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Bloodymess20

Molly Build with Forgotten Marshal?

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Hello,

 

I am trying to build a nice rounded crew and felt like Forgotten Marshal would go great, but seems like everyone is all about archie. Is he worth it for his resurrection ability? 

 

Crew Build 50s

Molly, Necrotic, Rogue Necro, Forgotten Marshal, Crooligans x2, and Rabble Riser x2. 

 

Thank you,

Bryan

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Hi! Not a Molly expert but some thoughts. You'd probably still want archie as a Crooligan deliverer and for how good he is.

Forgotten Marshal is an enforcer so he get no SS use and need to use a :crowcard to summon, he can do it but it's not the most reliable summoner; that means that the Whisper is probably a very good idea on him; Molly has some card draw so between the whisper and Molly you should be able to get both summons at least by turn 3.

Sloth is a good pick with the Marshal, the summoned models will be in the table with less wounds and slowed; sloth may heal them the turn they are summoned without any disadvantage as they will be already slowed (and is also good to heal Archie because he cannot get Slow either). It's probably overkill but if it fits in the crew, a Nurse to pick a:crowfrom the discard pile could also work.

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40 minutes ago, Bloodymess20 said:

Is he worth it for his resurrection ability? 

From what I have read players have polarized opinions on Marshal. I am in the camp "not worth it, especially if you're going to invest 2 ss more in The Whisper". but you should definitely try him yourself. And the reason why everyone talks about Archie is because currently he is the best OOK model (model worth hiring outside his keyword, that is) in the faction.

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I love the Marshall, but don't take him into every game.  His summons come in at half health so you really have to watch them in Reckoning or Turf Wars.  And you really can't count on being able to summon every turn, even with the Whisper and Molly's crazy card draw.  His pine box can be a nice bit of cc though, and annoying for people trying to get Claim Jump.  And if you wedge yourself between terrain and summons, it sends whatever you've boxed back to the deployment zone when it pops out.  And if Molly reactivates a summoned punk zombie, it's not slow on the second activation. 

I guess I like him into Idols most of all.  Having a renewable source of mooks to run up and boot the idols is useful.  And sometimes I'll take him as a defensive pick vs in-your-face killers.  And occasionally it's just funny to summon the same punk zombie every turn of the game.  If you've got him, give him a try.  

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I have not played Forgotten Marshal, but I sometimes would if I owned that box.

If you do use him, you want to make full use of his abilities (he is a powerful gunner for ressers) as well as summoning when you can pull it off. He also gives you a really good use for rams - a focused rams attack is going to do an average of 4 damage at 12", with the option to cheat to 6. That is a hell of a hit.

If the opponent doesn't take him seriously and kill him, his ability to summon turn 4 night terrors to secure points turn 5 will win games. The model demands respect.

On paper he is pretty fragile though. I imagine he will die a lot. But if a seven stone model forces your opponent to come hunt him down, that can be a worthwhile strategy in the right situations.

The Whisper is definitely a double edged sword on him. On the one hand, it is great. On the other, at 9 stones you should consider upgrading to 10 stone Toshiro for even better summons (assuming corpse marker access).

Archie is crazy good, but he is also way overhyped. You can do neat things without him, don't feel like your crew will be worthless if you can't get a hold of Archie.

That said, he is one of the best models for Forgotten (and he carries crooligans in his pocket, best crooligan delivery system available).

If you're going crooligan heavy, he is a must. But honestly there is plenty of space to explore night terror lists where you don't rely on Archie as much.

For your list, I think you'll feel the lack of Archie for those two crooligans. You could manage if you get a dead rider to cart around other teleport beacons (Molly or Necrotic Machine), but your list feels tricky. Either get some night terrors to replace the crooligans or snag an Archie.

Just my two cents! If aiming for tournament play, get Archie for sure. But for casual games you'll be fine with the above.

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Just to say it explicitly: Why not both?

 

If you can make use out of both of them in a given match-up, they're not exclusive to each other. Archie will be available again very soon, Marshall will come shortly after. So no issue there.

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The forgotten marshal is pretty decent, being able to bring in additional minions is always nice but I would still make sure to hire some and not to rely on it to fill the gap by not hiring them.

Sloth is a good pick to help heal the summons if you are concerned by their reduced health as they already come in with slow, plus you have the option to discard a card to heal the summon (and also trigger their fading ability).

Obviously there are instances when you wont want the FM and his summons because they can be a liability but in other games they add a utility to the crew and losing the hired schemers isn't as painful. He is an enforcer so having no access to stones can be painful, the whisper mitigates that to an extent but ultimately Molly has the card cycling/draw to ensure you have those summon crows.

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Archie is in no way over hyped. The hype is accurate. 
 

Ive used the forgotten Marshall quite a bit with Molly. The thing about him is that he is a very high variance model. You will never get consistent results out of him, and the competitive game is all about reliability and minimizing variance. I’ve had some games where the summoning and gun just did everything I wanted and he was MVP and pretty much one of the key reasons for winning. And I’ve had other games where I would have had demonstrably better results if I’d just banked the stones and didn’t bother to put him on the table at all.

If you are looking to optimize your crew, in general, I would put him in the never consider bin. That said he is fun, and his cost is about right for the average performance, but bringing him is always a gamble. If you enjoy the variance I would very much recommend him for the wild things he can sometimes achieve.

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13 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I have not played Forgotten Marshal, but I sometimes would if I owned that box.

If you do use him, you want to make full use of his abilities (he is a powerful gunner for ressers) as well as summoning when you can pull it off. He also gives you a really good use for rams - a focused rams attack is going to do an average of 4 damage at 12", with the option to cheat to 6. That is a hell of a hit.

