Arcanist Masters: Schemes & Strategies

[AskM3L8r]

Been dabbling with Malifaux and more recently got freed up to get more invested.  The group at the store I play with is fairly diverse among the factions.  

My order of favorite Masters are Toni, Collette,  Mei and Marcus. Rasputina Kaeris and Sandeep are only at the bottom because I haven't explored them.

I have some sense of what they do, though.

I favor mobilty for the crews. Tricks and shenanigans like Rail walking, don't mind me,  and prest o change o are a few examples.

Seen a few times in games  and tournaments I think to myself "I picked the wrong scheme" or " I m not going to score on the strat because the crew is fragile"

I also not homicidal in games where some have come from war games.  Even if I run Toni and Howard or Marcus and a pair of Cerberus (example only) I don't systematically kill models.

1. How do I decide  on who to bring to which party?

2. Do I need to be homicidal in games (I'd rather use mind tricks,  smoke and mirrors)

3. What do I  do if I run Toni or Collette and they have Parker and Mad dog or T.T. and Seven Samurai. ( Or at least 3 Sam with mad ninja skills = those were painful games)

 

 

[extremor]

As I got stuck with Lucius back in October/November I made myself a systematicly analysis...

I won a M2e Lucius box at a  tournament at my LGS and had a hard time getting into the style of play Lucius is good at. I've lost quite some games really bad and was wondering why. So I looked at all the models and wrote down, which of the abilities, attacks and tactical actions I thought of as "good" or "strong"..... then I did the same thing with triggers/suits....

after that I looked at all 4 strategies and all 13 schemes and wrote down which models would be good at achieving the strategy or the scheme. While designing a List for a concrete game against an actual opponent I use this list and try to find the perfect balance between schemers/scorers and other models that support the schemers and scorers --> like tanks to keep the opponent distrated from my original goal, like debuffers that use effekts like "slow, staggered, stunned..." to disrupt my opponents play or like beaters that can kill the most dangerous models (those that hurt my schemers most... not my crew in general)...

 

this advice is my personal answer to your first question. Regarding your second question I think it hardly depends on your style of play. To me the answer is yes. I usually have in mind which models are ok to die and which models are actualy important to my plan. Those ok to die I play more aggressivly to distract and lure my opponent away from the important schemers..

[Vangerdahast]

@AskM3L8r:

1- The same advice as extremor. Know what your Crew can do and choose Strategy and Schemes accordingly.

2- Really depends on personal playstyle and Strategy and Schemes. For example, I recently won a Turf War game in Corner Deployment (7-5) with Colette versus Sonnia Criid (a killing Keyword). At the end of the game, I have only killed a Queller and I had only Colette and a Soulstone Miner left. The Schemes were: Power ritual, Breakthrough, Assassinate, Outflank, Search the ruins. I chose Search the Ruins and Power Ritual. Winning without killing is a valid option but not for each game (and requires a bit of practice). In such games, I generally spread my crew all over the table so that my opponent cannot focus all his crew on the same target and oblige him to divide his forces.

3- I should soon face Parker but for the moment I would say don't choose Marker based Schemes to limit the effectiveness of the Crew (but Parker has Triggers to force you dropping Scheme Markers, so will be difficult).

I regularly face Misaki with Fuhatsu and 2 Samurai. Yes, they are painful. Use terrain to hide  from them and use your Hand to cheat high Df flips and die as late as possible.

With Colette, use Sword Trick to bury a Samurai especially if your opponent has not dropped Scheme Markers. The Samurai will be unburied in his deployment zone. He will use actions to move to  be in range for his gatling gun. He will shoot less often. Concerning shooting in general, do you have enough blocking terrain on your tables?

 

[Ogid]

2 hours ago, AskM3L8r said:

1. How do I decide  on who to bring to which party?

2. Do I need to be homicidal in games (I'd rather use mind tricks,  smoke and mirrors)

3. What do I  do if I run Toni or Collette and they have Parker and Mad dog or T.T. and Seven Samurai. ( Or at least 3 Sam with mad ninja skills = those were painful games)

These will improve as you improve. As extremor said this needs knowledge, prior analysis and knowing how the other faction works.

1. Probably the 4 more important things to consider:

• Which masters/models can handle well the pool
• Is there any master that is nuts versus the other faction (Shenlong vs Res for example)
• Which enemy masters handle well that pool and how your faction leaders performs versus these.
• If there is something in the other faction that hardcounters (or make life much harder for) one of your masters.

2. Depends on your style, the pool and the enemy master. Kills or kill potential will keep enemy models in check and will give you some breating air; but if you are confident that can outmaneouver (or your crew just can't clash with the enemy one), then go for tricks and mobility.

