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Nekima Crew Essentials/Builds


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11 hours ago, Kharnage said:

I'm sure you've read my list elsewhere, but the Double-Mature build 
Nekima w/ IR
Hayreddin w/ IR
Mature w/ AP
Mature w/ AP
Black Blood Shaman
Blood Hunter
7 stones

Do you find yourself not putting IR on Hayreddin, and instead putting it onto a Mature to make it more of a tarpit/annoyance? The AP can go onto the BBS to keep the +2 to Initiative flips.

Also, what are you usually bringing Hayreddin for?

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12 minutes ago, farmoar said:

Do you find yourself not putting IR on Hayreddin, and instead putting it onto a Mature to make it more of a tarpit/annoyance? The AP can go onto the BBS to keep the +2 to Initiative flips.

Also, what are you usually bringing Hayreddin for?

Ancient pacts on minions is nuts (for the extra card draw). I'd not dismiss it lightly!

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1 hour ago, farmoar said:

Do you find yourself not putting IR on Hayreddin, and instead putting it onto a Mature to make it more of a tarpit/annoyance? The AP can go onto the BBS to keep the +2 to Initiative flips.

Also, what are you usually bringing Hayreddin for?

Nope, not being able to black joker on the Fly With Me flips and damage tracks is pretty rad, and they have combat finesse and Regen +2, which is tankier than Hayreddin with his Df 6 and stone use. Honestly, he needs the BFJ and I need the card draw, and I don't want to put it on the Shaman because he'll lose the upgrade if/when he has to replace a mature. Hayreddin is the only not-reach-2" meleer I have, and he needs that BFJ to stay alive.
Hayreddin is used to splat-bat people into the floor. He's got a better damage track than Nekima, essentially. Also he's our only summoner in Keyword.
2/3/4, plus Necrotic Decay for +2 damage, and because he took damage from the Necrotic Decay trigger, he provokes black blood, dealing an extra point of damage for effectively 4+1/5+1/6+1. to top it off, he has Blade Rush now, for a potential 4+1+1/5+1+1/6+1+1 damage track, all for a single AP. 
Finally, he has mask trigger for double-Pustule, for a potential 4 AoE undodgeable damage in a 2 inch pulse, not including his own Blood for Blood. Watching a model who thinks its safe with high stats, or serene countenance, or take the hit, but just eating 4 damage with no resist, is super clean. Or worse, multiple models in the radius. 

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1 minute ago, farmoar said:

how is it 4 damage? What am I missing in my sleep-deprived state?

Black blood pustule can damage a target with black blood, triggering black blood. With a stone for a mask trigger, you can do it twice with one action.

Do that with both actions, and you have a total of 4 black blood pulses. You deal four to an ally, but four to enemies as well.

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45 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Black blood pustule can damage a target with black blood, triggering black blood. With a stone for a mask trigger, you can do it twice with one action.

Do that with both actions, and you have a total of 4 black blood pulses. You deal four to an ally, but four to enemies as well.

Which is also the most likely way to get some tots out to start growing.

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The crew has some tricks to deal extra BB splash damage (aside from the obvious Blood for Blood) to grow tots; Lelu's Masochistic Thoughts can let each model of the crew deal 1 damage at the end of its activation, Hounds,Tots and BBS have weak 1 damage; so they can attack an ally to get some extra splash damage if they are facing models with high defenses/:-flipto duel (in the BBS case also potentially generating a corpse, BBS can use Pustule tho). That may also make models clump a bit, but as long as Hayreddin is near with his healing aura it's not that problematic; funnily enough with enough Nephs clumped, blasts and shockwaves will start healing them XDD.

The only "negative" part is BB has range 1 (except when BBP is used) while Lilitu, Matures, Nekima have mele range 2.

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Plenty of Sz 1 for ‘fly with me’ as well as 3x living for bbs heal, a ride with me for Lilitu or whomever; 12ss left over.

 

Carry Living Sz 1 (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 10
Leader:
  Nekima
Totem(s):
  Blood Hunter
Hires:
  Black Blood Shaman
  Black Blood Shaman 2
  Iggy
  Baby Kade
  Hooded Rider
References:
  Mature Nephilim

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On 12/15/2019 at 5:18 PM, goth said:

Plenty of Sz 1 for ‘fly with me’ as well as 3x living for bbs heal, a ride with me for Lilitu or whomever; 12ss left over.

