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Hoffman Starter


Bort

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(Please bear with me if all info is known already regarding this... I have only recently started looking at Malifaux again, so didn't keep up with all the news).

I also realise its probably waaaaaay to far down the line to even mention this, but I would like to make a suggestion about the M3E Hoffman Starter + supplemental boxes. And lastly I doubt that my opinion could have enough weight to make a difference... but I'll give my 2c anyways. :)

 

It would be super awesomly cool if Wyrd uses the exact same model spread for the M3E Hoffman Starter they used for M2E.  I know the current trend seems to be Master + Totem + Henchman + 3x of the same keyword Minion.

BUT.

If they stuck to the same distribution as M2E.    (Hoffman + Attendant + 1x Watcher + 1x Guardian + 2x Hunters)  and then make a supplimental box (1x Melissa + 1x Hunter + 2x Watchers) it means that new players can pick up those 2 boxes to have a good Augmeted spread, while existing players can just buy the supplimental box to fill out existing armies without having any model overlap or excess models.

(And ofc there will have to be something like a third box containing a Peacekeeper and 3x Riotbreakers)

 I realise they want to sell stuff, so giving existing players an "easy" way to skip buying a new starter is bad for business. On the other hand it will go a loooooong way in having a happy player base, which sells more stuff in the long run. Putting a shiny new "melissa" in a new starter, and having a ton of duplicate Hoffman's + Attendants sitting on everyone's shelves may be good for business, but bad for the game.

 

Thoughts?

 

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Have you seen the Special order program? It is there to try and reduce the need to buy starters you already have. It wouldn't solve the watcher issue but it does solve the Melissa issue (if it is an issue).

(And the M2 trend was master totem, henchman and 3 minions as well, with about 60% of the boxes meeting that. I've no idea why the Hoffman box was so different, so no idea if that's likely to remain).

 

 

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Apologies for the incoming rambling!

 

Hoffman has new art for M3E - he's getting a new box.  All of the boxes so far have either been individual models or boxes with full playsets of each models (a playset being the maximum allowed to be fielded).  So that makes it  likely that the new box will follow the new distribution model in line with the vast majority of M3E masters (so Master + Totem + Henchman + 3x Minion).  But...

 

Wardens have already been released (in a Guard box with Executioners), so they won't be the Minions in the box.

 

Most of the Arcanist Augmented models have been released (Joss, Mobile Toolkit, Medical Automatons in the same box).

 

This leaves us with: 

  • Hoffman
  • Mechanical Attendant
  • Melissa K.O.R.E.
  • Watchers
  • Hunters
  • Peacekeeper
  • Howard Langston
  • Union Steamfitter
  • Guardian
  • Riotbreaker

 

Howard and the Steamfitters both have the M&SU Keyword as well as Augmented, and are both Arcanist models, so will almost definitely be packaged together.

 

Hoffman and the Attendant will definitely be together.

 

So we're down to Melissa, Guardians, Peacekeeper, Riotbreakers, Hunters, and Watchers.

 

Guardians are Minion (2), Riotbreakers, Hunters, and Watchers are Minion (3).  There's no reason to assume that there won't be 3 Minions in the Hoffman starter so that means Guardians will be in a separate box.  Starter Box Minions also tend to be the cheaper variety, so that probably rules out Hunters (at 8SS each).  Which leaves Riotbreakers and Watchers, along with Melissa and the Peacekeeper.

 

None of the Watcher art on the cards in the App matches the Watcher sculpt with the curling wing from the M2E Hoffman Starter, which likely means new sculpts too.  And the Mechanical Attendant also has new art.  New art usually means new sculpts, so it would make sense for them all to be packaged together too.

 

My guesses for future Augmented releases are:

 

  • Hoffman Core Box: Hoffman, Attendant, Melissa, 3x Watcher (all new art or new models, so the whole box will be brand new sculpts)
  • "Organised Workforce": Howard Langston, 3x Union Steamfitters
  • "Riot Control": 2x Guardian, 3x Riotbreakers
  • "Seek and Destroy": Peacekeeper, 3x Hunters (this could be two separate boxes for each model, but a single box does  fit thematically as all models would have harpoons for dragging enemies)

 

Which, added to the existing Crime and Punishment (2x Warden, 2x Executioner) and Support Staff (Joss, Mobile Toolkit, 2x  Medical Automaton) boxes covers the whole range in a way that's consistent with the existing release model.

 

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27 minutes ago, theamazingmrg said:

My guesses for future Augmented releases are:

 

  • Hoffman Core Box: Hoffman, Attendant, Melissa, 3x Watcher (all new art or new models, so the whole box will be brand new sculpts)
  • "Organised Workforce": Howard Langston, 3x Union Steamfitters
  • "Riot Control": 2x Guardian, 3x Riotbreakers
  • "Seek and Destroy": Peacekeeper, 3x Hunters (this could be two separate boxes for each model, but a single box does  fit thematically as all models would have harpoons for dragging enemies)

 

Which, added to the existing Crime and Punishment (2x Warden, 2x Executioner) and Support Staff (Joss, Mobile Toolkit, 2x  Medical Automaton) boxes covers the whole range in a way that's consistent with the existing release model.

 

This was EXACTLY the conclusion I arrived at before posting.   Well, I guessed Peacekeeper + 3 Riotbreakers and 2x Guardians 3x Hunters.

But the same distribution as you.  Although I figure thematically yours make more sense.

But pretty much this is what I also guessed/assumed it would be.

Then I looked at what I have, and how much overlap this guess will cause.  And in a blind hope I posted the original post.  :)  Because it would solve my problems.   After posting I did realise that if they kept the M3E box the same as M2E box it helps me, but puts everyone else in the future in the same stupid situation... so I guess in the long run the (Master + Totem + Hench + 3x Minion of the same type) is a better format.

