Zipp in OC

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Sol_Sorrowsong said:

Could you explain this synergy in more detail? I've never thought about a prospector for anything more than collecting soulstones.

If you can get the prospector to create an enemy scheme marker from the appraisal action, (drawign a card in the process) then the First mate can remove it with his bonus action to draw 2 more cards.

[Ming]

There's no point in taking a Prospector solely for SS generation - they cost 6 and will generate 1 SS per turn. If we are lucky, there will be enemy markers for gaining SS via Interact. And often you need the stones right now, not in a few turns.

[Jafar]

2 hours ago, Ming said:

There's no point in taking a Prospector solely for SS generation - they cost 6 and will generate 1 SS per turn. If we are lucky, there will be enemy markers for gaining SS via Interact. And often you need the stones right now, not in a few turns.

I think that those are good models if there are any scheme markers schemes / strategy. They can easily discard enemy stuff and draw cards, moreover at same time adding some defense to our scheme markers.  

[Ming]

Sure, they are very good, you just need to utilize them in different ways.

[OhRlyeh]

7 hours ago, S4lt said:

Prospectors are so much more than that. I think the OP was mainly referring to their soulstone generation allowing FM to leap and strike every turn. 

They are great models for detonate the charges because of the different ways they drop scheme markers. Amazing at card draw in a crew that already has access to good card cycling so your hand is often well above average. 

I will always take 1, often 2 in a Zipp crew 

Yup that is true. FM is really stone hungry he generally uses a SS every turn if not more. So with a Prospector you can run a Zipp crew with 3 or 4 ss to start and still get full potential out of FM.
S4lt is right tho, they are just great scheme runners on top of their SS generation.

[Caver Ramos]

Zipp in outcasts is downright unfair, I love him very much and have used him in very high profile matches to great success.

Outcasts can take adavantage of every trick in the zipp back in a way bayou really cant. 

IMHO Zipp main obstacle is his lack of genuine killer models outside of mancha roja who has the problem of being size 3 in a crew where being size 2 is a godsend. Outcasts provide Zipp with a lot of high octane size 2 killer models that can take full advantage of the things the captain brings to the table.

 

What does the captain bring to the table? What is the trump card of the nefarious pirate? The IRON SKEETERS.

 

Iron skeeters in outcasts are the best utility model in the game, since they provide outcasts with a scheme runner that can also offer true keyword independent support and is easy to use and abuse.

 

Outcasts have a wealth of murder machimes that have one glaring flaw, utter and complete lack of mobility.

Lets look at johan for example, he is a one man wrecking ball, that moves slower than dirt, well not any more, with iron skeeter taxi and smokescreen agency johan can reach the frontlines mostly unscated and deliver ungodly ammounts of pain to anybody, which is great. We are talking about giving johan a reusable 7 inches boost in mobility here, something that according to malifaux is worth at least 2 soulstones. And that is without considering how utterly broken skeeters are as scheme runners.

 

Look at bishop, another murder machine with a huge issue called 0" engagement range accompanied with average mobility, with an iron skeeter that stops being a problem. As bishops suddenly gets a 12" charge range that can bring 3 attacks to anything you need murdered. Granted, you have to pay 10 points for him but he is amazing once you can get him into melee in a fast and safe way.

Another murder machine is the midnight stalker, who can easily reach the opponent half of the board on turn one and be a permanent thorn on your oponnents side from then on with 3 ap and leap for a murder machine that is also a scheme runner.

The last and most important model i see zipp having a great ammount of sinergy with is Rusty Alice, a murder machine on his own right that can and should become godlike with zipp. See ideally ale should be played as an executioner turret, using his 3 pseudo ap on removing targets from the boards and nothing else. This means alyce should never ever waste actions in moving, and that you should have an Iron skeeter taxi and smokescreen agency parked around her from turn 1 to take her to wherever she needs to be, particularly if you find any birds nest like location in the map(an elevated piece of terrain with a little line of sights restrictions). Park Alyce there with a hand stacked of ravens and under certain circunstances it could be GG. This is where alyce fits better in zipps crew than in even her own. Zipp and all of his crew have showboating. Which means you can provide alyce with 3 ravens and a discarding for shoot card without actually taxing your hand in any serious way. This obvioulsy means that alyce should be the last model to activate in a crew, but if you pull the 3 raven offensive off you are talking about probably removing 3 models a turn(a third of most crews a turn) and you could realistically pull that off once or twice per game. Which is bananas, combined with every other murder machine you have we are talking about tabling your oponent while having spare turns to score unoposed.

Also Zipp himself is no slouch either in combat, i have used him to great succes as a solo piece in a parker barrows crew once, He broke my oponents center almost by himself while also scoring claim jump.

