Molly & Malifaux Beginners Advice Required

[Robbo]

I am totally new to Malifaux and looking for advice how to approach the game as a beginner and also how to approach it from a Mollys crew perspective.

 

What are the main bits of advice you’d give to a beginner about the game and also about Mollys crew, their synergy and strengths and weaknesses?

 

I have purchased the pirate themed Molly crew, Rogue Necro, Effigy, Crooligans and the Death rider – I will be proxying Archie until I can get a hold of one as he’s hard to find!.

 

I like the idea of playing a small elite crew but not sure how realistic this is with a core of Molly, Necro Machine, Archie, Rogue Necromancy.

I like the idea of some big imposing models an elite core and then I will add Crooligans and Rabble Risers as required maybe Death Rider if SS allow.

 

One thing I am not fully up to speed on and have not found much info on is how to affectively place the upgrades on the crew but I assume this will be come more clear to me the more I play?

 

First game Friday at 40ss I’m going with this crew…

 

Molly

Necro Machine

Archie (proxy)

Rogue Necromancy

Effigy (or crooligan)

Death Rider

Crooligan

 

Mostly based on rule of cool and the models I have from me2

 

Any help or constructive criticism would be welcomed

 

Thanks 

 

 

[farmoar]

Do you know what the strategy, deployment and scheme pool will be for your game? I find that with newer players, if you can set that out before the game happens, it lets you think about it more, and bring the appropriate models. I have seen some players get hit with decision paralysis when they are trying to wrap their heads around all the rules and interactions, and what should and shouldn't work with the scheme/strategy.

[Robbo]

Thanks. Not as yet but thanks for the advice it would give us something to refine now to save too much hassle trying to remember everything on the night. 

I feel my brain bulging with info already and this would help keep things flowing for the first game! 

[farmoar]

17 minutes ago, jimr0880 said:

Thanks. Not as yet but thanks for the advice it would give us something to refine now to save too much hassle trying to remember everything on the night. 

I feel my brain bulging with info already and this would help keep things flowing for the first game! 

If nothing else, it gives you more time to play, which is never a bad thing.

Early suggestion, if you are both set on 40ss is to keep the Effigy if it is Reckoning/Corrupted Idols (to keep your beaters healed up), or swap it for another Crooligan for Turf War/Plant Explosives

[Robbo]

Thanks this is all helpful information. 

I don’t ultimately mind picking the wrong crew for the first game but always good to have the knowledge in advance to help and as you say more game time is always good. 

Do you feel the elite list can be played with a Molly crew? Archie and Rogue Necromancy with maybe another such as Death Rider or is that not the way Molly plays? Or is this all dictated by the strategies and schemes? 

Any basic tips, tricks or pit falls I can fall into with Molly and her crew? 

[Clement]

I feel like the crew you've put together might be a bit "top heavy" for really marker-centric stuff, but Archie and the Dead Rider can cover a lot of ground easily if the need calls for it.  It's not "optimal", but that honestly shouldn't be your main concern right now.  As you move toward 50ss (It's not much of a stretch from 40ss) I'd look to try to increase your SS pool so you can start using them for other things.  Molly tends to get beat on for me since she's the source of all my opponents troubles, and you're going in with a very small number.

I'd say run it, no matter what actually comes up for the strats and schemes.  Then run it a few more times to really get comfortable with it.   If you want to make changes (swapping the number of crooligans/rabble risers/big beaters) I'd suggest doing so *slowly*, so you can really figure out what does and doesn't work for you.

[Maniacal_cackle]

31 minutes ago, jimr0880 said:

Do you feel the elite list can be played with a Molly crew? Archie and Rogue Necromancy with maybe another such as Death Rider or is that not the way Molly plays? Or is this all dictated by the strategies and schemes? 

One of the top Molly players plays elite Molly to great effect. She is great for it as she is a support/card draw master.

There is an index pinned to the top of this forum. I suggest reading old threads.

Your best elite models from what I hear are: Archie + manos, dead rider, followed by rogue necromancy.

[Robbo]

2 hours ago, Clement said:

I feel like the crew you've put together might be a bit "top heavy" for really marker-centric stuff, but Archie and the Dead Rider can cover a lot of ground easily if the need calls for it.  It's not "optimal", but that honestly shouldn't be your main concern right now.  As you move toward 50ss (It's not much of a stretch from 40ss) I'd look to try to increase your SS pool so you can start using them for other things.  Molly tends to get beat on for me since she's the source of all my opponents troubles, and you're going in with a very small number.