 

Carry Living Sz 1 (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 10
Leader:
  Nekima
Totem(s):
  Blood Hunter
Hires:
  Black Blood Shaman
  Black Blood Shaman 2
  Iggy
  Baby Kade
  Hooded Rider
References:
  Mature Nephilim

You should have Candy in the mix as well. No-one likes Candy and her caramel aura of sticky sweetness.

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On 12/15/2019 at 8:18 AM, goth said:

Plenty of Sz 1 for ‘fly with me’ as well as 3x living for bbs heal, a ride with me for Lilitu or whomever; 12ss left over.

 

Carry Living Sz 1 (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 10
Leader:
  Nekima
Totem(s):
  Blood Hunter
Hires:
  Black Blood Shaman
  Black Blood Shaman 2
  Iggy
  Baby Kade
  Hooded Rider
References:
  Mature Nephilim

That looks intriguing, as I have painted/love all these models. I'm curious how it plays, and also if taking iggy is more useful (with the extra stones), or Candy (and losing some stones). 

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  • 1 month later...

This happended kind of an off topic in another thread but I think it'd be more useful here:

4 hours ago, out4egos said:

At 6 ss that's a little too high for me  il take 2 young who are pretty good in a fight.  Thru have built in pos flips.  Normally if one of my matures go down one of them will replace.  Hayreddin can do the mask trigger for the corpse marker. I hit nekima before she activates for a grow token on one of the young. Turn one.  Hayreddin can do a ton of damage.  My alpha list is 

Nekima 

Bloodhunter

Hayreddin 

Mature x2

Young x2

Terror tot

3ss

You can drop the tot and give neck butterfly and have 5ss because I tend to pack so jumping out is pointless. Also the bb splash will heal with hayreddin around

Defense duels with matures is very important you can't cheat melee  against them. So instead of cheating for triggers save those high cards for defense duels. 

 

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A question to Nekima players, anyone tried Vasilisa with Nephilims? I'm pretty sure she'd be legit, but I'm not sure how good until I get my Nephs. There are a few shenanigans that could make her decent with them:

  • Shove Aside: Both Nephs attacking her to gain extra charge inches (which most of the time will only deal 1 damage to her) and Neph sending annoying models not worth to kill in B2B with her.
  • Pulling the strings: A ton of utility, Growing matures in turn 1 without slowing Nekima down, Heal models with Grim Feast outside of their activations, Get extra Mature attacks or Fly with me uses. Fighting near of enemy scheme markers is the ideal, but if not a BBS/Doll/dog/Effigy may be used to set up those scheme markers quite efficiently.
  • Tarpit and Control: Tanky, discard cards, Staggered and self-healing.
  • Move Along: Nephs with Mv7.
  • Scoop up + Effigy: Double move in turn 1 and let the effigy lure 2 models ahead (or Nekima 12'')
  • Careful Assembly: Unreliable not being able to stonne the trigger, but if more puppets are included it may help to keep them in the table or even upgrade a doll/effigy to an stitched if a 9:mask happens to be in the hand.

I've been thinking about trying the following lists, any feedback would be apretiated:

Nekima (IR), BH, Hayreddin, Vasilisa, Mature, Mature, BBS, 5SS. Here the player has the choice to double Focused pulse in turn 1 or use a free "Fly with Me" to give a Mature and Hayreddin 6 and 7.2 free movement in turn 1 (so a single Mature may advance 12 with Fly with me before having to use AP to move).

