Welcome to the Show! A M3E Colette Tactica

[Ogid]

4 hours ago, Vangerdahast said:

@Ogid: Totally agree about Joss. Certainly a good take versus specific models. But that would mean dropping the Rider (or the Duet) and lose ability to score schemes based on Scheme Markers easily. A choice to keep in mind but not an auto-take.

Agree, either that or totally changing the focus of the list to a lower mobility and high kill potential crew. 

That kind of crew may be effective if the other player expects the typical fast crew and is not ready for have 1 model sniped and a buffed ludicrous beater throw into his crew (versus the right master of course, there is nothing fool proof in this game). It's not the standard style of Colette, but worth exploring. Presto Chango seems a sleeper for this kind of playstyle to me.

It would be some like this concept posted before but adjusting it to be with Joss.

The above list has the advantage that with Myranda and the duet that list still have good scheme potential (giving up the alpha strike and turning Myranda into the blessed of december). If you ever try something like that let me know

[MuMantai]

I had some fun games with Colette, using this core:

- Colette (Soulstone Cache)
- Mechanical Dove (times 3)
- Mechanical Rider (Soulstone Cache)
- Coryphee Duet

Season to taste (Swarms, Emissary, Mobile Toolkit, Captain, Joss... you have options)
The Soulstone Cache on Colette is not fixed there, if you find a better target, go for it. It just has to be there. The Cache on the Rider is necessary.

So, what does this list do?

Simple, you abuse two things:
At the start of the game, Colette sacrifices doves to summon more doves, getting a card and two stones per dead dove in the process. She buries herself and gets another card and another two stones. You get a good hand for turn one/turn two and a lot of stones to keep your models alive, as well as the freedom to put Colette whereever you want turn two, for the low cost of... nothing really. We will get to how that works.
Second, starting turn two, the rider reactivates the duet, giving it six to eight actions to work with a turn. So you have a very sturdy, very mobile beater/scheme runner that can annoy the enemy crew, while at the same time taking pressure off the rider, who can do her thing unharassed.

How does this work?

Deployment: You need to group up a bit. Both Cache models need to be in range of all doves, Colette should also be there. She doesn't necessarily need to be there, but she will be buried after her activation anyway, so I usually put her with her doves somwhere at the front, with the Cache models nearby. Put the duet somewhere where it project threat and the rest accordingly.

Turn 1: You want to have initiative. Cheat it if necessary. You will probably play one activation down, so this is important. I am rarely really threatened early turn one, so if that happens... deal with it? The tools should be there...
- Should you have pass tokens for some reason, use them.
- First dove does nothing
- Second dove does nothing
- Third dove does nothing
- If you have more chump activations, use them here. Every model that activates before Colette is one more activation your opponent has to take and that can not react to what happens after Colette.
- Colette activates
-- and uses Presto-Chango on a dove. Check if you have a 7 of masks or tomes in hand. If you have not, you can buy one of those with a soulstone. Sacrifice another dove to get two stones and a card for the second suit, or if you do not want to summon, for a mask. Either way, place the doves exactly where they were before, movement is not the point. If you did not declare the trigger, swap one with a scheme marker.
-- Do this up to two more times, make sure to always sacrifice another dove. In the end, you should have up to three new doves, drawn up to three cards, and (depending how lucky you were with cards) up to six new soulstones.  If you have an original dove left, focus with your last AP and use it for the next step.
-- As your last trick, use Sword Trick on a dove, either with a low mask, or saccing another dove. Relent, kill the dove for all in all two to four more stones and one to two cards, and bury.
- At this point, your opponent has some pass token, and you have new doves to counteract them. Do that. If you killed more than the original three doves, your opponent has more pass token than you have doves. That is unfortunate, but cannot be helped.
- You can activate the rider here, she does nothing of consequence turn one other than advancing a bit, if possible. She has to be kept safe, as she cannot use her fate tokens. You can use stones to keep her alive, but if possible, she should not be attacked in the first place.
- Duet and other beaters can activate now. The duet wants to be on a flank, so it can attack scheme runners or support without directly engaging the enemy fighting core. If you can do so safely, you can attempt to split/reform, but it is not necessary. At least one beater should be near the enemy core crew for Colette to be able to emerge somewhere impactful. This can also be a dove, but they are a bit fragile. They are expendable now, though, so they will serve, if necessary.

