Titania

[Rosenbs25]

Brand new to the game and loving it. Bought Titania crew box with killjoy and hooded rider. Played against my friend playing Victoria's. Had a hard time playing against 2 masters. Question is it is strategic to deploy a lot of markers or how do u know you have enough. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

It is going to vary so much from board to board (terrain) and from matchup to matchup that the correct answer is probably just 'practice, practice, practice.'

I've only played with/against the crew a few times, but overall it seems like you want some markers to help with your own abilities (such as Into Thorns), and then a couple of strategic choke points around the board. There's not much use in spamming them, as your opponent can still walk around them and usually doesn't cost them that much.

But that said, if you really want to force a particular situation (for instance, if you know your opponent is probably taking claim jump, you can really gum up the centre of the board and get an advantage taking the centre), it can be worth spamming out markers.

[Ezuma]

12 minutes ago, Rosenbs25 said:

Brand new to the game and loving it. Bought Titania crew box with killjoy and hooded rider. Played against my friend playing Victoria's. Had a hard time playing against 2 masters. Question is it is strategic to deploy a lot of markers or how do u know you have enough. 

Welcome to the game! I have yet to play the Victorias so I won't offer anything on them in particular, but I very much recommend you purchase rougarous as soon as possible as they are one of the best models in keyword, and I field 1-2 every time I play Titania. As for your main question on the terrain markers, you should get one free per fae-keyword model, and definitely use all of those at the start to give yourself options down the road as well as hampering your opponent's movement. There are a lot of finer points to managing your resources that are hard to learn without playing a ton of games first, as for the underbrush markers I would say it will take you some time to know when to go out of your way to put one down vs when to get scheming or attacking. Expect to lose a lot, but try to learn from each loss and with each action always think 'how does this help me score?' 

[esqulax]

7 hours ago, Ezuma said:

purchase rougarous as soon as possible as they are one of the best models in keyword

I have seen this stated so much, and yet I don't really get it. Looking at their stat card all I see is a somewhat squishy, but decent beater. What am I missing ? 

[santaclaws01]

2 hours ago, esqulax said:

I have seen this stated so much, and yet I don't really get it. Looking at their stat card all I see is a somewhat squishy, but decent beater. What am I missing ? 

With IR they're pretty hard to pin down/force only 1 attack, and having HtW means focusing isn't even a great counter to butterfly jump. Defensive stats alone aren't amazing, but when they have Eat Your Fill, can deal 1 damage when charging, and then have 2 triggers to get around the likely negative flip from accuracy modifier without focusing, they're very likely to be able to kill things and heal up the damage that got dealt to them.

Then if you combine them with the Mysterious Emissary's hazardous terrain, each attack can cause an additional 1 damage thanks to the free 2" push.


They're effectively bullies to scheme runners and flanking models, or a good 2nd strike after Titania/Aeslin/The Emissary soften up a model from range. Or a good alpha strike to put the fear in your opponent after you deal at least 7 damage.

[LexLock]

All that stuff makes them takeable, what makes them potentially game winning is their intimidating roar, which can be used to push any friendly model up 12" on the first turn with two AP.

Rougarou are solid models that also give you another tool to work with if you need an alpha strike.

Try using Titania with butterfly jump pushed up 12" and given the blood sacrifice upgrade from killjoy so she can turn whatever she uses her  action on into hazardous by moving it under her. Then assuming you've brought a big cache to lean into the alpha strike you can start hitting them with effectively a 4/6/7 damage flip and they are not going to want to retaliate while in hazardous.

[Ogid]

13 hours ago, Rosenbs25 said:

Brand new to the game and loving it. Bought Titania crew box with killjoy and hooded rider. Played against my friend playing Victoria's. Had a hard time playing against 2 masters. Question is it is strategic to deploy a lot of markers or how do u know you have enough. 

Good advices overall. Aside for Rougarous (which are very good), another model worth to get asap is Serena, very good OOK model even if she will need some help with the underbrushes; that extra healing helps a lot.