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1 hour ago, Adran said:

Have you seen the Special order program? It is there to try and reduce the need to buy starters you already have. It wouldn't solve the watcher issue but it does solve the Melissa issue (if it is an issue).

(And the M2 trend was master totem, henchman and 3 minions as well, with about 60% of the boxes meeting that. I've no idea why the Hoffman box was so different, so no idea if that's likely to remain).

 

 

Sorta aware of it.  That's to say, I heard something about being able to order a single mini from a box to avoid overlap.  All good and well... except I live on the butt-end of the planet and getting anything other than the boxes as-is is more often not worth the effort.   Will keep it in mind though.

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5 minutes ago, Bort said:

This was EXACTLY the conclusion I arrived at before posting.   Well, I guessed Peacekeeper + 3 Riotbreakers and 2x Guardians 3x Hunters.

But the same distribution as you.  Although I figure thematically yours make more sense.

But pretty much this is what I also guessed/assumed it would be.

Then I looked at what I have, and how much overlap this guess will cause.  And in a blind hope I posted the original post.  :)  Because it would solve my problems.   After posting I did realise that if they kept the M3E box the same as M2E box it helps me, but puts everyone else in the future in the same stupid situation... so I guess in the long run the (Master + Totem + Hench + 3x Minion of the same type) is a better format.

To be honest, you could well still end up with your wishes granted.  The main thing that goes against my theorised distribution is that the Core box would only be 20 SS (8 for Melissa, 4 for each Watcher).  Compare that to the other Guild master Cores:

  • Basse: 25ss (10 for Jonathan, 5 for each Frontiersman)
  • Lady J: 25ss (10 for Judge, 5 for each Death Marshal)
  • Lucius: 27ss (9 for Agent 46, 6 for each Lawyer)
  • Nellie: 27ss (9 for Phiona, 6 for each field Reporter)
  • Sonnia: 24ss (9 for Samael, 5 for each Witchling Stalker) 
  • Perdita: 36ss (9 for Francisco, 8 for Santiago, 7 for Nino, 5 for Abuela, 7 for Papa Loco)
  • Dashel: 26ss (8 for Queeg, 6 for each Rifleman)

Hoffmans Core would be very underpointed if this is the case, so swapping a Watcher for a Hunter in both the Core and the "Seek and Destroy" could actually balance the values.

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Possibly related to this, there will apparently be a Guild box called "Protect and Serve" in May, according to this link: https://www.the-outpost.co.uk/product/guild-protect-and-serve/

 

No contents yet, but I'm calling it now, this will be the box with the Peacekeeper in it.  Probably Peacekeeper and Riotbreakers!

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I think the new pictures clue can trick us as all new pictures may not have been published yet. But if we follow this lead to build our speculations we have.

The Watcher have two new pictures (one is the old)
The Hunters have  two new pictures (one is old)
The riotbreaker could have new pictures but it is hard to tell. All could be the old sculpt with different poses or one new and two old with differen poses. One is the old.


As there is no minion with 3 new pictures we could have a box that don't follow the same structure as most of the other starters. Also the Hoffman Keyword is very large compared to other keywords so they may have a different solution for this keyword.

Guardian have the old sculpt and something that looks like the old sculpt with  a different pose.

 I don't think they will add many miniatures with the same sculpt in one box.


One  solution could be:

Start box: Hoffman, Attendant, Melissa, Hunter, Watcher, riotbreaker (all new sculpts).

box 2: Guardian (old sculpt), Hunter (second new sculpt), Watcher (second new sculpt), riotbreaker (old sculpt).

This solution gives you all the miniatures you "needs" if you buy 1. starer and two box 2, and it explain why there is only two new pictures on some of the miniatures as they can justify have the same sculpt if you buy the same box twice as they do with the pathfinder. 


I think the Steamfitter and Howard will come in a M&SU/Augment box

The peacekeeper have an old picture and I think he will be in a singel miniature box as he is versatile.

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I've been trying to figure out what they would put in the remaining boxes as well, but I always run into the problem that the various models Hoffman has are pretty specialized into their given roles, with Hunters (of the remaining options) being the most versatile, from what I've seen. The special order thing should work to fix what problems you'll have with the duplication.

@theamazingmrg The Kaeris box only comes to 19 points (Kaeris, totem, Firestarter 7ss, 3x Fire Gamin 4ss), so having that low of a SS box isn't unprecedented. I'd argue it would make for poor "Starter Box Only" games, but I doubt they're terribly concerned by that. That said, I'd be more inclined to put 3x Hunters in the core and putting the Watchers somewhere else. Better to have a core box over curve than under curve; I was in a core box league recently and a guy was playing Kaeris and felt (rightfully) significantly underpowered.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/17/2020 at 1:44 PM, theamazingmrg said:

Possibly related to this, there will apparently be a Guild box called "Protect and Serve" in May, according to this link: https://www.the-outpost.co.uk/product/guild-protect-and-serve/

 

No contents yet, but I'm calling it now, this will be the box with the Peacekeeper in it.  Probably Peacekeeper and Riotbreakers!

I was half right about Protect and Serve - It is Guardians and Riotbreakers.  Which means my initial prediction of a box with those models was correct, so I wonder if my other guesses are too?

 

Image can be found at www.fantasywelt.de/Malifaux

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On 2/4/2020 at 3:00 PM, theamazingmrg said:

I was half right about Protect and Serve - It is Guardians and Riotbreakers.  Which means my initial prediction of a box with those models was correct, so I wonder if my other guesses are too?

 

Image can be found at www.fantasywelt.de/Malifaux

Hehe, now if only you guessed the name of the box correct. That would have been prescient. 

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