Turn 2: You want at least one 6+ tomes this turn, and this crew has very little card draw, so stone for it, if necessary.
- Your first activation will probably be Colette, if nothing else need immediate fixing. The rider wants to go as late as possible.
- Colette wants to unbury in 3" to as many models as possible. Once there, you want to either Distracting Illusion to give out Stunned to people, or False Reality to disrupt them. If at all necessary, you can Presto-Chango to move models, but this activation aims at maximum disruption. Bonus action is Sword Trick to bury something scary. At the end of her activation, she should also engage as much as possible. Try to keep her there as long as possible, but if necessary, bury her to keep her safe.
- The rest of the turn is not as planned out, the duet wants to activate early to further disrupt/kill models, aiming at models that can help those bound by Colette, or whatever wants to score points. Split if you can, but don't plan on it.
- The rider wants to activate late to threaten a second duet activation. It doesn't matter if you really do it, sometimes other models are better suited for that, but the second duet go is usually what is the scariest, so your opponent has to account for that. You should have three fate token, stone for the fourth, you need the card for the fifth tome. The rider is your main scheme runner, keep her safe and she will do any marker scheme there is.

Turn 3 you need another tome for the reactivate trigger, else it is just rinse, repeat. Colette can scheme as well, as can the duet if it needs to.

Colettes activation turn one needs a bit of moderation. You have to look at what you are working with. If you want to go crazy, you can kill up to five doves here (three with Presto-Change, each saccing one and (maybe) summoning one, and Sword Trick saccing one and killing one), but at that point one has to ask if it is worth it. You play two activations down at that point. You definitely should kill the three original doves, as they are essentially free in terms of activation.
Presto-Chango without summoning a new dove is essentially free in terms of stones, as the suit comes from the sacrificed dove. If you have the card in hand, you can summon a dove, but if not, I don't think the stone it worth it. Also, keep in mind that killing newly summoned doves sets you back one activation. I think three doves if you are first player and four if not should be the sweet spot, but that depends heavily on what your hand looks like, what the enemy crew is made of and how many stones you anticipate you will need.

What can you do against it?

- Anti bury tech works, because Colette is a lot less mobile, and cannot pulse out Distracted. This is not her main trick, but it is part of the book, so it is nice to have.
- Anti trigger tech is also nice, as Colette relies on her defense trigger to keep her alive, so she cannot be as agressive if that is on the board. Stunned on the rider is great, as it shuts down the whole reactivate thing.
- Armor ignore is great against the duet (and the faction as a whole), irreducable damage works against the main three threats in this (duet, rider, Colette). Beware of this one. Also, Shen Long (as usual) just kills this list, as he ignores all defenses anything will ever have.
- Early aggression should be fine, as the only thing that could be killed are the doves, and at that point your opponent is doing your job for you. To really shut it down, you need to focus either the rider or the duet before turn three. Spreading out helps mitigate Colettes impact.

And now, the most disgusting part of this:

Lets do some math:
16 (Colette) + 2 (Dove) + 2 (Dove) + 2 (Dove) + 11 (Rider) + 13 (Duet) + 2 (Soulstone Cache) + 2 (Soulstone Cache) = 50
Yes, you can do this with any master there is (in Arcanists). This reduces the risk of getting countered significantly.

The good:
Ramos actually gets the whole package for 46 stones, as he doesn't have to pay tax on doves and duet. He also synergizes great with this, as he can repair duet and rider, gets another card for dead doves, can summon, can blow doves and coryphees up, and is an all out great guy. Also, fast on the duet is disgusting.
Sandeep loses out on card draw, but can still use most of his tricks in this setup. You get mobility on top of mobility, and outside of the most aggressive setups you get a very good late game. Also, Banasuva is a beater again and loves himself a Cache. You need to summon a wind gamin to get going, but then, you are good.