Maybe you can also find useful advice in this other thread:

[melkore]

4 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

With IR they're pretty hard to pin down/force only 1 attack, 

That's a 10SS minion at that point.  You could hire Killjoy for 10, Hinamatsu for cheaper and can use SS, or for 1 more a Hooded Rider.

 

This might just be my own hang up but putting that much in to a model with abysmal defense and no way to reduce damage outside of HtW, smart opponents with guns won't let a Rougaru get close to their scheme runners.  It could be my meta, but if I declare Fae my opponent is bringing guns that ignore concealment and anything that ignores HtW.  It doesn't help that I usually play against Outcast so I see Hans a lot.  Nearly every faction  have guns that ignore concealment and/or cover.

[Regelridderen]

16 hours ago, Rosenbs25 said:

...Had a hard time playing against 2 masters. Question is it is strategic to deploy a lot of markers or how do u know you have enough. 

All crews have their strengths and the potential to give you a ‘hard time’.

..

The Viks strength is their enormous damage potential, when they’re together. So you need to separate them via Lure, Bring it! Or pushes. So you won’t suffer their triggers. Or simply deny their triggers via conditions.

Secondly the Viks are glass cannons, they rely on stones to carry them through to break your offense, so once you drain that resource, they’re wide open. If you can finish them off with an Execute trigger, you can even deny them their Demise ability. Another weakness is their middling WP 5, which means Terrifying and Wp attacks will drain their hand and blunt their attacks.

Their third and worst weakness is their inability to adapt. They will rush you, Vanessa will seek a position on the centreline etc. Other crews can adjust their strategy, but the Viks are only good at one thing. So just deny them the opportunity. Wait and prepare a trap for then, then you’re good to go.

[Ezuma]

2 hours ago, melkore said:

That's a 10SS minion at that point.  You could hire Killjoy for 10, Hinamatsu for cheaper and can use SS, or for 1 more a Hooded Rider.

 

This might just be my own hang up but putting that much in to a model with abysmal defense and no way to reduce damage outside of HtW, smart opponents with guns won't let a Rougaru get close to their scheme runners.  It could be my meta, but if I declare Fae my opponent is bringing guns that ignore concealment and anything that ignores HtW.  It doesn't help that I usually play against Outcast so I see Hans a lot.  Nearly every faction  have guns that ignore concealment and/or cover.

In that case you may well have a point, I tend to get a lot of work done with Rougarous (shooting Candy or Titania up the bored and then backing them up as a second line rather than rushing the wolf in usually) but I do think the chance of them getting taken out quickly is very real if you don't position carefully, or if your opponent is really hell-bent on it. For my money though the other keyword minions aren't all that great, with Bultungins dying to a stiff breeze, waldgeists having some limited uses but generally being slow, not that tanky and not putting out much damage. Autumn knights aren't bad but then they're also only 1ss less than a Rougarou and don't hit as hard or help you shoot key pieces around the board when needed, so definitely a different roll. I think you have a point about hiring Killjoy or Hinamatsu first and foremost, and I can't disagree with that: Hinamatsu in particular never lets me down, and if you are looking at a henchman vs a minion for similar cost, usually I would go with the Henchman (unless its Thoon).

[ShinChan]

8 hours ago, esqulax said:

I have seen this stated so much, and yet I don't really get it. Looking at their stat card all I see is a somewhat squishy, but decent beater. What am I missing ? 

The bring a lot of mobility to quite slow crew (except from Titania). They're also quite independent "card-wise", in a crew that really struggles since it doesn't have access to Arcane Reservoir or card draw, not even occasionally card draw. Really good scheme runners and anti-scheme runners

Once said so, I don't see them vs the Viks. They're more mobile than the Rougarous and they hit hard enough to kill them in a single activation, so you definitely don't want to have a 8/10ss minion dying like that.

I would bring armor in the form of Silent Knights, since they have HtW, Armor +, Df 6  and Parry, they can be problematic for your enemy. Your enemy probably is going to bring 1-2 Ronins, which you should kill if they plan to fight your armored guys.