And this is the great part, with Zipp you can focus on murdering AND scheming at the same time without being less effective in either one as a result. Since Zipp has acces for free to Earl Burns, the most broken scheme runner in the game when next to an iron skeeter.

The idea of having 3 3 AP models roaming the board from turn 2 onwards, plus a murder machine in the backfield taking potshots with regenerating hand and flying is just psichologically breaking to your oponent as well demoralizing him wins you games for sure. Bayou cannot provide him with this tools for the jobs.

 

Overall I approach outcast zipp in the same way Al Davis(RIP) thought about football"We dont focus on getting first downs, we focus on scoring touchdowns with the vertical pass". With zipp I dont focus on scoring one or two schemes. I focus on utterly dominating the battlefield by applying high octane pression and aggression first with bishop, alyce and the stalker to murder my enemy and while they are getting massacred burns goes sillently scoring schems without nobody noticing the pesky totem. And the best part is, Zipp is not really a centerpiece in this crew, he is more of a free 3 AP model you get. 

As much as this sound super megalomaniacal, i do think outcast Zipp is the best master in the faction and one of the best in the game, that is super straightforward and fun to play. With Zipp you enter the "No flips just fists" portion of malifaux in a way that is very taxing to counter for an opponent.

[Jesy Blue]

"No flips just fists".... I could kiss you!

 

[Zebo]

3 hours ago, Caver Ramos said:

Zipp in outcasts is downright unfair, I love him very much and have used him in very high profile matches to great success.

Outcasts can take adavantage of every trick in the zipp back in a way bayou really cant. 

IMHO Zipp main obstacle is his lack of genuine killer models outside of mancha roja who has the problem of being size 3 in a crew where being size 2 is a godsend. Outcasts provide Zipp with a lot of high octane size 2 killer models that can take full advantage of the things the captain brings to the table.

Don't forget that a Skeeter with Two Gremlin in a Ghillie Suit can deliver Mancha Roja, Gracie or any other sz3 model. 

What does the captain bring to the table? What is the trump card of the nefarious pirate? The IRON SKEETERS.

 

Iron skeeters in outcasts are the best utility model in the game, since they provide outcasts with a scheme runner that can also offer true keyword independent support and is easy to use and abuse.

 

Outcasts have a wealth of murder machimes that have one glaring flaw, utter and complete lack of mobility.

Lets look at johan for example, he is a one man wrecking ball, that moves slower than dirt, well not any more, with iron skeeter taxi and smokescreen agency johan can reach the frontlines mostly unscated and deliver ungodly ammounts of pain to anybody, which is great. We are talking about giving johan a reusable 7 inches boost in mobility here, something that according to malifaux is worth at least 2 soulstones. And that is without considering how utterly broken skeeters are as scheme runners.

Johan is already a Infamous model, so no need of making Zipp Outcast to deliver him with Iron Skeeters. 

Look at bishop, another murder machine with a huge issue called 0" engagement range accompanied with average mobility, with an iron skeeter that stops being a problem. As bishops suddenly gets a 12" charge range that can bring 3 attacks to anything you need murdered. Granted, you have to pay 10 points for him but he is amazing once you can get him into melee in a fast and safe way.

Battle Tempo, Chain Gang and 3 ap is IMHO far from being "average mobility".

Another murder machine is the midnight stalker, who can easily reach the opponent half of the board on turn one and be a permanent thorn on your oponnents side from then on with 3 ap and leap for a murder machine that is also a scheme runner.

Never knew no one calling the Midnight Stalker "murder machine"

The last and most important model i see zipp having a great ammount of sinergy with is Rusty Alice, a murder machine on his own right that can and should become godlike with zipp. See ideally ale should be played as an executioner turret, using his 3 pseudo ap on removing targets from the boards and nothing else. This means alyce should never ever waste actions in moving, and that you should have an Iron skeeter taxi and smokescreen agency parked around her from turn 1 to take her to wherever she needs to be, particularly if you find any birds nest like location in the map(an elevated piece of terrain with a little line of sights restrictions). Park Alyce there with a hand stacked of ravens and under certain circunstances it could be GG. This is where alyce fits better in zipps crew than in even her own. Zipp and all of his crew have showboating. Which means you can provide alyce with 3 ravens and a discarding for shoot card without actually taxing your hand in any serious way. This obvioulsy means that alyce should be the last model to activate in a crew, but if you pull the 3 raven offensive off you are talking about probably removing 3 models a turn(a third of most crews a turn) and you could realistically pull that off once or twice per game. Which is bananas, combined with every other murder machine you have we are talking about tabling your oponent while having spare turns to score unoposed.

Also Zipp himself is no slouch either in combat, i have used him to great succes as a solo piece in a parker barrows crew once, He broke my oponents center almost by himself while also scoring claim jump.