The bad:
Ironsides is a good sturdy beater that can go in with Colette. Not much else to say, some of her tricks work, but the adreanline is slow, the aura doesn't do anything, and anything that disables triggers also works against Colette. Have to test some more, but I suspect pure Ironsides may be stronger. But it is a nice scheming package for Toni, something she doesn't have otherwise.
Mei Feng, again, is a good beater. The rider can put scrap markers down, but there is almost no support for her otherwise, so I am not sure if it is worth it. But I am not really experienced with Mei Feng, so maybe it could be good?
Hoffman has similar support for the crew to Ramos in that he can make the duet fast, repair it, and can also make it sturdier by making the armor stick. Other than that, nothing in the crew cares about power token, and he doesn't seem to be doing much on his own, but as long as he can support the duet, it may be worth it.
Kaeris has no synergies in this crew whatsoever. Conversly, this may not be a bad thing, as I find the synergies not to be very strong in the first place. As many others, Kaeris would be just a beater here, but she is not bad at that, Colette helps keeping her alive (as do many stones), and pyre markers work as they should. Also, she is a decent scheme runner on her own. I haven't played it yet, but just thinking about it, it could work. She wants a mostly independant crew anyway.

The ugly:
Marcus would be completely on his own. Nothing wants his upgrades, he can move nothing, he would be just a beater. I don't think this would be remotely as strong as a standard Marcus crew.
Rasputina would also have no support or synergy to her name. While that would not be so bad (she has still the ability to place markers and channel through them, as well as make things slow), I don't think Raspi would work particularly well in this setup, because Colette wants models to be aggressive with her, and Raspi does not do that. I think this could be one of the stronger Raspi crews, but definitely one of the weaker masters for this. Poor Raspi

[CD1248]

@MuMantai

So, unless I'm misunderstanding here, you seem to be spending a Soulstone and doves, or multiple doves, on the same duel, which is not possible. When enhancing a duel you can only spend a SINGLE soulstone, and the Dove's rule just allows them to act as a proxy stone and doesn't override this limitation.

The idea of generating free stones with multiple SS caches is interesting, but I wonder if spending half your first turn and Colette's whole first activation playing dove solitaire leaves it too vulnerable to a disruptive alpha. 

[MuMantai]

I was under the impression that you could both add a suit and get a modifier. That is not the case, thanks for that correction, I will incorporate that

As I said, I usually don't have my opponent jump im my face agressively at the start of the first turn. If that happens, it most likely is at the end of the turn, and even if not, the list has a duet and some other models to deal with that. Or Colette herself, if necessary. In that case, your gameplan is out of the window and you have to improvise anyway. But usually, Colette doesn't really have anything better to do turn one other than bury and prepare her reemering turn two.

[Ogid]

I like this idea but I think you can optimice it a bit more.

SS Cache would be better in any other hire than in Colette, so those hired models benefice from using SS and also that allow doves to kill themselves for extra SS after she buries. If doves are killed after that, you may get up to 12, 6 for the presto changos and 6 for the 3 doves killed.

Doing nothing with the 3 doves is a bit of a waste when you may use presto-chango to move forward 2 or 3 models:

• Move ahead 2 doves (and maybe also an small model, like a Mannequin passively dragged by a dove); leave 1 dove in range of both auras and all models about to be presto changed also in range of the auras.
• Presto chango 2-3 models ahead, this will put doves again in range of both auras.

 

Also, consider the following:

Extra dove milking (require not doing the above):

• Add 1 showgirl, showgirl seduced Colette flipping/cheating a low tomes to get Expensive Gift, Colette discard a SS, she gains 2 SS for the auras and 1 for the trigger (if you are lucky and get both triggers, that's 2 extra SS)
• Use 1 of the summoned doves to Assist Colette and remove Distracted from her.

