Choosing starting core boxes

[Iceberg256]

I'm looking for suggestions for two 3E core boxes that would be relatively evenly matched to get a taste for the game.  I'm considering Kaeris and Dreamer to start with, but wanted to see if there'd be any balance issues between those two.

I'm also interested in Bayou, particularly Captain Zipp.  I tend to have a bit of an affinity for rats, so Hamelin is of some interest.  The Guild is probably the faction I'm least interested in, although they still have some pretty neat options.

Let me know, those of you with the knowledge and experience, what you suggest.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Finding a balanced pair of core boxes is going to be difficult and constrictive. There's so many different scenarios in Malifaux (4 deployments, 4 strategies, 13 schemes, thousands of combinations) that different matchups will be lopsided one way or the other in lots of cases.

In addition, in Malifaux, skill gaps are supremely important. When you're starting out, it will likely be the better player who wins rather than the player with the more powerful crew (although of course it always sucks to have the better player have the more powerful crew).

My suggestion is to just pick two core boxes you each like and start building a crew. You'll quickly find you want to purchase more models for more options anyway, and you'll find the balance as you go.

One word of warning about Dreamer: as a summoner, he will feel quite incomplete until you get the rest of his minions for him to summon. On the bright side, he is definitely a top-tier master and keyword, so you probably are fine for him to be at a weaker power level when starting out with him.

Kaeris can also be tricky to play as I think her keyword isn't quite as powerful in general and her core box doesn't have her best models. However, she herself is extremely potent in combat and for that reason her core box should slightly overperform.

Captain Zipp's corebox is insanely strong for any non-killing scheme and strategy pool (which is most of them). At least, that's what I think!

I don't know about Hamelin's core box, but he seems like another crew that is not at full power with just his core box.

The great thing is the core boxes are so cheap, you can just buy two and try it out. If you like the game but not the crew, you can swap crews at that point without much loss. 

P.S. Here's an introduction series for new players you may find useful:

EDIT: oh, also a good metric is the total soulstones value of each box (discounting master and totem). Captain Zipp for example has 30 stones I think.

[Iceberg256]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

oh, also a good metric is the total soulstones value of each box (discounting master and totem). Captain Zipp for example has 30 stones I think.

In that case, I'm now considering Marcus, to pair against Captain Zipp, which seems to also be a 30 stone crew.  Seems like they'd both be pretty versatile groups for future expansion.

Also, I really like the jackalope totem

[Nagi21]

22 minutes ago, Iceberg256 said:

In that case, I'm now considering Marcus, to pair against Captain Zipp, which seems to also be a 30 stone crew.  Seems like they'd both be pretty versatile groups for future expansion.

Also, I really like the jackalope totem

Also not a great choice because most of his skills rely on beasts, and he needs several models not the box to be any good.

I would consider Viktoria and Titania.

[Maniacal_cackle]

31 minutes ago, Iceberg256 said:

In that case, I'm now considering Marcus, to pair against Captain Zipp, which seems to also be a 30 stone crew.  Seems like they'd both be pretty versatile groups for future expansion.

Also, I really like the jackalope totem

Sounds like a good setup! Marcus looks to be a very flexible crew as well, so should be a good starter setup. No matter the scenario, both crews should be able to do some interesting stuff!

Zipp will be favoured in maneuverability, but Marcus has some neat tricks that will be a decisive advantage at times (such as his heals and upgrades, and Myranda's transformations).

Although Nagi above just posted as I was typing. His core box comes with 4 beasts, so I assume he is going to be at least viable with just the core box (though of course not optimal). But should be good for some starter games I would have assumed.

EDIT: I should note our Marcus player didn't actually manage to make any of the core box games, so I'm not speaking from experience for this particular combination.

[dalezzz]

Marcus and zip both having 2 factions is also nice as it gives you both more choice going forward

[muraki]

I think you have some good choices there.  I enjoy Zipp / Kaeris a lot this edition and keep wanting to play Marcus but get distracted by other keywords.  Starting with any of those boxes should give you a good taste of what malifaux is as they all have interesting play styles.

if you're on the fence about a few masters one thing I would think about is ease of expanding your keyword, as nothing is more frustrating than loving a master only to find out their models aren't being released for another 6-9 months.  Looking at the future release pages I see the following (apologies if I miss one that has an upcoming date):

For Zipp its:

• M3e Boxes
  • Zipp Core Box
  • Off the Top Rope (December)
  • When Pigs Fly (January)
  • Bayou Smugglers
  • A Hard Days work (for Johan) (December)
• No M3e Release Date found
  • Burt
  • Gracie

For Marcus it's:

• M3e Boxes
  • Marcus Core box
  • Altered Beasts (November)
• No M3e Release Date found
  • Cojo
  • Cereberus
  • Molemen
  • Paul Crocket
  • Slate Ridge Mauler
  • Razorspine Rattler
• Not Listed
  • Neverborn / Arcanist beasts as that requires you to have a faction in mind as you can only bring beasts from your declared faction.

