Buffs and nerfs

[darksoul281]

Hi 

i play malifaux in a super competitive community, our community have a lot of top players (for example Felix top 1 in the malifaux nationals or Gonzalo the top 8 ) and i talk a lot about the state of all the factions and i open this post to speak about the state of the neverborn, the crews that need buffs or nerf etc.

Savage: a lot of slow, big, squizy and melee models, this crew its very squizy, the stats o 4/5 in df and wp with his size of 3 and the 50mm of basse size make the models a big bullseye, only hard to kill to prevent to die, other negative points of the 50mm basse its the move, a lot of times the our crew block the move of the other models because they are slow and have a big basse size.

Now i speak about the models, i dont speak about the problems that speak before

Euripides: Why euripides havent got Frozen vigor? and his trigger... is impossible to use, the trigger will be nice if it is after resolving

Thoon: Nice model, with one of the strongers triggers in the game but havent a nice bonus

Primordial Magic: Very nice model

Geryon: usually you havent pillars to use reform from ice, maybe change this bonus for juggernout

Cyclops: why the ice pillars action havent the tome on the stat? the silent one have the tome and its best model than the cyclops, i think this models need the shattering surprise trigger and the tome in the stat to make this model fast to compensate his poor stats

gigant: i like this models to trow rocks and the trigger of shattering shove but usually you havent pillars to use this trigger, but the real problem of this model is the meta of the game, you need to move and make missions and this models its better to shoot other models behind of a very big house

Lyssa: Nice model of this cost

Bultugin: pack mentality.... WHY? the best runner of the keyword, very fast but very squezy

This crew needs a hability to ignore models with a lower size when move or other similar, maybe hard to wound to survive the firsts turns

 

Chimera: I will not write much of this keyword because it is not in a bad place, although it is not about outgoing, this crew its very fast and all the models are a very nice scheme runners with the buffs of marcus, but the best models of the crew are the cerberus for the leap and the hight damage, the problem of this crew its the soulstone miners and magical training, the upgrade and the soulstones of the ss miner and the upgrade make our cats very hard to take down and the + and mask in the attack action.

 

[Ogid]

As someone interested in getting into Savages this is a bit heartbreaking XDD. Are they that bad in your meta?

44 minutes ago, darksoul281 said:

but the best models of the crew are the cerberus for the leap and the hight damage, the problem of this crew its the soulstone miners and magical training, the upgrade and the soulstones of the ss miner and the upgrade make our cats very hard to take down and the + and mask in the attack action.

In NVB there is no miner or SS cache, so that combo is a bit worse for Purple Marcus.

How does NVB Marcus work in your meta? Which are the most common lists there?

[santaclaws01]

I don't know how you have so much trouble getting ice pillars on the table.  Only 3 factions have the glut of models that can remove destructible terrain to make it hard to keep them on the board. 

[darksoul281]

The Savage its in a bad spot now, they are so slow to make missions a the crew havent card draw or ss, I only play Eurípides un a funny games with my friends, never in a tournament 

In arcanist I use 2 Cerberus, the blessed, one soulstone miner (or 2 depend of the Schemes) and the silent one to heal

[darksoul281]

You use the pillars to jump with Eurípides that remove the marker and usually I prefer to attack with his Melee action and use the blast to make damage to other models, I only create pilar to jump, and Euripides is the other faster model of the crew and I Scheme with him

[DumbLuck]