I would bring the Emissary and Serena. The Emissary being hard to Kill and having Armor +1 can be a real problem for the Viks. Serena can attack targeting Wp and heals your people, so for me she's a must. If the Strategy/Schemes are related to killing, bring Wrath and bubble a bit. With "Bring It" and Violent Ghosts targeting Willpower, it adds a lot vs the Viks, while punishing the enemy for hurting your models.

Depending on the scheme pool, I would consider to leave Aeslin out, since it's an easy kill for them unless you're bringing a lot of stones to protect her. On the other hand, there some are Schemes that Aeslin can practically score alone: Detonate Charges, Harness the Ley Line, Search the Ruins, Dig Their Graves and the second part of Deliver a Message (although vs the Viks, I don't know if you want to leave them alive...).

Walgeist can be very annoying with all their triggers and forcing the enemy to burn a card to prevent stunned, but vs the Viks, the 1ss investment in a Knight is way more worth it.

Bultulgin, just no, they're really bad and don't bring anything useful vs the Viks.

The Hooded Rider is quite good as a beater, but you'll need to keep him safe until turn 3 and take advantage of the first two triggers of the Revel in Secrets. He can help you to prevent the Viks to dictate the combat, adding some extra mobility with Ride with me.

Killjoy: A decent pick, a bunch of damage but Df4 and you'll need 2 semi-durable minions to bring him back (which you'll need). I really like to put the upgrade in Waldgeists, so I'm not a big fan vs the Viks.

[santaclaws01]

3 hours ago, melkore said:

That's a 10SS minion at that point.  You could hire Killjoy for 10, Hinamatsu for cheaper and can use SS, or for 1 more a Hooded Rider.

All of whom, except maybe KJ, you would 100% have IR on anyways, making all of them more than 10ss.

 

3 hours ago, melkore said:

This might just be my own hang up but putting that much in to a model with abysmal defense and no way to reduce damage outside of HtW, smart opponents with guns won't let a Rougaru get close to their scheme runners.  It could be my meta, but if I declare Fae my opponent is bringing guns that ignore concealment and anything that ignores HtW.  It doesn't help that I usually play against Outcast so I see Hans a lot.  Nearly every faction  have guns that ignore concealment and/or cover.

Very few guns ignore cover and concealment, and even less ignore HtW as well(do any even?). Rougarou should always have defenses before you're ready to go in with them and rougarou have the mobility to threaten the flanks without actually being in them, which limits how your opponent can move their scheme runners.

[ShinChan]

1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

All of whom, except maybe KJ, you would 100% have IR on anyways, making all of them more than 10ss.

 

Very few guns ignore cover and concealment, and even less ignore HtW as well(do any even?). Rougarou should always have defenses before you're ready to go in with them and rougarou have the mobility to threaten the flanks without actually being in them, which limits how your opponent can move their scheme runners.

When I face NB with Inhuman Reflexes, since I know that many times I won't be able to attack 2, I just focus first and assure a decent amount of damage, so the upgrade loses a lot.

In addition, against the Viks, they can shoot the Rougarous out with a  to the shooting, while getting other minions pushed to him. If they go for the charge, they only need to use Dragon's Fang and hit you again without wasting an action on moving. If you go with the Rougarou vs their scheme runner (Ronin), you won't be able to kill a Ronin in a single activation most of the time, specially if the enemy positions properly, which means they're going to fight back, either with 1 Focused attack, 1  and 1  or they will just go for a mask and make sure they can do 1 focused attack (getting the  for the reposition) and a second  due to flurry.

I love the Rougarous, but against Viks I wouldn't bring them, unless the terrain helps and you need them for a specific scheme. They're going to dictate where the combat will happen due to their mobility, so you have take the hit, and take it back as hard as you can (putting injured is going to ease it).

[Ogid]

Each model has their strong points; Rougarous hit very hard, harder than Killjoy, the Rider (not counting the 5 masks triggers versus multiple targets tho) or Hinamatsu (this one can get very high damage, but with stoning for onslaught). All of those are tankier than the wolves tho.

