or guns are rough for her, but getting around H2W needs both focused and something else that givesto damage (to get rid of the from accuracy). A focused long carbine needs to win the duel by 6+ to get a straight damage flip

Rougarou only have <EDIT> 4 defense, so focused attacks are actually going to do this a fair bit of the time just from the flips (haven't calculated exact odds, but stat six and focused should have an average of winning by about 4 from memory), so that is going to get very card intensive very quickly.

I know, as Archie suffers the same problem and melts like butter if you let him get hit by stat six focused attacks (of course, in his case he just leaps away and hides behind terrain).

But for less maneuverable rougarou, I wouldn't be surprised if skilled players can make it very awkward to keep them alive.

They still look awesome on paper to me, but can see why some matchups would make it rough for them (especially if the table doesn't have enough blocking terrain to just stop shooting completely).

[Ogid]

My point is those weapons are a nuisance, but not something able to consistently deal with them. Versus a non-H2W if you are willing to expend the resources, you know with a focused shot you can almost guarantee a 5-6 damage hit (unless something bad happens like a terrible hand or BJ); versus a H2W model the other player has the call to let that happens or not at the expense of their own resources (if he flips badly). Focused is not cheap and denying the high damage potential of a Focused+1 (or +2 shot with Sniper) with a card is a big deal. Also those guns will have to deal first with the potential agresion of a first turn 6''-12'' pushed Titania/Killjoy/[Insert beater here].

A Rougarou under attack is going to die sooner or later of course and skilled players will make them a high priority target for how dangerous they are, but a skilled Titania player will use Rougarou's push and the crew displacements to keep them safe while killing/tying/displacing the models dangerous for them before commiting the wolf. Having a model with the damage potential and movement of the Rougarou is also good because the other player has to play around them or risk to lose models fast.

At the end of the day is all about preferences; nothing wrong with using a more tanky and less hitty option if glass cannons are not your thing.

[Math Mathonwy]

Has anyone compiled a handy list of models that can remove the Underbrush?

Bayou has

• Lucky Emissary (versatile)
• Mancha Roja (Infamous, so can be taken by Outcast Zipp as well)
• Wrastler (Infamous, so can be taken by Outcast Zipp as well)

I can't think of other options in the Bayou.

[Adran]

12 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Has anyone compiled a handy list of models that can remove the Underbrush

There is also Molly and Kaeris and gluttony. I think that's everything from all factions. 

 

[melkore]

Poltergeist with Telekinesis removes all markers within 4"

[goth]

Lotus eater monks can also destroy underbrush.