You may push this concept adding to your list 1 model of your choice with SS cache and 2 showgirls:

• First turn, Rider uses Innovation trigger to give everyone  (this will make impossible to reactivate in turn 2; but it'll give you 3 extra SS and some Focused; up to you)
• Activate 2 doves.
• Showgirl nº1 uses seduction in colette twice (getting the suit thanks to the rider); Colette decide to discard SS and kill doves and killing 2 doves (3SS per dove Killed)
• Activate 1 Dove, Assist Colette.
• Showgirl nº2 uses seduction in colette once as above (again 3SS per Dove) and Assist Colette.
• Now colette's Presto Chango has 1 suit. Summon 3 doves (cheating if possible, if not SS) and bury herself with sword trick ( if not SS)
• Activate Doves and stack them, last dove use Overheat and kill herself plus the other 2 for 6SS.
• Total Generated: 15 SS
• Total Expended: 1-5 SS
• Net: 14-10 SS

But probably 1 Showgirl + SS miner would be a better call for this than 2 Showgirls tho; it still let you do the trick has 1 dove to use presto-chango and move forward 1 model and it doesn't compromise the opening so much if you can't get 2 in hand for the rider. Another advantage of using innovation to give  is Coryphee may get/give a LOT of Focused. Pushing this strat to the max (disclaimer: It's probably not worth it), you may generate 17SS (net 16-12) with Rider + 3 Showgirls; but that would require dropping the Duet.

[MuMantai]

On 2/15/2020 at 1:36 AM, Ogid said:

SS Cache would be better in any other hire than in Colette, so those hired models benefice from using SS and also that allow doves to kill themselves for extra SS after she buries. If doves are killed after that, you may get up to 12, 6 for the presto changos and 6 for the 3 doves killed.

As I said, the Chache is not glued to Colette. If you find a better model, put it somewhere else, by all means. That said, it is not a bad upgrade on Colette, as she usually is where the action takes place and may siphon a stone or two there. As for killing more doves, true, that is something you can do. I have to think about that. It would fix the activation issue.

Quote

Doing nothing with the 3 doves is a bit of a waste when you may use presto-chango to move forward 2 or 3 models:

• Move ahead 2 doves (and maybe also an small model, like a Mannequin passively dragged by a dove); leave 1 dove in range of both auras and all models about to be presto changed also in range of the auras.
• Presto chango 2-3 models ahead, this will put doves again in range of both auras.

I know you can do that, but that would mean bringing models closer to the enemy before you want to necessarily have them there. The list is (in my opinion) fast enough to not having to do that. But it is an option in case there is little threat there. Just be sure to target the right model, you probably want the dove with Colette, not 8" away from her.

Quote

Also, consider the following:

Extra dove milking (require not doing the above):

• Add 1 showgirl, showgirl seduced Colette flipping/cheating a low tomes to get Expensive Gift, Colette discard a SS, she gains 2 SS for the auras and 1 for the trigger (if you are lucky and get both triggers, that's 2 extra SS)
• Use 1 of the summoned doves to Assist Colette and remove Distracted from her.

You may push this concept adding to your list 1 model of your choice with SS cache and 2 showgirls:

• First turn, Rider uses Innovation trigger to give everyone  (this will make impossible to reactivate in turn 2; but it'll give you 3 extra SS and some Focused; up to you)
• Activate 2 doves.
• Showgirl nº1 uses seduction in colette twice (getting the suit thanks to the rider); Colette decide to discard SS and kill doves and killing 2 doves (3SS per dove Killed)
• Activate 1 Dove, Assist Colette.
• Showgirl nº2 uses seduction in colette once as above (again 3SS per Dove) and Assist Colette.
• Now colette's Presto Chango has 1 suit. Summon 3 doves (cheating if possible, if not SS) and bury herself with sword trick ( if not SS)
• Activate Doves and stack them, last dove use Overheat and kill herself plus the other 2 for 6SS.
• Total Generated: 15 SS
• Total Expended: 1-5 SS
• Net: 14-10 SS

But probably 1 Showgirl + SS miner would be a better call for this than 2 Showgirls tho; it still let you do the trick has 1 dove to use presto-chango and move forward 1 model and it doesn't compromise the opening so much if you can't get 2 in hand for the rider. Another advantage of using innovation to give  is Coryphee may get/give a LOT of Focused. Pushing this strat to the max (disclaimer: It's probably not worth it), you may generate 17SS (net 16-12) with Rider + 3 Showgirls; but that would require dropping the Duet.