And this is the great part, with Zipp you can focus on murdering AND scheming at the same time without being less effective in either one as a result. Since Zipp has acces for free to Earl Burns, the most broken scheme runner in the game when next to an iron skeeter.

The idea of having 3 3 AP models roaming the board from turn 2 onwards, plus a murder machine in the backfield taking potshots with regenerating hand and flying is just psichologically breaking to your oponent as well demoralizing him wins you games for sure. Bayou cannot provide him with this tools for the jobs.

 

Overall I approach outcast zipp in the same way Al Davis(RIP) thought about football"We dont focus on getting first downs, we focus on scoring touchdowns with the vertical pass". With zipp I dont focus on scoring one or two schemes. I focus on utterly dominating the battlefield by applying high octane pression and aggression first with bishop, alyce and the stalker to murder my enemy and while they are getting massacred burns goes sillently scoring schems without nobody noticing the pesky totem. And the best part is, Zipp is not really a centerpiece in this crew, he is more of a free 3 AP model you get. 

As much as this sound super megalomaniacal, i do think outcast Zipp is the best master in the faction and one of the best in the game, that is super straightforward and fun to play. With Zipp you enter the "No flips just fists" portion of malifaux in a way that is very taxing to counter for an opponent.

All that said, I agree with you on Zipp being the strongest Master in Outcast (our at least one of the best). 

And Skeeters can also carry Mad Dog or (my favourite) Arik Schottemer (and Arik can charge through pianos, so more shenanigans). 

Could someone explain the meaning (or origin) of "No flips just fists" Phrase? 

[RisingPhoenix]

Zipp is stronger in Bayou.  There's really no question.  Bayou's versatile models are very, very good.  Outcast's are mostly just okay, and none of them really sing to me with Zipp.  Pride likes to be with a bubble, for instance, and Hans is really really immobile, and Zipp's plan is not "sit and wait for things to come to him".  Also Bayou's upgrades are great.  Inferiority Complex is one of the best upgrades in the entire game - I'd happily swap any of Outcast's upgrades to take that one.  

Now there's some nice out of keyword stuff you can take in Zipp.  Rusty Alyce is death on two legs.  Ashes and Dust is a fast beatstick (of course Zipp has First Mate and Mancha Roja, so does he need that?).  Hannah is a beast with 3 AP and Arcane Reservoir (although is she better than Mancha Roja out of keyword?).  But generally if you wanted to solo-master Zipp, I'd do it in Bayou.  

As an Outcast master though?  Yeah, he's just fine.  

 

(I'm getting a sneaking suspicion Bayou might be low-key the best faction)

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure you can't take Two Gremlins in a Ghillie Suit in Outcasts, no matter which master you declare.  So Iron Skeeters are only carrying Sz 1 models.   Also I'd swap Emmissaries with Bayou in a heartbeat.  Hodgepodge is a fine model, but Lucky is flat nuts.  Good god that model is ridiculous.

[CD1248]

57 minutes ago, RisingPhoenix said:

I'm pretty sure you can't take Two Gremlins in a Ghillie Suit in Outcasts, no matter which master you declare.  So Iron Skeeters are only carrying Sz 1 models

Skeeters are Sz3 naturally.

[RisingPhoenix]

Oh right.  Someone was talking about needing that upgrade to carry something.  

[Caver Ramos]

12 minutes ago, RisingPhoenix said:

Oh right.  Someone was talking about needing that upgrade to carry something.  

You need it to carry mancha roja in Bayou, that's why I don't like Mancha un Outcast Zipp. He brings killing power but is seriously hampered for mobility in an alpha strike crew.

 

"No flips just fists" is the motto of a professional tag team called The revival. It's a response to the criticism that wrestling is becoming "Flippy shit". Which means a spectacle mostly based on flips, gimmicks and spectacle instead of phisical aggression and technique. The revival is looking to bring wrestling back to its root as a spectacle based on technique and holds instead of gimmicks.

Zipps crew is to me similar in spirit. It doesn't have any overly gimmicky mechanic or tricks for big plays that care to much about order of activation.  Outcast Zipp is more about a consistent blitzing of the opponent's through movement and killing power.

No flips, no spectacle, just a fist pounding you and looting your valuables like a true pirate

[Jafar]

12 hours ago, Caver Ramos said:

Zipp in outcasts is downright unfair, I love him very much and have used him in very high profile matches to great success.

One of best posts in topic. Of course there can be other tactics (even better ones) for Zipp in OC, but it gives great "out of the box" plan to play this master and basic "crew" idea.

For me it's perfect  Thank you 

[Jesy Blue]

11 hours ago, Caver Ramos said:

You need it to carry mancha roja in Bayou, that's why I don't like Mancha un Outcast Zipp. He brings killing power but is seriously hampered for mobility in an alpha strike crew.