3. This comes from point 1. If you picked those masters, you should have a plan to handle these kind of models. If you didn't see it coming, then you'd have to see which are your viable victory conditions that game and go for it and adapt; or maybe repurpose models. For example, If you included Carlos he can try to control one of these Samurais instead of running around scheming: With Df6 can hope to dodge the gatling and tie the Daito, Burning will be useful versus high armor and Distracted will be useful versus Samurai's mele attack. If things go south he can tank some damage with SS.

[retnab]

For me it's a mix of who do I feel in the mood to play, and from there who do I think would be best into the situation?  For example, if I want to play Kaeris and Ironsides in a certain pool but I see my opponent is  bringing Bayou I'd 100% pick Ironsides, since I know my opponent could easily hire things to remove any Pyre Markers.  For individual hires there are a few models I take in certain situations.  If there are 3 or more Scheme Marker related Schemes I 100% take someone with Arson (Iggy, Fitz, or a Saboteur), if the enemy's really projectile attack heavy I bring the Captain, if I'm playing Mei Feng and the enemy doesn't have a lot of ranged threat I bring Sparks, etc.

Also as a fun little anecdote I recent went to a tournament where it was me and one other Arcanist player.  In all 3 rounds we picked the exact same Masters without talking about it beforehand (Turf War: Mei Feng, Corrupted Idols: Colette, Reckoning: Ironsides), including an Ironsides mirror match between us xD

As far as being homicidal in games, I think that depends on the crew.  Some crews like Kaeris are kind of all about doing more damage to the enemy than they're taking in return, but others like Colette or I'd argue Raspy are more about delaying or harassing the enemy rather than outright killing them (as a recent example in one of my games, Colette Sword Trick'ing a Mature Nephilim to get it out of the way without actually having to deal with its huge health pool and regen).

[bertmac]

So far for me, turf war is ironsides, plant explosives marcus, i think marcus into cursed idols and whoever you feel comfortable with for reckoning 

[Mycellanious]

2 hours ago, bertmac said:

So far for me, turf war is ironsides, plant explosives marcus, i think marcus into cursed idols and whoever you feel comfortable with for reckoning 

I like Marcus into Reckoning because he has an insignificant totem and Myranda can be not a henchmen when she dies, so Marcus can deny reckoning points very well. I like Mei Feng for Plant Exlosives because Foundry really benefits when enemies spread out and have to spend AP interacting

[CD1248]

My usual suspects are thus:

Turf: Ironsides or Hoff depending on my mood, EXCEPT in Corner, then it's Marcus 100% for mobility.

Plant: Colette, unless it's against 10T then Sandeep. Maybe Kaeris if I'm feeling frisky.

Idols: Sandeep always.

Reckoning: Ironsides or Kaeris, maybe Marcus if it's Corner.

Mei Feng I feel lacks pop in Arc, she's fine but just doesn't wow me like she does in 10T. The less said about Raspy the better.

[Kaeris_Main]

On 1/1/2020 at 12:04 AM, retnab said:

For example, if I want to play Kaeris and Ironsides in a certain pool but I see my opponent is  bringing Bayou I'd 100% pick Ironsides, since I know my opponent could easily hire things to remove any Pyre Markers. 

I'm not sure if I'm missing something? Pyre markers aren't destructible, and as of such blow it to hell, demolitionist, etc, don't work. The only thing in Bayou- although, I did only skim since I don't really know the M3E faction- that could be ARGUED to work is the Lucky Emissary since it's a marker removal and not a terrain removal. And that's a 10pt model. I'm fine if the tech piece they have to take to remove pyre markers is 10 points even if I wouldn't be thrilled about an 8inch WK model with a 12 push on the opposite side lol.

[Kaeris_Main]

As to your question...

1. Experience. Meh answer but it's what I got. I agree from up there that writing down what schemes and strats you think a crew would be good into based on their abilities would be a solid way to figure that out and help you solidify a list. Once you know a crew really well you know what you can do, and you know what you can do if things are going badly...

Retnab's right in that tech pieces can be really great, especially the anti-scheming picks. I brought Miss Fire into a Wildfire list because I was playing against Euripedes although I would never normally do that. This, of course, favours people with bigger collections and who have gone deeper into factions and thus have the models available.

If you really like flexibility maybe try Sandeep- he can pivot really quickly into new plans. Plus the Sandeep I just played, on Turn One, deployed the Ice Golem like, two inches from my deployment zone (didn't really have the hand/models to punish since he waited for my bigger models to activate first). Sandeep's REALLY quick with Basanuva and Kandara.

2. Nope! Remember- killing is fun but it's not how you win (outside Reckoning/Assassinate/Vendetta/etc). I'm actually pretty bad at Reckoning because I can't switch the kill instinct on. In my Wildfire crews I usually only take one dedicated beater + Kaeris for damage & then hold the enemy while my schemers score. Ironsides is a good way to try and flick that kill switch though.

3. Ah! Sometimes a game is an uphill battle just through masters alone... but there's always a way to win even if it means playing a master in an unconventional way.

