Elevation vs Pulse and Shockwave

[ezramantis]

How do Pulses and Shockwaves (also pulses) interact with models and elevation?

Does a pulse extend vertically to an infinite height?  Or is there a limit?  The Size of the model or object generating the Pulse?  The Pulse rules offer no clarification that I could see.

We had a situation last night where a model was on a ht 2 building.  A Shockwave (2) was dropped right next to the building.  The model was within 2" of the marker horizontally.  (For visual reference you can use the picture of Dashel and Parker on pg 18 of the rulebook.  Dashel represents the Shockwave Marker and Parker the model).

I reasoned that it depended on whether the Marker had LoS to the model.  The building had the blocking trait so it would block LoS, but I haven't experienced too much of the new elevation rules so I consulted the rulebook.

According to the rules "When drawing LoS between two objects, any intervening models or terrain with a Size or Height that is lower than either of the two objects is ignored."  So the Height 2 building is lower than the Ht2 + Sz2 model on the roof so LoS is not blocked.  The Shockwave's Pulse would effect the model, right?  It as LoS and is in Range.

But the Shockwave is in the Shadow of the building, so the LoS is blocked, since "if either model is in the Shadow of terrain with Height equal to or greater than the Size of that model..., any sight lines that pass through the terrain generating that Shadow are blocked" (Shadow rules pg 18).  So there is no LoS.  The Shockwave's Pulse would not effect the model.

Except this:  (pg 28)  "Unless otherwise noted, Markers....have no vertical distance (ie., Height or Size)" and so figuring LoS using rules that refer to the Size or Height of objects that have no Size or Height leaves questions in my mind.  Do Shockwave Markers ONLY effect objects and models on the same elevation?  If they had Size of 0 they could add the Height of the terrain they were on to figure LoS.  But they don't.  So I'm assuming LoS is ALWAYS blocked by any difference in elevation.

The Shadow rules also refer to "models", not "objects".  But I assume that the intent is that the rules apply to objects (such as Markers) as well regardless of the exact wording?

Also:  if the model had been within 1" of the edge of the terrain, it would ignore the terrain it was on.  That would give the model LoS to the Marker, but does it also give the Marker LoS to the model?

[Adran]

Line of sight is two way (unless special rules apply) so if the marker can see the model, the model can see the marker.

The Marker rules tell us that the marker is treated as a Ht 0 object if you are drawing line of sight, (its down at the bottom of the bullet points on page 28).

 

So hope that helps you answer. Treat it as a ht 0 model for calculating line of sight

[Nagi21]

3 hours ago, Adran said:

Line of sight is two way (unless special rules apply) so if the marker can see the model, the model can see the marker.

The Marker rules tell us that the marker is treated as a Ht 0 object if you are drawing line of sight, (its down at the bottom of the bullet points on page 28).

 

So hope that helps you answer. Treat it as a ht 0 model for calculating line of sight

That doesn't help when it's something off of a Ht 4 marker like an ice pillar.

[Adran]

3 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

That doesn't help when it's something off of a Ht 4 marker like an ice pillar.

Sorry, I'm not sure what the confusion here is

the rules tell us that if it doesn't have a Ht  then to treat it as Ht 0. For markers with Ht, you follow the line of sight rules as normal.

So for a shockwave off of a Ice pillar

Is the model within the shockwave range?  can it see the ice pillar? If both are yes it will be affected.

[ezramantis]

5 hours ago, Adran said:

Line of sight is two way (unless special rules apply) so if the marker can see the model, the model can see the marker.

The Marker rules tell us that the marker is treated as a Ht 0 object if you are drawing line of sight, (its down at the bottom of the bullet points on page 28).

 

So hope that helps you answer. Treat it as a ht 0 model for calculating line of sight

Thanks Adrian.  I should've read further it seems.  It all makes sense to me now.

[santaclaws01]

Second paragraph in measurement.

Measurement is almost always done horizontally from the closest point on the base of the object in question. If a player is measuring to an object, they measure to the closest point on the base of the target. If there is a vertical element, that distance is added to the distance, minus the lower object’s Size or Height (to a minimum of 0).

[ezramantis]

20 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

Second paragraph in measurement.

Measurement is almost always done horizontally from the closest point on the base of the object in question. If a player is measuring to an object, they measure to the closest point on the base of the target. If there is a vertical element, that distance is added to the distance, minus the lower object’s Size or Height (to a minimum of 0).

Well there ya go.  Missed that.  I'm still making too many assumptions based on the M2E rules. The Marker had LoS but not range then. Thanks santa

[Mycellanious]

44 minutes ago, ezramantis said:

Well there ya go.  Missed that.  I'm still making too many assumptions based on the M2E rules. The Marker had LoS but not range then. Thanks santa

so to clarify in your specific case, because it was a Shockwave 2 Marker attempting to affect a model on a height 2 building, and since Shockwave Markers are height 0, the model and the Marker would need to be 0" apart horizontally for the Shockwave Marker to affect it (2 = x + 2).