And now, to the silly stuff: Yes, you can expand on the gimmick. But that is not the point of the list. I use the killing dove stuff, because it is cheap (One additional cache and some doves, which may or may not be free) and effectiv. This is neither cheap nor particularily more effective, which would defeat that purpose.

Showgirls, imho, are bad models. They do nothing for this list. Having more soulstones, at some point, has diminishing returns, so I don't think this is worth it.

[Ogid]

12 hours ago, MuMantai said:

I know you can do that, but that would mean bringing models closer to the enemy before you want to necessarily have them there. The list is (in my opinion) fast enough to not having to do that. But it is an option in case there is little threat there. Just be sure to target the right model, you probably want the dove with Colette, not 8" away from her.

Unless they can attack the doves right away, making the Master AP count moving some models ahead is the best opening by far imo; and it's a big head start for those; for example a 30mm model gets a bit more than 11'' for free without moving Colette, that's 1 full activation worth of movement for some models. Also take in count you'll bring back those doves in range of the auras with Presto chango.

12 hours ago, MuMantai said:

And now, to the silly stuff: Yes, you can expand on the gimmick. But that is not the point of the list. I use the killing dove stuff, because it is cheap (One additional cache and some doves, which may or may not be free) and effectiv. This is neither cheap nor particularily more effective, which would defeat that purpose.

Showgirls, imho, are bad models. They do nothing for this list. Having more soulstones, at some point, has diminishing returns, so I don't think this is worth it.

Those tricks may be useful because not always the hand is going to go your way; remember you can only use 1SS or Dove per flip, you may find yourself with an initial hand that wouldn't let you perform presto chango generating doves because you lack high masks or tomes in hand. Using the Innovation trigger can let you still milk those doves for SS giving up the turn 2 reactivation.

Doing some numbers, with a 7 cards hand (taking in count Magical Training) you will get at least 1 card needed to pull a presto chango AND summon a Dove 91% of the time, at least 2 cards 64% of the time and at least the the 3 cards around 30% of the time (so around 9% of the time, approximately 1 out of 10 games, you get 0 cards in hand); a bit higher taking in count the card draw out of the killed doves. This means that trick only let you generate with Colette 2SS (4-6 SS being lucky) before you have to start to killing doves to get SS. Using the rider you'll get 6SS out of Colette most of the time (around 75%, 83% if you are willing to stone cards), 8SS including and using 1 Showgirls APs.

Being able to adapt (or do "silly stuff") in a match can make a difference in that particular game if you get a bad initial hand and your models count on Colette generating those 10-12 SS.

The showgirl part is optional, but if 1 or 2 are useful in a match; they basically cost 3SS each if you do this with her/their turn 1 activation. I understand you don't like the Showgirl, but I can't see how getting a few extra SS is a bad thing...

[Ogid]

On 12/24/2019 at 9:16 AM, Ogid said:

Colette, dove(x3), Duet, Myranda (SSC), Amina, SS miner (MT), Mobile Toolkit. 4SS.

18 hours ago, AskM3L8r said:

@Ogid

I ran this crew on Parker loss 5- 6 Idols with Corner Deployment 

My biggest struggle was having more insignificant models than significant ones. 

 The other pain was not sharing a key word. 

I got 3 on Idols 1 for deliver the  message and  1 for  take prisoner 

She got 3 idols 2 power ritual and  1 take prisoner.  

She called prisoner on SS Miner and I called it on her Bayou Smuggler and they engaged each other.  We were denied the second point on each other (short version) 

Think harness the ley line,  dig their graves were also in the pool ( I didn't recall those)

This was a very handicapped crew.  Amina was killed early and Mad Dog went after the Duet.