Nekima (IR), BH, Hayreddin, Vasilisa, Mature, BBS, BBS, Effigy, 5SS. This list allows to attack with Nekima, Hayreddin and 1 Mature with Focused+3 in turn 1; being also able to move Nekima Forward 12'' or Nekima and Hayreddin 6' with Vasilisa and the Effigy'. The Mature will grow in turn 1 (so in turn 2 he would be with 8 Wds and able to use Fly with me)

Nekima (IR), BH, Hayreddin (IR), Vasilisa, Serena, BBS, BBS, Doll, 6SS. This list double grow both BBS into matures in turn 1 for again Focused+3 but this time using 1 Nekima AP (this is a more grow Focused list with low agression in turn 1). The doll is here to put the scheme Marker and Adversary (Nephilim) in Nekima (then scheme or Adversary) so we have an easier time getting the triggers (3 needed); Serena role first turn is patch the Matures (or Nekima if bad things happens); so both Matures are at full Wds in turn 2 (and her mele damage track make good use of Focused). Note that with this list it could happen that in turn 1 we had a bad hand with few/no :mask or :ram (15% of the initial hands will have no :mask); so it's important to be ready to adapt if that happens.

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Wedge deploy with reckoning. Man that list is perfect. Activate neck. First spend 2 ap getting her there one for the charge hopefully get a blade rush point.  Make sure to do enraged then activate a mature and fly with me hayreddin.  Then second mature move move fly with me hayreddin.  Boom hayreddin is closer now and can charge with his crow trigger pump up the damage also bb splash as his pump is a trigger. Between him and neck u Just killed an important model or 2. Your opponent is like wtf... bring the blood hunter with the tot to scheme run regurgitate some corpse markers for grow.  Get you a lelitu for that 12 inch stat 7 lure to mess up some enemy schemes. Use the two young to reinforce neck's Death squad hayreddin is healing enemy hits bb spray.  Plus regeneration on everyone using stones to prevent really bad damage.... neck can toss some fast food corpse markers to the young have ready to grow incase a mature goes down... 

Sorry post is long I got cought up in it

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12 hours ago, Ogid said:

A question to Nekima players, anyone tried Vasilisa with Nephilims? I'm pretty sure she'd be legit, but I'm not sure how good until I get my Nephs. There are a few shenanigans that could make her decent with them:

  • Shove Aside: Both Nephs attacking her to gain extra charge inches (which most of the time will only deal 1 damage to her) and Neph sending annoying models not worth to kill in B2B with her.
  • Pulling the strings: A ton of utility, Growing matures in turn 1 without slowing Nekima down, Heal models with Grim Feast outside of their activations, Get extra Mature attacks or Fly with me uses. Fighting near of enemy scheme markers is the ideal, but if not a BBS/Doll/dog/Effigy may be used to set up those scheme markers quite efficiently.
  • Tarpit and Control: Tanky, discard cards, Staggered and self-healing.
  • Move Along: Nephs with Mv7.
  • Scoop up + Effigy: Double move in turn 1 and let the effigy lure 2 models ahead (or Nekima 12'')
  • Careful Assembly: Unreliable not being able to stonne the trigger, but if more puppets are included it may help to keep them in the table or even upgrade a doll/effigy to an stitched if a 9:mask happens to be in the hand.

I've been thinking about trying the following lists, any feedback would be apretiated:

Nekima (IR), BH, Hayreddin, Vasilisa, Mature, Mature, BBS, 5SS. Here the player has the choice to double Focused pulse in turn 1 or use a free "Fly with Me" to give a Mature and Hayreddin 6 and 7.2 free movement in turn 1 (so a single Mature may advance 12 with Fly with me before having to use AP to move).

Nekima (IR), BH, Hayreddin, Vasilisa, Mature, BBS, BBS, Effigy, 5SS. This list allows to attack with Nekima, Hayreddin and 1 Mature with Focused+3 in turn 1; being also able to move Nekima Forward 12'' or Nekima and Hayreddin 6' with Vasilisa and the Effigy'. The Mature will grow in turn 1 (so in turn 2 he would be with 8 Wds and able to use Fly with me)

Nekima (IR), BH, Hayreddin (IR), Vasilisa, Serena, BBS, BBS, Doll, 6SS. This list double grow both BBS into matures in turn 1 for again Focused+3 but this time using 1 Nekima AP (this is a more grow Focused list with low agression in turn 1). The doll is here to put the scheme Marker and Adversary (Nephilim) in Nekima (then scheme or Adversary) so we have an easier time getting the triggers (3 needed); Serena role first turn is patch the Matures (or Nekima if bad things happens); so both Matures are at full Wds in turn 2 (and her mele damage track make good use of Focused). Note that with this list it could happen that in turn 1 we had a bad hand with few/no :mask or :ram (15% of the initial hands will have no :mask); so it's important to be ready to adapt if that happens.