I disagree and the guys in my Meta would also.  They hate when I take the Savage crew.  I do think they can feel just a little squishy but they are sure as shit far from slow.  There are a number of ways to bounce from Pillar to pillar on bonus actions or to send one up the table with a swing from Gigant..  Where you're going to send each model is so unpredictable.  And if your opponent wants to spend the Actions to walk up to a pillar and destroy it, so be it.  That's 2 less actions they've spent scheming or attacking your models. The old ways is an insane ability, especially for def flips as you can cheat a high card against the first attack and then just use it again the 2nd time around.  Usually turn one I have about 6 pillars minimum up to set up my following turns.  You use Euripides pillars to drain your opponents hand and/or filter high cards from their deck, I rarely use him to actually melee unless I see a sweet target near a pillar, then I'll pop him out of it and tee off.  It's a potential 9 inches of movement from a bonus action and then you can still charge and take 3 attacks off of it.  Him dropping 2 pillars per action with a 2 inch pulse just outside of 1 inch of a bunch of models is awesome and the Old Ways on the 2nd use to guarantee the trigger again you can usually hit at least 3 models per cast and you're clogging up their movement lanes.  The pillars are also a tactical action, so they ignore most def tech, with the exception of armor/shielded.  Tons of Min 3 damage all over the keyword and the Cyclops can easily drop your scheme markers from 6 inches off of pillars.  Hell they can drop one with an interact next to a pillar, drop another off the pillars right next to it with a bonus action and still charge with a 2" reach.  I think they're a pretty solid crew who can be squishy against heavy hitters, but then you just send Thoon through a pillar to take them off the table for at least a turn and eat another models actions to try and save it.  Sorry if this was a bit random and incoherent, I get excited about my boys!!  The Bultungan are seriously lacking though.  They've never done much for me on the table.

 

[Regelridderen]

14 hours ago, darksoul281 said:

the crews that need buffs or nerf etc.

You’re of course free to discuss whatever... But what’s the point of this?

This isn’t a rules development forum, the beta testing is long past and the rules have all been printed and models have been finalized - now we’re just waiting for Stock to actually go on shelves.

My point is; rather than ‘whinge’ and demand erratas and FAQs to ‘fix’ your models, why not just play the game and focus on discussing how to utilize the tools, you have available? 

-

The game isn’t broken. Sure a few masters might be a little easier than others, but every one of them is capable of giving you a good game.

[santaclaws01]

14 hours ago, darksoul281 said:

You use the pillars to jump with Eurípides that remove the marker and usually I prefer to attack with his Melee action and use the blast to make damage to other models, I only create pilar to jump, and Euripides is the other faster model of the crew and I Scheme with him

Well, yeah, if you're never making pillars you're never going to have any to use. It seems like you have a very specific way of playing Savage that doesn't really make use of a lot their available tech. 

[Ogid]

@Regelridderen While it's true beta is over and this isn't the perfect scenario (nor we are asked) to balance the game. There is no better place to do it and these are still the official forums so the developers may still see them. Nail a game like this game just out of a beta is impossible so I do expect changes over time; it's not a bad thing that some suggestions are made. This doesn't mean crying rivers over "OP" things is good tho.

But yeah, in general it's better focusing in what we can control like how to counter X current top dog or how to make that underwhelming Y work.

I agree with @santaclaws01 here, this seems to be more a playstile issue than a crew issue; not saying they are good tho, I'm not sure about the true potential of the crew. Savages seems to need badly the Ice Pilar support. H2K is one of their main defensive abilities and to make good use of that they need the chip healing of Frozen Vigor (a H2K model with 2 life require 2 damage sources to be killed), Old Ways is a very powerful ability but again the shielded/healing from Frozen Vigor is necessary to not bleed your own models out using it. And good pilar coverage also opens mobility tricks, healing for Gerions, extra healing/damage/conditions/scoring for cyclops, Cover...

There was a thread covering some tricks of the keyword here:

18 hours ago, darksoul281 said:

In arcanist I use 2 Cerberus, the blessed, one soulstone miner (or 2 depend of the Schemes) and the silent one to heal

ull mobility with the long range support of the silent, cool and fun crew

But what about NVB Marcus; ARC Marcus is very good thanks to SSC and miner, but there is not a lot of feedback about the NVB side of that crew (that's the one I'm more interested as a NVB player). Is NVB Marcus used in your meta or do you only see ARC Marcus there?