Wasn't as painful as the last run I used Collette against Parker. In more experienced hands with a different Strategy I think this could work. Following a few other threads and chats,  I might have an idea on how to do better  with Collette and the birds.  Thank you @Kaiser Senpai. Wish I had caught your Toni Collette team up before I played with this crew.

I rather respond in the Colette thread, I kind of feel bad to highjack the tactica of a different master... 

 

First of all ty for the report! It's good to know this more or less worked in that scenario and what is lacking. 

As you said the pool isn't that good for this list. It's a very specialiced list around the gimmick of position while buffing your beaters in turn 1, strike very hard in turn 2 and move from there. There is no much AP avaliable in that list for scheming or contest idols and if they spread too much is hard to leverage well your 2 hammers, that's not going to work well in all pools. Also amina's aura is wasted versus Parker and Mad Dog's built in trigger is a pain versus the duet.

But anyway 5-6 is a good result in that pool versus parker; it seems you have a new trick up your's sleve 😉

Let us know about any further test of this list or any variation of it!

[Jordon]

How are people using Showgirls? I really struggle to find their use in a Colette list since mobility is not something Performers typically have issues with. They have a good lure, sure. However I find myself hesitant to use it though because once engaged, Showgirls fall completely apart.

They're not particularly fast, they don't hit hard (without a ton of setup anyway) and they're paper thin. I can see maybe 1-2 schemes where they might be interesting but generally as the "core" of a Performer list, they seem pretty weak. They don't even really have any keyword synergy that gives them any sort of edge over Versatile models. To me it seems like a Saboteur is far more useful and disruptive than a Performer.

I didn't think they were particularly great in M2E but at least they were a whole lot more interesting then they are now since they could blow up scheme markers and hand out reactivate. 

[Ogid]

I don't like them that much tbh, but they have some uses. Lures may target friendly models, so aside for luring enemy models, one may be presto changed and Lure a friendly model forward or reposition a friendly model later in the turn.

The main synergy with the crew is being Performers so they trigger Mannequin's Mechanical Assistan (coryphees may jump on them...) and her Mv 5 pairs well with it (the Duet for example has to slow down a bit). They also deliver Distracted (even while scheming) and remove Focused, that make Colette and non-activated manipulative models near-untouchable (unless the attacking model has built in ) and Coryphees safer. Seduction may really ruin the day of a low-average WP beater from 15'' away or help control crews that use Focused a lot; and in a very niche scenario, the above trick with the double SS cache and the rider.

Showgirls also pair quite well with Mannequins, Distracted and Slow combines well; Mannequins may take some hits which make their paper made nature less noticeable and heal them; still not the most awesome duo tho.

They aren't core models for her imo, just situational supports to get in the right game (and probably just 1, not more).

[Jordon]

Yeah I imagine they're meant to be paired with Mannequins but even then, they're not really achieving what I would expect for 9ss. The mobility combination is nice but were talking about a performer list where mobility is simply not an issue. 

[Vangerdahast]

Concerning Showgirls, I generally take one in each list (with the obvious exception of Reckoning games). The Showgirl is rarely the MVP of the game but has utility.

In Turf War, she spares actions of your more important models to flip to friendly a Strategy Marker in Turn 1. She also spares actions for Power Ritual by dropping a schem marker in your deployment zone.

In Take Prisoner, Colette can Presto Chango the Prisoner in your Deployment Zone near the Showgirl who will engage it the rest of the game. Better if the Prisoner is a Minion (an Effigy (without specific Upgrade) or a non-Insignificant Totem for example). In that case, each turn, the Showgirl drops a Scheme Marker giving Distracted +1 to the Prisoner. When it activates, it can attack but with Distracted or he can try to disengage. If he escapes, the Showgirl can follow him or Colette can Presto Chango him back near the Showgirl. The Showgirl can also lure the Prisoner back in order to reengage him.

The Showgirl can be used for Hold Up their Forces (presumably only one time).

Versus a Melee Master that has attacked one of your important models, the Showgirl can activate later, walk and Interact to Deliver a Message and giving Distracted at the same time.