Vasilisa is an auto take in every Nephilim list I've played the last handful of months.

Pull the strings alone makes it worth because it increases my crew's focus tokens by 100% and gets me an extra activation out of the soon to be grown mature out of the BBS.  The AP value alone is amazing.  Couple that with Move Along and I now have a 23" turn 1 threat range vs any schemers that wanna try and be cheeky.  

Along with that she can scoop up a wicked doll (which you should always have one of), to get them moving, and then if/when that dies, she has the ability (albeit inconsistently), to make a stitched... which I know I don't need to explain why that's a good thing.  Worst case scenario she can rebuild the doll.

She's also MASSIVELY tanky so she can stand where other nephilims don't want to (hello claim jump).  There's other things too but she gives so much value to the crew she should be taken in literally every game with Nekima.  Not for the summoning mind you, that's just an occasional bonus.  It's the utility you want.

My standard Nekima list goes:

Nekima w/ IR

Bloodhunter

Hayreddin

Mature Nephilim

Vasilisa

Wicked Doll

Black Blood Shaman

That leaves you with 12 stones, and you can insert whatever you like to help in whatever matchup you're in.  Need more melee murder, a young and IR on the Mature.  Need some sniping, Angel fits in nicely.  Want to double down on the puppets?  Hina is an option.  The above however is my core in 95% of games.

TL;DR: Vasi is as good on the table as she looks like, if not better.

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I understand that you're all free to play the God Empress as you see fit, but...
How do you play Nekima with 3-5 stones?! Truly this is beyond my comprehension. She is such a squishball without a proper cache, and stoning for Shove Aside can be the big play that you need to win, but if you're saving your stones for cards, or to not die, with only 3-5 stones, I can't see it all being done. 
I also don't know how people play without Ancient Pacts. It's such a critical part of crushing foes; that first activation can be the difference between salvation and perdition. Or for the current season, guaranteeing where that Corrupted Idol marker goes. Not to mention how many times I've had a Mature go from "0 damage" to "4 damage" by dodging the BJ in clutch moments, or drawn that severe I was looking for after their turn ends. 
Also, the fact that no one wants to give my boy Hayreddin Inhuman Reflexes is just sad. He's the most targeted model in the crew, in my experience (assuming Young aren't on the board), my foes hunt him with extreme prejudice, and without BFJ he'd crumble quickly. 
Finally, hiring non-nephilim as part of your core is... not the way of my people. I'm not even sure half bloods count. 

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3 hours ago, Kharnage said:

I understand that you're all free to play the God Empress as you see fit, but...
How do you play Nekima with 3-5 stones?! Truly this is beyond my comprehension. She is such a squishball without a proper cache, and stoning for Shove Aside can be the big play that you need to win, but if you're saving your stones for cards, or to not die, with only 3-5 stones, I can't see it all being done. 
I also don't know how people play without Ancient Pacts. It's such a critical part of crushing foes; that first activation can be the difference between salvation and perdition. Or for the current season, guaranteeing where that Corrupted Idol marker goes. Not to mention how many times I've had a Mature go from "0 damage" to "4 damage" by dodging the BJ in clutch moments, or drawn that severe I was looking for after their turn ends. 
Also, the fact that no one wants to give my boy Hayreddin Inhuman Reflexes is just sad. He's the most targeted model in the crew, in my experience (assuming Young aren't on the board), my foes hunt him with extreme prejudice, and without BFJ he'd crumble quickly. 

I guess there are different ways to approach the same scenario. I still need to try this crew tho so take this with a pinch of salt.