[Regelridderen]

38 minutes ago, Ogid said:

@Regelridderen While it's true beta is over and this isn't the perfect scenario (nor we are asked) to balance the game. There is no better place to do it and these are still the official forums so the developers may still see them. Nail a game like this game just out of a beta is impossible so I do expect changes over time; it's not a bad thing that some suggestions are made. This doesn't mean crying rivers over "OP" things is good tho.

True, but there are other ways to do this, rather than cries for buffs and endlessly theorizing. Merely acknowledging the state of things, then moving on - developers have their eyes on the game, regardless of this. 
 

But hey, it’s just me being a grumpy ol’ basterd and bored with the subject. So I’ll just move along

[darksoul281]

On 12/31/2019 at 12:50 PM, Ogid said:

 

ull mobility with the long range support of the silent, cool and fun crew

But what about NVB Marcus; ARC Marcus is very good thanks to SSC and miner, but there is not a lot of feedback about the NVB side of that crew (that's the one I'm more interested as a NVB player). Is NVB Marcus used in your meta or do you only see ARC Marcus there?

In My meta the people dont play NVB because the arc Marcus is better and the rougarous, and the ARC beasts are better than the NVB beasts

[esqulax]

I have recently been playing a bit of Euripedes and Marcus and had some thoughts. 

The Savage keyword seems a lot stronger than I had originally thought. I will have to test them a bit more, but currently I am way more optimistic than I was when I only read their cards. 

I do wish that Euripedes himself had Frozen Vigor. As it is he is pretty squishy and I don't really get why he is one of the only models in the keyword without that ability.

An annoyance that I noticed is that the old ways is only usable if you have no fate modifiers, but cyclops get + flip on their attack when they are low health and the damage track of Gigants mean that you really want to focus with them. I don't really get why it doesn't say "no negative fate modifiers" instead to avoid this counter synergy. 

Primordial Magic is crazy good. I would not be surprised if this is one of the best totems in the game (not counting things like Chompy) 


Marcus is a very strange master to play. His crew is so squishy that you have to always avoid a straight up fight. In scheme pools where you want to spread out his high mobility crew can be very solid, but never pick him if you expect you will have to brawl it out with your opponent. 

A thing I have noticed after playing him is that he is extremely card intensive, which can be hard to play around. So many abilities in the crew requires you to discard cards and a lot have TNs requiring 6-7s. You run out of cards in the blink of an eye. 

[Ogid]

On 1/14/2020 at 10:58 AM, esqulax said:

Marcus is a very strange master to play. His crew is so squishy that you have to always avoid a straight up fight. In scheme pools where you want to spread out his high mobility crew can be very solid, but never pick him if you expect you will have to brawl it out with your opponent. 

A thing I have noticed after playing him is that he is extremely card intensive, which can be hard to play around. So many abilities in the crew requires you to discard cards and a lot have TNs requiring 6-7s. You run out of cards in the blink of an eye.

I'm curious about this bit. Which models (and which mutations attached) are you using? Versus who? Which are the abilities draining your cards.

[esqulax]

On 1/15/2020 at 8:28 AM, Ogid said:

I'm curious about this bit. Which models (and which mutations attached) are you using? Versus who? Which are the abilities draining your cards.

I run him with Vogel, 2x Ceberus, Scorpius and Paul Crocket among other things. The only upgrades that are certain are disguised and stealth for the Cerberus and armor for the Scorpius.  

This means that you have 3 instances of leap in your crew that all needs 7s  and Vogel needs a card to switch and cards for Intimidating Authority if you want to use it. You will probably also want to save a card for Demise Eternal for the Jackalope. 

Marcus himself will typically try to throw out a lot of upgrades early games which needs 5s to 7s and since you will try to hit the recast trigger with either stones or cards you will need a lot of them. 

If Paul Crockett shoots something and you want to activate Scent of Blood you also need to discard a card. 

Slate Ridge Mauler also discards cards for Ambush or Juggernaut

It may not seem that bad on paper, but in practice I have always felt card starved with this crew.