Near of an underbrush 3 out of 4 possible suits will increase the damage and 2 of those triggers will enable a straight damage flip or being able to cheat in a damage track with 6 severe damage. And they have a built in push that goes well with the ping damage the crew may field (Hazardous underbrushes or Hungry land markers). And they also have the utility of the push, all of that in a quite fast model. They are a bit "glassy", but it's a fair trade for all they bring. .

IR is very good in them, specially because with the built in push they can also push models out of engagement range (and into Knights/underbruses), making most 2AP models unable to attack them in mele twice; but without it they can also work; just use other tankier models to engage or displace enemies before commiting them (like any glass cannon).

The other options are legit, but I wouldn't rule out Rougarous that fast.

Versus Viks in particular I agree the wolves are risky as they can be killed or presured with guns; but can also make them think twice where to engage because a counterattack with them is no joke and give more threat range to other models with the Push.

[santaclaws01]

1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

When I face NB with Inhuman Reflexes, since I know that many times I won't be able to attack 2, I just focus first and assure a decent amount of damage, so the upgrade loses a lot.

Congrats, you just counteracted HtW's negative modifier.

 

1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

In addition, against the Viks, they can shoot the Rougarous out with a  to the shooting, while getting other minions pushed to him.

Ok. You're going for a 2/4/5 damage track against HtW with master actions, and pushing models closer to the Rougarou so it doesn't have to waste an action walking towards them on a non-built in suit. Sounds like a pretty decent trade to me.

 

1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

If they go for the charge, they only need to use Dragon's Fang and hit you again without wasting an action on moving.

Yes, Viks can use their tactical action to push themselves and attack again if they have a 7  in hand/willing to stone. Again, not a bad trade off.

 

1 hour ago, ShinChan said:

If you go with the Rougarou vs their scheme runner (Ronin), you won't be able to kill a Ronin in a single activation most of the time, specially if the enemy positions properly, which means they're going to fight back, either with 1 Focused attack, 1  and 1  or they will just go for a mask and make sure they can do 1 focused attack (getting the  for the reposition) and a second  due to flurry.

This means that the Ronin has to say outside of 11" at the end of every turn. If my model is creating a ~24" bubble where your scheme runner can't go, I am perfectly fine with that. Additionally, 2/3/5 and 2/3/4 are not scary damage tracks even with focus thanks to HtW. The Ronin would need to hit puncture to be threat to the Rougarou's 9 Wds. Reposition doesn't help against IR either, it will be resolve first being the active model. Also, even if the Ronin is at 12", that still puts them in range to be hit with Intimidating Roar giving them slow and potential for the Rougarou to place into base contact.


Also there's always the option of keeping your crew together and thanks to Titania the most damage that can be dealt is moderates, which severely hampers the use of Focus and cuts down on the potential damage you can take. And if the Rougarou lives through the initial attack by a Vik, or a Vik goes on something else near enough to the Rougarou, that's either a dead Vik or a very heavily wounded one and the Vik player is down some stones and cards. Honestly if I'm going Titania into the Viks, I'll probably be using Titania and a good amount of stones to either bait out the initial assault from a Vik, or the Viks have to go a lot deeper into my crew than they can survive.

[Maniacal_cackle]

For viks specifically, just want to add support to Hinamatsu. The armor is so brutal against most of their crew. From memory, only ronin can bypass the armor, and you really don't want to be using Ronin against Hina.

Her onslaught will tear through them, and they want to be spending their time scheming, not going after one of the strongest beaters.

[Ogid]

In the fight Rougarou vs Ronnin my money is in the Rougarou; but it's also a 8SS (10SS with the upgrade) versus a 6SS model tho. Ronins are very good and H2K is a problem for the Rougarou that hit few times but very hard. To kill them in 1 activation it needs a Severe damage (something he can get with 2/4 triggers cheating a card even without Focused) plus an extra attack (With IR is a bit easier, Moderate with blade rush damage + an extra attack). Near of Hazardous markers / aura a Rougarou may one shot the Ronin with a Severe, but that's not reliable.