Your 6 model list seems consistent thanks to the extra card draw and the initiative boost (but it's also kind of risky in the sense that with only 6 models and 8SS worth of upgrades it's also behind in total amount of wounds and lack cheap AP). Ancient pacts will also have a bigger impact with that low ammount of models because your Matures will be flipping the BJ much more frecuently than in a 8-9 model list. With that low amount of model it'd be easier to attack Nekima or Hayreddin than if 2 or 3 extra models are in the fray keeping other models busy, in that case the bigger cache and IR in Hayreddin also become a big deal (3SS is a low cache imo, but with 5-6 it should be playable). That 6 model list for rushing or to get initiative in idols seems good, but I hope it's not the only viable way to play Nephs.

The Focused pulse is an amazing tool, so making lists around a Focused+2 or +3 opening and bring a 2/4/6 damage track like Serena/Rougarou could be a very good idea. Even lacking the extra card draw, Focused will take some pressure out of the hand later. Nephilims seems to work well only with keyword models, but there are some OOK/Versatiles that can be great in the crew and can give it different ways to approach a game, not only the "live fast, die young" turn 1 glass cannon rush. In the above case, Vasilisa giving extra AP to minions and Nephs having the most expensive minion in the faction is just a great match; plus she is a tanky model able to give some backbone to the crew (and also it's unlikely that anti-Armor is hired versus Nephs). And all that without entering in the mind games type of crew territory.

The BBS into Mature grow is quite efficient even if it makes the crew lose some momentum; it's also to consider in the right game. I have more doubts about the viability of more greedy grow lists with BBS and tots tho (those needing more than 3-4 corpse markers in turn 1); primarily because the RNG is there and there could be really bad hands for a very suit reliant opening, so it's too inconsistent.

3 hours ago, Kharnage said:

Finally, hiring non-nephilim as part of your core is... not the way of my people. I'm not even sure half bloods count.

giphy.gif

:D

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3 hours ago, Kharnage said:

I understand that you're all free to play the God Empress as you see fit, but...
How do you play Nekima with 3-5 stones?! Truly this is beyond my comprehension. She is such a squishball without a proper cache, and stoning for Shove Aside can be the big play that you need to win, but if you're saving your stones for cards, or to not die, with only 3-5 stones, I can't see it all being done. 
I also don't know how people play without Ancient Pacts. It's such a critical part of crushing foes; that first activation can be the difference between salvation and perdition. Or for the current season, guaranteeing where that Corrupted Idol marker goes. Not to mention how many times I've had a Mature go from "0 damage" to "4 damage" by dodging the BJ in clutch moments, or drawn that severe I was looking for after their turn ends. 
Also, the fact that no one wants to give my boy Hayreddin Inhuman Reflexes is just sad. He's the most targeted model in the crew, in my experience (assuming Young aren't on the board), my foes hunt him with extreme prejudice, and without BFJ he'd crumble quickly. 
Finally, hiring non-nephilim as part of your core is... not the way of my people. I'm not even sure half bloods count. 

I'm not sure how people use so few stones with any Neverborn master tbh, maybe its a crutch of mine but I don't feel comfortable with less than 7 stones and sometimes I will take 8 or 9 even. If I am using Candy (who I like to bring in sometimes with Nekima as well as pretty much everybody else) then I need 3-4 stones just for her most games. It's really necessary for me to keep my masters and henchmen alive (to date I don't think I've lost my master in 3e, though I've come very close in most games). 

Edited by Ezuma
clarifying
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1 hour ago, Ogid said:
5 hours ago, Kharnage said:

Finally, hiring non-nephilim as part of your core is... not the way of my people. I'm not even sure half bloods count.

giphy.gif

:D

I mean if "Nephilim Supremacist" is what I'm being accused of, then... guilty as charged xD
I agree with the points about potential list diversity. I just personally loathe using OOK models to fill out my crew if I can avoid it. And there's so much diversity about what you can do with it; the 6 man crew can be used a variety of ways, they don't have to rush, but they can, and that totally changes the game for a lot of opponents. That's how I can show up to 5 different tournaments running the same list in each round and still be competitive. 

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9 hours ago, Ezuma said:

I'm not sure how people use so few stones with any Neverborn master tbh, maybe its a crutch of mine but I don't feel comfortable with less than 7 stones and sometimes I will take 8 or 9 even. If I am using Candy (who I like to bring in sometimes with Nekima as well as pretty much everybody else) then I need 3-4 stones just for her most games. It's really necessary for me to keep my masters and henchmen alive (to date I don't think I've lost my master in 3e, though I've come very close in most games). 

