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Zebo

FAQ that seems never come to an agreement.

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Hello everybody, I started this thread in the Outcast forum because I didn't knew exactly where to put it, so let's try here and include every faction. This is mostly to have a kind of "record" Of which questions seems to not have a clear answer, or at least not everybody seem to agree on the same application of the rules. 

 

Not about errating/buffing/nerfing models, but fixing things that may not be clear on seem not to be used as intended due to wording. 

 

For example

General actions are considered to be "actions of models"? Like Hannah copying herself to do a charge with a :ToS-Fast:action.

When targeting a model with an action, must the model be considered to be "Friendly" Or "Enemy" During the whole action? Like attacking a Guilty with a Tormented model and relent, but triggering a "enemy only" Trigger. 

When multiple models are replaced by a single model, and some but not all of those models have activated, is the new model considered to have activated? Like Hamelin using "Unclean Influence" to make one Rat King replace 4 Malifaux Rats, but one of those Malifaux Rats has already activated. 

When one enemy Scheme Marker is dropped within 6" Of two models with Wanted Criminal, how many cards do you draw? 

How does the Necrotic Decay trigger work with models that have natural damage reduction? The only current model this effects is Ashes & Dust with Incorporeal, but it would also effect any future model with Armour, Shielded, or one that can use Soul Stones.

clarifications on the replace rules would be nice. That way we can know for sure how out of activation replaces are supposed to work. Especially with Hamelin using his bonus action to cause tangled together for a rat king - can (multiple) instances of the extra action carry over, for instance?

I feel Levi being able to sac himself with his bonus action is pretty obviously legal. But a faq confirming that would put out the rumours.

We also probably need some feedback on how Leveticus damage and Hoffman's trigger to make armor unable to be ignored work together. I'm in the camp that Leveticus still gets full damage since the exact wording of irreducible damage says that it can't be reduced, not that it ignores reduction. 

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38 minutes ago, Zebo said:

 I'm in the camp that Leveticus still gets full damage since the exact wording of irreducible damage says that it can't be reduced, not that it ignores reduction. 

This seems a good place for the discussion

This quote is wrong. I know you're quoting someone else, but it is factually incorrect.  The actual wording is the exact opposite, it says that it ignores damage reduction not that the damage can't be reduced. ( page 28 electronic rules). 

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Great thread! Here's some more:

  • Burying a model that is already buried... You ignore the bury effect... Do you ignore just the bury, or the entire ability/surrounding effects?
  • What qualifies as an effect in general?
  • Page 34 damage timing... Some concrete examples and workthroughs would help heaps.
  • Stitched together - how does replacing multiple cards with Fiendish Gamble work?
  • Life leech - how does it stack? (Current leading consensus is each model heals, and one damage for the model activating).
  • Misery - who gets to decide which misery aura applies if multiple Miseries are relevant (their is optional language associated with Misery, but it is not entirely clear whether the optional language refers to the entire effect or to the options of the effect).
  • When do requirements have to be met for an ability (for example, crooligans fading + philip and the nanny. In fact, an example of resolving Molly's bonus action around every fading model would be helpful).
  • When do you measure things (at effect generation or effect resolution? Or does it depend on whether it is a requirement or doing something? For example, starting activation within 1" of an ice pillar vs. remove a scheme marker within 2" when you discard a card).
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At what point in a duel sequence does Luck Theif fire? Before or as modifiers are generated for the duel, or only after all modifiers have been generated and the math done to see what the total actual modifier is, and then Luck Thief only applies to that modifier

If you use focus to shoot at a model with Luck Thief who is affected by friendly fire do you:

1) Apply the Luck Thief rules at step d. In the perform duels sequence, so that any modifiers generated are affected but that rule, so that the final modifier is a double negative flip.

2) Generate the modifiers, do the math to determine a final actual modifier, and then apply Luck Theif to that modifier, so that the final modifier is a straight flip?

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Wong vs. Pigapult.  They have similar but different wording.  Do they actually work the same way?  Which way is that?

Are start of activation effects triggered at *any* point during a model's start activation phase?  Or does the triggering event happen once, then everything resolves in whatever order (see Vogel vs Beast swapping back and forth)

Crooligan start of activation timing is confusing.  This sort of builds off the "what is an effect" question, but if it could be spelled out if the marker is removed before or after the place, it would help a lot.

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This is a good idea for a thread 👍

Misery and Life leech I think are clear, but they are asked frecuently (especialy Mysery) so a FAQ would help.

The pg 34 timings is something that needs clarifications on how to apply that badly; because it changes how a lot of interactions works.

From the top of my head to add to this list:

  • Lelu/Lilitu/Hayredin undying combo.
  • Healing and Damage: How to handle ignored damage/healing (for things like Drink Blood for example)
  • Effects at the start of an activation. Is it a point or new added effects are also resolved (the Vogel/Beast moonwalk case)
  • Replace effects outside of the activation (the Coryphee / Rat king case). If 1 of the models is activated but not all of them, the new model is activated or not?
  • Multiple recharge SS aura near of a dying model. Does it stack?
  • Once per activation effects during the start phase (Misery + Tangled Threads interaction)
  • Mimic clarifications: Suits and fate modifiers? How effects that modify how "This model" use an action can modify those copied actions in both sides (the model with the action and the mimic)
  • (this would be resolved with the pg 34 timings tho). Butterfly Jump and Reposition trigger in Wicked attacks.

And there are probably more I fail to recall now...

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