In my games, she is not a high priority target for my opponent, so she can live near the end of the game. When she activates, she interacts to give Distracted +1, she Concentrates (at times flipping two cards when attacked may oblige your opponent to cheat a moderate or high card)  or she uses Seduction to cancel Focused and giving Distracted. Seduction is also a mean to oblige your opponent to cheat moderate cards to avoid Distracted, a bit of hand depletion, a thing that is not really a part of this Keyword.

She rarely crosses the centerline but as said above she shouldn't be exposed frontline but kept near your deployment zone.

By no means a key piece, but has a role in the Crew (even if in some games she won't do much).

I rarely regret to have hired one, but I will never take two of them.

 

[LeperColony]

I don't think the showgirl is as bad as some people say, but I agree I rarely feel like she's been critical to the outcome.

Rotten Belles seem a lot better for the same cost, though obviously it's hard to compare models like that out of context.

[Jinn]

4 hours ago, LeperColony said:

Rotten Belles seem a lot better for the same cost, though obviously it's hard to compare models like that out of context.

I'm pretty sure a lot of the Ressers think Belles are garbage, though they do appear significantly better than Showgirls.

[LeperColony]

13 hours ago, Jinn said:

I'm pretty sure a lot of the Ressers think Belles are garbage, though they do appear significantly better than Showgirls.

While I haven't had a chance to get them on the table, the Belles seem fine to me for their cost.  Not sure what else you can expect out of 5 stones.

[Paddywhack]

35 minutes ago, LeperColony said:

While I haven't had a chance to get them on the table, the Belles seem fine to me for their cost.  Not sure what else you can expect out of 5 stones.

I was pleasantly surprised by their damage output. Since all count as on their damage flip, its a lot easier to get a severe than you might think. And it attacks WP to get around some defensive triggers. If you can find some way to add Distracted, it can hurt even worse. They aren't the auto-takes they were in 2E, but I still like them. I do wish the trigger was built in on their Lure....

Showgirls have Don't Mind Me, which is a big difference. And they have a second ranged attack. 

[DuBlanck]

When I was playing her, I brought a Showgirl in Colette crews because I feel bad if I don't.

For the price you get a Significant model that can drop or flip markers and... I guess Lure is fine too?

In nearly every game I played with one, they could have been any other model and performed (ahah) equally well. Some part of that may have been over-cautious play, because one Focused hit can take her head off.

[HomelessOne]

 

Worth noting we got a new toy as well.

[Maniacal_cackle]

35 minutes ago, HomelessOne said:

 

Worth noting we got a new toy as well.

I'm excited to see some Maori representation! Will have to ask my friends how Wyrd did with the representation.

[Ogid]

A highlight for this one is the Distraction aura, very powerful. ARC attacks to Df mostly so not sure about the OOK potential of it, but Colette and her girls could make good use of it (and even the constructs, even with stat4 the Dazzling Flourish of the Mannequin will succeed most of the time versus a model affected by that aura)

Also Ngeri Haka seems legit with Showgirls/Angelica (it'd be also good for Colette, but she doesn't need that much help fending on her own), it'd be interesting to see how those works now. Theoretically also with Cassandra's Finesse, but needing to activate the two models so there is more room to attack her before she is fully protected by a to duels that cannot be ignored and only versus mele attacks.

I like it, a good attemp to give more tools to the living part of the crew that was seeing less play.

[Silbuster]

A lot of this post looks like ancient history after two intervening errata. Given GG2, how do players feel about Colette? I feel that her downgrade is bad but not fatal but, what really disappoints me, is that, unlike McCabe, whose nerfing at least introduced a buff which radically improves the synergy of a wastrel crew, there is no  such synergy for the performers. The changes to Colette in GG2 only introduce dependencies on other performers. They are not stronger together; the absence of other performers only makes Colette weaker. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, Silbuster said:

A lot of this post looks like ancient history after two intervening errata. Given GG2, how do players feel about Colette? I feel that her downgrade is bad but not fatal but, what really disappoints me, is that, unlike McCabe, whose nerfing at least introduced a buff which radically improves the synergy of a wastrel crew, there is no  such synergy for the performers. The changes to Colette in GG2 only introduce dependencies on other performers. They are not stronger together; the absence of other performers only makes Colette weaker. 