I always used it for moving the Lucky Emissary... rolling death carried passed your own Piano Markers.

Too bad you can't move Hodgepodge that way; that +1 Mv is great turn 1 for all the flying folks... after that, he's just a point sink that can't keep up in Infamous.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

12 hours ago, Caver Ramos said:

Zipps crew is to me similar in spirit. It doesn't have any overly gimmicky mechanic or tricks for big plays that care to much about order of activation.  Outcast Zipp is more about a consistent blitzing of the opponent's through movement and killing power.

No flips, no spectacle, just a fist pounding you and looting your valuables like a true pirate

You sold me on Zipp!

[Trample]

17 hours ago, Caver Ramos said:

Iron skeeters in outcasts are the best utility model in the game, since they provide outcasts with a scheme runner that can also offer true keyword independent support and is easy to use and abuse.

 

Outcasts have a wealth of murder machimes that have one glaring flaw, utter and complete lack of mobility.

 

One of my favorites is Mad Dog. The Skeeter (or a pair of Skeeters - or Gracie and then a pair of Skeeters) can get Mad Dog where he needs to be and the last one can usually drop a scheme marker to allow Mad Dog to gain fast. He is similar in a lot of ways to Alyce, but where she excels at killing single models Mad Dog thrives on groups and armored opponents. He takes a bit more setup in that you have to drop the marker, as opposed to Alyce's rapid fire, but he can do a lot of work. The Drop It trigger on his gun gives you more opportunity for free loot as well. 

Taelor is probably good too if you encounter ruthless opponents, but I haven't tried her with Zipp. 

[Jafar]

Saw few games, had few discussions :P

I think that right now Zipp in OC is all about "Taxi for Killer models" (Bishop, Taelor, Rusty, Mad Dog etc). Of course, you can counter pick many things (conditions, markers etc.) but having zipp and bishop in enemy face T1 with some chance to draw cards is epic.

I think this is a good pic to suprise your enemy

[trikk]

I think he's more about mobility and distruption. You can put a lot of Pianos to hide Mad Dog behind (and give him concealment) and the crew is very hard to pin down due to concealment combined with movement tricks.

[jovialevil]

I played my first game with Captain Zipp.  I wanted to use his whole crew box (I like to max out on minions for my first game so that I have fewer stat cards to read) and decided to take Arik with my remaining soulstones.

 

Arik seems like an excellent companion for Zipp.  Gravity Well prevents the sort of shenanigans that would let enemies ignore pianos, Arik is small enough to be carried by mosquitoes, he punches things very hard if you give him focus, and he gets to fly once per turn (with diving charge), so your pianos won't box him in.

[LexLock]

14 hours ago, jovialevil said:

I played my first game with Captain Zipp.  I wanted to use his whole crew box (I like to max out on minions for my first game so that I have fewer stat cards to read) and decided to take Arik with my remaining soulstones.

 

Arik seems like an excellent companion for Zipp.  Gravity Well prevents the sort of shenanigans that would let enemies ignore pianos, Arik is small enough to be carried by mosquitoes, he punches things very hard if you give him focus, and he gets to fly once per turn (with diving charge), so your pianos won't box him in.

11ss for eight wounds worries me, better hope they don't have too much armour ignore. I guess Earl can heal him given he's a construct, which makes it a bit less of a problem and you can't really put a price tag on Gravity Well in the right matchup.

[Thatguy]

On 2/6/2020 at 6:16 AM, Jesy Blue said:

after that, he's just a point sink that can't keep up in Infamous.

I thought the ranged slow would work really well with all zipp's push and places. 

 

I really want to try Zipp with Montressor too. Batting people back into Montressor's stagger aura. 

[Jesy Blue]

Really the only actions it takes are moving, scheming and healing; never get a chance to shoot because other stuff scores points.

With Montressor, he's the only thing giving out Staggered, unless you're hiring more ook stuff, then at that point just play Tormented. Unless you're playing against a traditional summoner using upgrade cards, then he's a great tech pick.

[touchdown]

A combo with Hans, Montresor and Zipp could be fun. Handing out staggered and throwing them into his aura. You could be doing 2 unresisted damaged per turn to multiple models.

[Thatguy]

On 1/29/2020 at 4:16 PM, kross1 said:

I just wanna see someone play this:

Zipp

Earl

Von Schill

Mancha Roja

Wrastler

Wrastler

Wrastler

Just sayin'...

 

Man. Now I want to make a big wrestling ring piece of terrain. Lol

 

[kross1]

Nah, it would have to be arena with stands, entrance ramp, boxing ring, and, of course, the gremlin announcers table would have to be destructible.....