If the opponent doesn't take him seriously and kill him, his ability to summon turn 4 night terrors to secure points turn 5 will win games. The model demands respect.

On paper he is pretty fragile though. I imagine he will die a lot. But if a seven stone model forces your opponent to come hunt him down, that can be a worthwhile strategy in the right situations.

The Whisper is definitely a double edged sword on him. On the one hand, it is great. On the other, at 9 stones you should consider upgrading to 10 stone Toshiro for even better summons (assuming corpse marker access).

Archie is crazy good, but he is also way overhyped. You can do neat things without him, don't feel like your crew will be worthless if you can't get a hold of Archie.

That said, he is one of the best models for Forgotten (and he carries crooligans in his pocket, best crooligan delivery system available).

If you're going crooligan heavy, he is a must. But honestly there is plenty of space to explore night terror lists where you don't rely on Archie as much.

For your list, I think you'll feel the lack of Archie for those two crooligans. You could manage if you get a dead rider to cart around other teleport beacons (Molly or Necrotic Machine), but your list feels tricky. Either get some night terrors to replace the crooligans or snag an Archie.

Just my two cents! If aiming for tournament play, get Archie for sure. But for casual games you'll be fine with the above.

Why is archie good with crooligans? I haven't seen anything about him that meshes with them at all? Am I missing an upgrade or something?

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8 hours ago, Graf said:

Just to say it explicitly: Why not both?

 

If you can make use out of both of them in a given match-up, they're not exclusive to each other. Archie will be available again very soon, Marshall will come shortly after. So no issue there.

I guess it's a point thing. If I use both, the rogue necro will have to go or some of the minions. Do you have a built recommendation using both?

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4 minutes ago, Bloodymess20 said:

Why is archie good with crooligans? I haven't seen anything about him that meshes with them at all? Am I missing an upgrade or something?

Cruligans have by your side, and Archie is a very mobile model with a matching keyword for them to move to. It does allow a cruligan to cover a lot of the board in 1 turn if it has to.

 

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56 minutes ago, Bloodymess20 said:

I guess it's a point thing. If I use both, the rogue necro will have to go or some of the minions. Do you have a built recommendation using both?

Thinking about what you've listed in your first post, I would kick Risers. Way to squishy imho. Though I know Molly only from the other side of the table, so take it with a grain of salt. I think you can take the Marshall if you have use for a gun in your crew. I've seen him in combination with the Dead Rider (instead of Rogue Necro). Molly likes to be escorted by the Rider (who doesn't tbh?), but he can also Ride with me the Marshall to move him into position to hunt flanking schemers. His gun might be nothing special but fine enough for that. The summoning is more like the cherry on top.

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2 hours ago, Graf said:

Thinking about what you've listed in your first post, I would kick Risers. Way to squishy imho. Though I know Molly only from the other side of the table, so take it with a grain of salt. I think you can take the Marshall if you have use for a gun in your crew. I've seen him in combination with the Dead Rider (instead of Rogue Necro). Molly likes to be escorted by the Rider (who doesn't tbh?), but he can also Ride with me the Marshall to move him into position to hunt flanking schemers. His gun might be nothing special but fine enough for that. The summoning is more like the cherry on top.

How does this look? 

 

Molly, necrotic, nan and phillip, crooligan x2, night terror x2, Marshall, and the whisper, and killer instinct 

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5 minutes ago, Bloodymess20 said:

How does this look? 

 

Molly, necrotic, nan and phillip, crooligan x2, night terror x2, Marshall, and the whisper, and killer instinct 

Great list to learn the game, but you'll find some scenarios you really lack killing power. You'll also find that is way too much scheming power for many games. Forgotten is hyper efficient at scheming, so you can make do with far less.

My suggestion is to just field something (anything), and then get a feel for the game. Your list will change from game to game as you build to scenarios anyway.

Or are you trying to plan purchases?

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16 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Great list to learn the game, but you'll find some scenarios you really lack killing power. You'll also find that is way too much scheming power for many games. Forgotten is hyper efficient at scheming, so you can make do with far less.

My suggestion is to just field something (anything), and then get a feel for the game. Your list will change from game to game as you build to scenarios anyway.

Or are you trying to plan purchases?

Eh, more trying to play more. I have some, but lack others. I need the night terrors and archie on this build. Thought I try this since it has least amount to work with (except for my Seamus build).  So thought I worked on this first. I also forgot archie on that list. I have archie too in that build.

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The core of the list would be: Molly + Totem, 2 Crooligans, Archie, Dead Rider, Marshall and 15 SS to play with. You can fill those with whatever necessary in a given match. You could go elite and include Rogue Necro or branch out into more Versatile/OOK with Emisarry/Toshiro. You could also include more minions, which gives you room for upgrades. Just make sure your list can defend itself and you leave a few SS for the game. Molly can pilot both small elite and minion lists, it largely depends on your preference.

I'm not including Phil into this, I can't judge him honestly. But if you like him, that's another possibility.

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Molly, machine, Archie gst, Manos, Marshall +whisper, crooligan x2 plus another 4-5pt model. It's great when he can summon. I like him for a nice reliable 5-6 damage shot from 12"

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On 1/22/2020 at 12:19 PM, Bloodymess20 said:

Molly, necrotic, nan and phillip, crooligan x2, night terror x2, Marshall, and the whisper, and killer instinct 

Would 2x crooligan and 2x night terror be too much spent on scheme runners?  

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9 hours ago, LeperColony said:

Would 2x crooligan and 2x night terror be too much spent on scheme runners?  

Only if you lose. If you win its just the right amount...

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6 hours ago, Adran said:

Only if you lose. If you win its just the right amount...

Really only if you lose because those models didn't do their work and you would have been served with other models.

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