I took Ironsides into Shenlong, and he took Masked Agent. Awful, right? A frustrating counter. I still won. Like, 6-5, but still. 2 strat (Turf), max scheme (Outflank + Detonate Charges). He got 3 strat, 2 scheme.

He showed outflank and hold up their forces end of turn 2 (unwise unbury placement of my SS miners...) so I hard committed my bubble to one corner, thus denying him his second outflank and hold up unless he came to me, used my emissary to kill the schemer on the other flank (who then died, 10pt model for a 6pt model), ceded 2/3's of the board, and proceeded to avoid fighting him since I didn't have to, using cover/concealment. He extended away from his gunline turn 4 which gave me detonate charges through the union miner (plan was to use Bring It to bring over someone late in the turn but he just walked on over, so ace). He killed Langston during his activation in T5 so Ironsides killed the totems. Waste of a master's AP, right? Nope. Killing Langston did nothing for him, points wise. However, those totems would've pushed him away from my scheme markers the union miner dropped. It was what I needed to do to get the point.

No AP or kill is more valuable than points. If a crew counters you, you do not need to fight. If you have a bad hand, you do not need to fight. Sometimes the opponent might force you to, of course. But you do not need to. If your master does one thing really well, that doesn't mean you have to do it. Colette feels awesome at evading, but as my Ironsides v Shenlong game indicated, Ironsides can evade and find a way to win, even if she isn't playing to her strengths.

 

As an aside........

I take Kaeris into everything, as my username may suggest.

I love her in Turf and Plant. Carlos is super fast, Firestarter gets a unfairly bad rep but I love the model, and between the two of them + Kaeris there's not much they can't scheme. Turf War and Flank deployment is the Kaeris dream.

I only play Kaeris - Ironsides - Raspy at the moment so I do struggle finding a crew for Idols since it's not their ideal strategy. I'm not great at Reckoning either, mostly because I don't tend to get killy, but Ironsides would be my competitive pick. Stick her, Fitz, and Langston together and unless your opponent has blasts you'll be fine (and if you know in advance bring the Captain). Probably going to pick up Sandeep next just because I want to paint his crew, although I'm a bit iffy taking a summoner into a Idols. I really want to pick up Mei Feng since walking 12 inches with one AP is amazing fun and hilariously frustrating if they've unwisely picked Take Prisoner or something. But also Colette...... too many options.

And hey, hey, Raspy's great in Turf. Definitely her best strat. She's slow, but take Dec Acolytes & Soulstone Miners for some speed (Hoarcats good too... Ice Dancers good on card but haven't played well on the table for me). Stick the Ice Golem front and centre, back it up with a Silent One, and Blizzard to your heart's content. Raspy sits so far back on the board she's a nightmare for crews to actually get to (especially melee crews) and thus she doesn't really care about being pressured (great anti-assassination pick with her ice pillar backup). She's all about board control and forcing simple duels to drain hands. Doesn't sound like she's your thing if you like quick crews, though- she's not super adaptable either. Wouldn't like her into Idols. Once you commit, you commit. Still, she's definitely not the strongest master we have. Fun though.

 

That got long. Hope that helped. 😐

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Kaeris_Main said:

I'm not sure if I'm missing something? Pyre markers aren't destructible, and as of such blow it to hell, demolitionist, etc, don't work. The only thing in Bayou- although, I did only skim since I don't really know the M3E faction- that could be ARGUED to work is the Lucky Emissary since it's a marker removal and not a terrain removal. And that's a 10pt model. I'm fine if the tech piece they have to take to remove pyre markers is 10 points even if I wouldn't be thrilled about an 8inch WK model with a 12 push on the opposite side lol.

There are some models able to remove markers in general which includes basically anything that isn't an strategy marker or a model. As you said the Lucky Emissary is a pain for crews that uses those kind of non destructible markers because it can remove several of them using only 1 AP with Steamroller; Gluttony can also make your own model eat the Pyres with Maddening Drums, and mancha roja can... extinguish a pyre hitting it with your own model? Anyway he can also remove markers with his mele attack. Not sure if there is something more in the faction able to remove markers.

[Adran]

There are also wraslers who can hit you with your own marker. (Well remove a marker to make their own attack better). 

[retnab]

Yeah it was Mancha and the Wrastlers I meant with my Kaeris bit, my regular Bayou player dropped an out of keyword Mancha hire on my Kaeris list once and it hurt.

[Kaeris_Main]

Thanks everyone! Totally forgot about the Wrastlers- nobody in my meta has them so I don't need to worry about them yet 🤣  Sounds horrible for Kaeris though. Didn't know about Gluttony's ability since nobody has the Crossroads Seven so I've only played against Envy. So, I'm golden in the Kaeris v Bayou meta....... for now. I imagine that's gonna change in the next few months. I'll have to brush up on my Ironsides skills!