For Kaeris it's:

• M3e Boxes
  • Kaeris Core
  • Burning Bridges
  • Center Stage (for Carlos) (January)
• No M3e Release Date found
  • Iggy

Right now, Marcus is a bit more difficult to expand to his full non +1 tax hiring pool as a lot of his keyword hasn't been released in m3e (a large part of that is that they redid his starter box, and it looks like they're adding new sculpts for some models).  Additionally, since he can hire beasts from his declared faction without a +1 out of keyword hiring tax, you may find yourself buying other master's add-on boxes for 1-2 models.  None of this is bad, just some things to think about.

Also, as you see, none of the masters I looked at have all their models released at this time so whoever you choose you may have to either wait, proxy, or find m2e models.  I've found the m2e boxes for most of these in the last few weeks on ebay, online stores, the wyrd webstore or local places that promote wyrd products.  The models in the m2e boxes are exactly the same as the m3e ones, you just need to get the m3e cards (either by printing them yourself, getting them from wargame vault, or picking up a faction pack).  It's pretty simple, and as a lot of places have been clearing out their stock, which is affordable when you just want 1-2 things.

 

[Ogid]

My advice would be focus in one faction, being it for aestethic or for playstile. Versatiles and out of keyword models will become important when you learn the basic and want to start tailoring your crew for the adversary/pool. So I'd start figuring out which is my favourite master and which faction has more masters that I like; then settle for one faction and go for that one hard.

[LeperColony]

On 1/2/2020 at 7:24 PM, Iceberg256 said:

I'm looking for suggestions for two 3E core boxes that would be relatively evenly matched to get a taste for the game.  I'm considering Kaeris and Dreamer to start with, but wanted to see if there'd be any balance issues between those two.

I'm also interested in Bayou, particularly Captain Zipp.  I tend to have a bit of an affinity for rats, so Hamelin is of some interest.  The Guild is probably the faction I'm least interested in, although they still have some pretty neat options.

Let me know, those of you with the knowledge and experience, what you suggest.

I strongly believe that in Malifaux, rule of cool is the way to go.  If there are masters you know you enjoy, there's nothing wrong with using them to learn, even if they are more complicated.

However, you're also asking which masters are best suited for demos.  Of the crews you listed, I think Kaeris is best suited for demos. 

When I am trying to find crews to use for new player demos, I'm looking for boxes with a few criteria:

1)  Straight forward mechanics:  I don't want a convoluted master or someone who relies on a chain of events.  

2)  Not a summoner:  The exact stone value of crew boxes varies, but most are around ~25 stones.  Summoning on this scale is arguably imbalanced.  Of course, who wins a demo game is irrelevant, as a result.  However, you don't want either player to come away with the sense that the game is unfair.  For a similar reason, I'm not likely to use the Viks as a demo crew, because their two master dynamic is disproportionately powerful at the level of crew boxes.

Some crews do summon incidentally.  That's different to me than what I'd consider a core summoner, like Dreamer.

3)  Plays the game the same way:  By this, I mean the game is likely to be highly interactive.  If I'm setting up a demo for new players, I'm not going to use Nellie and Colette, for instance.  This generally means I want to use the fighting crews over the schemey crews.  

For a similar reason, I don't want to use control masters or crews with a lot of oppressive mechanics.  Jack Daw, as one example, is not what I'd consider a good demo crew.  Terrifying can be very not-fun to play against, and The Guilty are just fantastic on the scale of a crew box game.

4)  No direct counters.  Pretty obvious.

 

Basse, in my opinion, is a fantastic demo box.  Straight forward, has bonus actions on everyone, ignores a lot of terrain so it's simple in terms of movement.

Molly's box is good too.  Solid models, card discard mechanic is a little convoluted at first, but not overwhelmingly so.

Titania is ok, though her minions are 7 stones each so they're a little more expensive than the average box.

Perdita and Parker are both good for shooting crews.  Kaeris is nice for a condition crew.

Those would be my top picks.  There's plenty more that would be good, and really almost any can work, depending on the general gaming experience of the players.