I think the idea was the distraction buff would be that for Colette, but I don't think it is quite there. My overall impression of the distraction buff is that it is a lot weaker than it appears (since stacking distracted is still pretty hard in most crews).

[Fetid Strumpet]

I don't think that it's even a case of not being able to stack distracted efficiently. I think it was a buff, but with my Distract crews I'm finding that there is just too much in the game that:

A) Doesn't care about distracted, a scheme runner generally doesn't care if you distract it for example. Or has some ability to ignore it.

B) Actually gets buffed by distracted (Looking at you Shenlong and Ivan).

C) Has enough condition removal to either negate it (totally acceptable as counter-play is good) or throw it back at you with no chance to resist (Shenlong as an extreme example).

I think that B) is a big reason distracted heavy crews aren't going to get much of a boost. In a world where there are competitive crews out there where your core mechanics just make the opponent stronger are crews that just won't see as much play against any faction that has them. from personal anecdote, I've had a few games into TT lately and I've been eager to try out new Sybelle, but every time I go, oh, nope, Distracted won't help here, or oh, nope, Distracted will just make the opponent stronger.

Distracted is good, but I'm also coming to the acceptance that in the world of the game as it currently exists, it isn't as good as we thought even at the release of this errata. I don't think Distracted needs a buff in anyway, I think it's fine, but I do think that if a crew's mechanics were featured to heavily utilize distracted and the enemy having distracted doesn't buff the crew giving it out in some kind of reliable way, then those crews might need a slight tune up.

[Jordon]

I feel like the difference between her situation and McCabe, was that McCabe was being used in a way that was likely unintended from his initial design. Now McCabe works better (but different) within keyword and worst everywhere else. Colette works as intended (a little too well) but just got worst within keyword and even more so outside of keyword. 

With all that being said, she was way over tuned before. Even getting taken down several pegs, I still view her as one of the strongest masters in the faction. You just need to actually apply thought and caution with her actions now. 

There is also one legit buff, aside from the change to distracted. The removal of a suit to Presto Chango, combined with the change to her trick of the hat trigger means that its actually worthwhile to summon doves now. The trigger was basically useless before, now I'm going to try for it every time. 

So If your able to kill a dove for the ram trigger on Presto, you'll be getting two model movements, a scheme marker, a dove, and a card. That's quite a bit of stuff for a single action. You can decide whether or not it's still worst than what it was before. 

 

The way I try to look at these changes is by not focusing on what was lost and comparing her to how she was. I like to think of if this model in its current form, were to show up as a master in another faction, would people be impressed? My thoughts are yes. She's still an A-tier master and still seems like the obvious choice for a good many GG2 strats. 

[SEV]

As part of a draft, I played Colette for the first time (2 games, fully in keyword). So I obviously don't know here very well, but I can give you my freshman view.

I only played Colette post-nerf (and only played once against her pre-nerf against an inexperienced Colette player). So my view is not tainted by what she was before...

She felt really powerful, especially in GG2 were don't mind me is so useful in most strat (exept Leyline). 

Presto Chango must have been amazing before nerf because it was performing really well for me post-nerf. 

I disagree on the power of distracted. It's subtle but being able to remove so many foucus shot really increases your survivability imo. Also, mass stun felt amazing! 

It's hard to stack a big chunk of distracted for her other attack, but even moving a model 2" can be good in the right situations.

Also, she still seems unkillable to me.

I actually really enjoy my to first game with her. The models that surprise me the most in her keyword so far in her keyword are Harata (he does it all) and Angelica (great movement trick)... Duet being obviously good of course. I'm sad that showgirls don't have a bonus. They're fine for the cost I guess, but I would probably look for a better cheap minions OOK...

I bought her Nightmare edition box, mostly because I really like the theme but now I think I'll dive in to arcanist because of her/him 😀