[Nagi21]

It really depends on what the pool is dictating.  Is it a pool that is mostly focused on murder with not many schemes in far off places?  The Rougarou are a bit too risky for my taste due to their defenses compared to something like Killjoy.  Are there a lot of schemes where you have to be in multiple places, with a strat like explosives?  Why are you playing Titania then!? (lol)  Joking aside, the Rougarou shine as a zoning piece, because they can beat just about anything smaller than it (reasonably), forcing your opponent to commit more than just a scheme runner to a part of the board. 

People underestimate the power of zoning tools in this game.  If I have to spend 8-9 stones on a model that will either deny you access to an important part of the board, or force you to fight at a disadvantage, that's money very well spent.  What I think trips everyone up is that if your opponent decides to fight with that disadvantage, it's still just a disadvantage.  Bad things happen and sometimes the cards luck out for the smaller model.  Doesn't make it a bad play, you just need to always have plan B, otherwise things can snowball and the model can seem useless.

Consider something like Thoon.  Everyone knows what he does, and everyone knows to be afraid of it.  That being said, to this day (about 8 games with the crew), I have yet to even make a melee attack with him, let alone actually frozen anything.  Does Thoon kill anything?  No.  Does he bury anything?  Nope.  Does he make sure that nobody wants to even remotely try and get over to the part of the board he is?  You're damn skippy.  At 9 stones he does nothing but sit there and do nothing but stare at the enemy and say "I dare you.", and he's worth every stone for it.  Same concept with a slightly squishier model.  

[ShinChan]

I'm not saying that the Ronin is going to kill the Rougarou, specially if the Rougarou has the IR upgrade, we're comparing an 8/10ss vs a 6ss model, of course the Rougarou is going to win in a 1 vs 1, but my point is that due to the mobility of the Ronin and the access to shooting, she is going to be the one dictating the engagement. If the Rougarou doesn't kill the Ronin in a single activation, then the Ronin will hit back (ofc not killing the Rougarou) and sacrifice for SS or cards while denying the "Eat your fill".

In the case the Rougarou stays in the "bubble", then I think that there are better investments for 8ss, and specially for 10ss.

[Ogid]

10 hours ago, Nagi21 said:

It really depends on what the pool is dictating.  Is it a pool that is mostly focused on murder with not many schemes in far off places?  The Rougarou are a bit too risky for my taste due to their defenses compared to something like Killjoy.  Are there a lot of schemes where you have to be in multiple places, with a strat like explosives?  Why are you playing Titania then!? (lol)  Joking aside, the Rougarou shine as a zoning piece, because they can beat just about anything smaller than it (reasonably), forcing your opponent to commit more than just a scheme runner to a part of the board. 

Agree, however Rougarou is also a good tech piece versus H2W, there isn't that many models with  to damage flips and no other with severe 6 damage in the faction. Give it Focused and he can really punish any undead; others beaters like Hinamatsu or Killjoy will have a harder time with these, specially versus Armored H2W models.

10 hours ago, Nagi21 said:

Consider something like Thoon.  Everyone knows what he does, and everyone knows to be afraid of it.  That being said, to this day (about 8 games with the crew), I have yet to even make a melee attack with him, let alone actually frozen anything.  Does Thoon kill anything?  No.  Does he bury anything?  Nope.  Does he make sure that nobody wants to even remotely try and get over to the part of the board he is?  You're damn skippy.  At 9 stones he does nothing but sit there and do nothing but stare at the enemy and say "I dare you.", and he's worth every stone for it.  Same concept with a slightly squishier model. 

Just out of curiosity, would be worth teleport-kick Thoon (with a gigant) to position him to bury something or is it too resources intensive/predictable?

[santaclaws01]

13 hours ago, ShinChan said:

but my point is that due to the mobility of the Ronin and the access to shooting, she is going to be the one dictating the engagement.

The Ronin isn't more mobile than the Rougarou, especially with underbrush markers around. But even the 12" of her gun puts her within the danger zone, and if you intended to use a model as a scheme runner, and that model kills itself before running schemes, that's still a net gain for the Titania player.

 

13 hours ago, ShinChan said:

In the case the Rougarou stays in the "bubble", then I think that there are better investments for 8ss, and specially for 10ss.

