Favilludo Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 So i have kind of a stupid question here: i often use guilty and hanged together and port the hanged to the enemy side first turn by using his horrifying whispers attack on the guilty with the on your heels trigger. So my question is this: is it possible for me to declare the guilty as non enemy, after having declared the attack and flipped for it, thus not attaching the upgrade, but resolving the trigger? I don't think so but i am confused by how freely i can use the "may" in the guilty as charged ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchdown Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 Pretty sure you have to decide if they're an enemy or not for the entire action, but I could be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 I think that the guilty are treated as enemies for the whole attack, and you can't change as you go, but for this question that doesn't matter. The timing doesn't work like that. The upgrade will happen if you win the duel because the requirements of being an enemy were passed when you targeted the guilty in the first place. The attaching an upgrade doesn't check friendly/enemy status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatlatinspeakingguy Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 8 hours ago, Favilludo said: So i have kind of a stupid question here: i often use guilty and hanged together and port the hanged to the enemy side first turn by using his horrifying whispers attack on the guilty with the on your heels trigger. So my question is this: is it possible for me to declare the guilty as non enemy, after having declared the attack and flipped for it, thus not attaching the upgrade, but resolving the trigger? I don't think so but i am confused by how freely i can use the "may" in the guilty as charged ability. Horryfing Whispers in "enemy only", so if you want to attack your own Guilty you have to treat it as enemy for the purpose of the Action and thus attach the upgrade. Hanged and Guilty are used together for On Your Heels on Hanged's another attack - Toss the Noose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 And I'm quite sure you can attack your Guilty as an enemy model, relent, and then treat it as enemy again for triggering purposes. It really needs a FAQ asap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Zebo said: And I'm quite sure you can attack your Guilty as an enemy model, relent, and then treat it as enemy again for triggering purposes. But even on that view the answer to the original question is No, you can't avoid getting the upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 Indeed, just pointing a rule/ability interaction that seems not being clear how it should be used. Just like Hannah's copying a charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 It states Actions, Abilities, and Triggers... each one separate. While I'm not here to debate the "are triggers part of actions" discussion (there's a bunch of arguments on other posts about that), I could see using an Enemy only Action and/or Trigger on the Guilty, but then not using the Ability so the Guilty's Demise would not take affect on you; same with a Friendly only Action and/or Trigger, then opting to be an enemy for the Ability, if you wanted the Demise for some crazy reason. I'd say for each individual instance you could choose: each complete Action, each reaction Trigger, each Ability instance, throughout the same activation. So a Bandido could shoot a Guilty, Trigger "Drop It" so the Guilty puts down an enemy Scheme Marker, Trigger the Bandido Ability "Trigger Finger" to shoot The Guilty again, kill it, not get the Demise ability from the Guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 17 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said: So a Bandido could shoot a Guilty, Trigger "Drop It" so the Guilty puts down an enemy Scheme Marker, Trigger the Bandido Ability "Trigger Finger" to shoot The Guilty again, kill it, not get the Demise ability from the Guilty. Only Tormented models can treat friendly Guilty as enemies, so Bandidos can't do that. But Dead Outlaws can trigger Drop It from Guilty, which can be really helpful if you have Wanted Criminal near. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloomy Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 I'd like to see this FAQ'd What I'd like it to be - is that you don't have to attach upgrades. Especially with Jack's Suppressed Memories attaching a curse upgrade, I'm not sure its worth doing if your gonna permanently stagger your guilty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favilludo Posted February 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 Well i played a tournament of henchman hatdcore in my lgs a few weeks ago and took it home with montressor, two guily and a hanged(and 3ss). Zhe crux is, that you can score first turn with smuggle explosives. That way you have a guaranteed vp first round by porting your hanged to your guilty(if necessary stoning for the trigger), can drop the marker and then still have an attack open. I feel like that more than makes up for the slowness of the tormented. Also while i agree the stagger from jack is bad, i didnt have that much trouble with the hanged curse. Seccond turn i would usually activate the guilty last and it would either have been killed by the opponent, sucking up quite some damage for a 4ss model, as well as increasing, or the discard wouldn't matter much and he'd just take 2 damage. Either way, i always felt like the vp was worth it. I would obviously love to see them change the ruling on it, bc its my most played crew, but i feel like a 11.5' place (with the base size of the guilty) would be too good on a bonus action without drawback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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