I'm down to 5-6 stones on Dreamer, and less on Pandora.

When I learn a new master, I intentionally cut myself short on stones to force myself to be a lot more conscientious about what I'm stoning for. I eventually relax the restriction, but as a result, I'm pretty stone efficient in most of my games.

Although I definitely lose some games early on from not having stones when I need them xD

In general, stoning to prevent damage is pretty inefficient if you can avoid it. The best way to avoid damage is to not get hit (either by killing anything that gets near your key models or putting so much pressure they can't dedicate enough resources to killing your or just superior positioning).

That said, having stones available to prevent damage is pretty crucial. There's been loads of times where opponents have thought about attacking one of my models, and realised they couldn't actually kill me because I had stones to prevent damage, so just did something else instead.

EDIT: Another thing about my playstyle is that if someone kills my master, it is... fine. Even if they kill Dreamer at the end of turn 3, unless they have assassinate or reckoning, that just means they dedicated tons of resources to wiping out a model that was in a pretty safe place, while I was focused on securing victory points.

EDIT2: Pandora... yeah, she dies tons. I'm not good with her yet. Too aggressive with Mood Swings.

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13 hours ago, Kharnage said:

I understand that you're all free to play the God Empress as you see fit, but...
Finally, hiring non-nephilim as part of your core is... not the way of my people. I'm not even sure half bloods count. 

Both of these statements are worthy of execution during the return of the true queen...

13 hours ago, Kharnage said:

How do you play Nekima with 3-5 stones?! Truly this is beyond my comprehension. She is such a squishball without a proper cache, and stoning for Shove Aside can be the big play that you need to win, but if you're saving your stones for cards, or to not die, with only 3-5 stones, I can't see it all being done. 
I also don't know how people play without Ancient Pacts. It's such a critical part of crushing foes; that first activation can be the difference between salvation and perdition. Or for the current season, guaranteeing where that Corrupted Idol marker goes. Not to mention how many times I've had a Mature go from "0 damage" to "4 damage" by dodging the BJ in clutch moments, or drawn that severe I was looking for after their turn ends. 
Also, the fact that no one wants to give my boy Hayreddin Inhuman Reflexes is just sad. He's the most targeted model in the crew, in my experience (assuming Young aren't on the board), my foes hunt him with extreme prejudice, and without BFJ he'd crumble quickly. 

I've never needed shove aside badly enough to stone for it, and even if I did 3-5 is plenty for her.  You assume (incorrectly) that she's supposed to survive the melee in the middle.  The damage reduction from stones is not reliable enough to be considered more than 1 damage per stone.  Will the reduction keep her alive?  Sometimes.  Is it reliable enough to outweigh an entire other model or crucial upgrade?  No.  If assassinate is in the pool, then you have her play outrider to murder anything that leaves the protection of the rest of it's crew (although good luck with that vs someone like Toni).

Ancient Pacts is alright, but really only viable in Idols.  The black joker is irrelevant to the small models, and you don't want that upgrade on something big like a mature, which should have IR instead.  Anything that grows is also out of the question, since it'd lose the upgrade, which leaves small things like hounds or dolls, which is viable for the card draw and +1 initiative, not so much for the black joker (remember you're Nekima, not Dreamer).

Hayreddin shouldn't be dying at 9wd, 6/6, his heals, and soulstone use.  I've had him hold the line vs models short of a master on a fairly regular basis.  He just needs a little help on occasion.  

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2 hours ago, Nagi21 said:

Both of these statements are worthy of execution during the return of the true queen...

 

Lilith, that throne-stealing human-looking hussy, can stay in a hole where she belongs :P

As for Nekima's living in the melee prospects... what? Her death is a rare cause for celebration amongst my foes, even if it costs them the game. I think she's died maybe 3 times in 15 tournament games? I think the false assumption is that she has to die. The fact that you don't value 4 inches of enemy repositioning, up to 4 inches of friendly repositioning, and a free attack, as worth a stone, leaves me skeptical of the playstyle. 
 

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