How many 8+ ss models can guarantee at least 6 damage with no prior action investment? That's what makes the Rougarou so good. A hooded rider or killjoy without any focus isn't as much of an immediate threat. With focus they get to roughly the same level. A beater can charge in to try and scalp out an important support piece and has a reasonable chance of weathering a turn against either of them or even Hina if it has Armor. The Rougarou will force your opponent to make a tough decision, do they want to sacrifice their beater for this knowing this is the only thing it will do this game.

[santaclaws01]

3 hours ago, Ogid said:

Just out of curiosity, would be worth teleport-kick Thoon (with a gigant) to position him to bury something or is it too resources intensive/predictable?

It's good, you just have to get the timing right so that Thoon doesn't get blown up first and you have a chance to get the pillar away from enemies. The best time to do it would probably be after a model moves and is "safely" outside of Thoon's threat range, then you have a Cyclops or Euripides plop a pillar down next to them and punt Thoon over there. Probably actually a good way to deal with Seamus since he can get fairly far from the rest of his crew after turn 1 even.


And then there's also the Lucius shenanigans of having 3 models that can potentially use Frozen Trophy, two of which can be told to use it outside activation.

[ShinChan]

2 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

The Ronin isn't more mobile than the Rougarou, especially with underbrush markers around. But even the 12" of her gun puts her within the danger zone, and if you intended to use a model as a scheme runner, and that model kills itself before running schemes, that's still a net gain for the Titania player.

 

How many 8+ ss models can guarantee at least 6 damage with no prior action investment? That's what makes the Rougarou so good. A hooded rider or killjoy without any focus isn't as much of an immediate threat. With focus they get to roughly the same level. A beater can charge in to try and scalp out an important support piece and has a reasonable chance of weathering a turn against either of them or even Hina if it has Armor. The Rougarou will force your opponent to make a tough decision, do they want to sacrifice their beater for this knowing this is the only thing it will do this game.

First, I would like to say again that I think that Rougarous are really good, but I'm defending my opinion that I don't see them as a "must" pick vs the Viks, and I would go for something else.

Regarding your first comment, being more than 7" from the Rougarou means that he won't be able to kill the Ronin in a single activation. This gives the Ronin another possible round of damaging the Rougarou and recover 2ss while denying the Eat your fill.

[goth]

I would rather my Gorar become a Baby Kade or a Coppelius than a Rougarou any day.  This informs my hiring of them... Coppelius’ ‘frightening reminder’ slots in similarly with their ability and is faster, waaaay smaller makes a huyyuge difference, better at denying Harness Leyline.  Rougarou are necessary in an alpha rush list, IMO without them (talking about any non-henchman model in Fae really means talking about that model and Gorar and how that will interact with Killjoy pop-outs) Titania is half as scary - if a wise opponent sees even one I’m sure they’d consider spending pass tokens or moving just halfway and focusing... my problem is that I would rather have a black blood shaman than a Rougarou and I can’t take one of these infernal hounds without cursing myself for not having focus buff on it.  I have always wanted to use Tuco’s bonus make-them-walk action turns 1 and 2 to send models into lure range of Effigy/doppel/wisp whom were rougarou’d up first turn.

 

edit: with all the movement shenanigans of Titania, inhuman reflexes holders, widow weaver and bandersnatch, grootslang letting a doppel or changeling mimic lair-to-lair, blackblood shaman for sz 1 fly-with-me, hooded rider for sz 2 ride-with-me, Rougarou look to me like big traffic jam undead paperweight wolves that can get shot at from over buildings.  I would only bring them as a tech piece for the non-minion push... their damageness is incidental.

[Ogid]

3 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Probably actually a good way to deal with Seamus since he can get fairly far from the rest of his crew after turn 1 even.

It's a good idea; but Seamus has to be tricky versus Euripides as he can use the pilars to teleport.

3 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

And then there's also the Lucius shenanigans of having 3 models that can potentially use Frozen Trophy, two of which can be told to use it outside activation.

This is definitely in my list of crews to try, It could work well versus Elite lists. Anyone gave it a go? Technically all of them could use it outside of the activation (Lawyer).