I'd say run it, no matter what actually comes up for the strats and schemes.  Then run it a few more times to really get comfortable with it.   If you want to make changes (swapping the number of crooligans/rabble risers/big beaters) I'd suggest doing so *slowly*, so you can really figure out what does and doesn't work for you.

I’m still learning so could you please explain the use of the larger soul stone pool please and how it would benefit the crew more?ive not got to that in the rules as yet.

 

So the rogue necromancy is perhaps the model to drop out of the three big hitters, keeping Archie and the dead rider. 

 

Great info thanks I’ll run the crew as much as I can to learn the ins and out 

[Robbo]

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

One of the top Molly players plays elite Molly to great effect. She is great for it as she is a support/card draw master.

There is an index pinned to the top of this forum. I suggest reading old threads.

Your best elite models from what I hear are: Archie + manos, dead rider, followed by rogue necromancy.

Excellent thanks for the heads up I’ll have a read of the info pinned and see what I can learn from it thanks.

Great, I really like the idea of playing elite so that’s good news. So this works well for molly because she can draw the cards quicker to ensure the heavy hitters have a good chance of doing what’s required? 

[Graf]

New Archie box comes in January, sadly together with Crooligans.

 

Soulstone usage you can find on p. 27. You can spend SS to draw cards, give yourself triggers, prevent damage, etc. 

 

With Malifaux you're also not limited to a single premade list. After both players announced their master, you build your list spontaneously. Especially as a beginner it's sensible to focus on a couple of models (I do the same) though. I just would not sweat it, you can switch some models in and out if you really want to. Buying, building and painting the models might be the the bigger hurdle xD. 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, jimr0880 said:

Excellent thanks for the heads up I’ll have a read of the info pinned and see what I can learn from it thanks.

Great, I really like the idea of playing elite so that’s good news. So this works well for molly because she can draw the cards quicker to ensure the heavy hitters have a good chance of doing what’s required? 

Molly in general is a support master. She doesn't hit hard, so she pairs well with a crew that hits hard for her. Additionally, she has Lethe's caress which can provide some defensive power for her beaters (enemies may struggle to spam attacks), she draws tons of cards, she does useful things to supplement like marker removal and dishing out slow...

But perhaps most of all, her keyword is insanely cost efficient for scheming AND scheme denial. Crooligans in particular. So running an elite crew with her, you're adding tons of fuel to the elite crew while still bringing solid scheming and scheme denial.

McMourning as a counterexample... He is a monstrous beater, so some of his crew has to play a support role to turn on his horrifying killing power. Molly requires virtually no support to turn 'on', she does her powerful things without support (other than dead rider 'ride with me')

I started out with minion Molly which is insanely good, IMO. But I'm working on buying the models for elite Molly as she seems even better.

[Clement]

1 hour ago, jimr0880 said:

I’m still learning so could you please explain the use of the larger soul stone pool please and how it would benefit the crew more?ive not got to that in the rules as yet.

 

So the rogue necromancy is perhaps the model to drop out of the three big hitters, keeping Archie and the dead rider. 

 

Great info thanks I’ll run the crew as much as I can to learn the ins and out 

Soul Stones tend to get used for 3 things (generally).   Cards, Offense (for suits and flips), and Defense (flips and damage prevention).  Molly often leaves all the henchmen at home, so she's going to be your main user of soul stones.  What I have discovered in my games with Molly is that she is very much a lynchpin of the crew.   I've heard her referred to as a Quarterback, and I think the comparison is appropriate.  But like comparison suggests, Molly has to be somewhat near the action, but isn't particularly well suited to getting beat on like your "lineman" models (Archie/rogue necro/dead rider).  You'll discover that when your opponent focuses before attacking, it neatly solves all three of her defensive tricks.  (Those being Lethe's caress, Serene Countenance, and Hard to Wound)

As such, if you're dealing with a killing focused opponent (and most new players tend to go killing focused) I'd expect both of those stones to be spent keeping Molly alive, rather then on extra cards or on offense.

I'm not saying 2 is necessarily terribly low number either.  Molly doesn't have any triggers she must have (though Debt of Gratitude is fantastic) or abilities that require a suit to work either.  Molly is also sort of blessed that she's got something to do with bad hands (discard them asap to various fading abilities, draw new hand), but having another stone or two or three around can save some of the particularly terrible hands you'll wander into from time to time.

[Robbo]

12 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Molly in general is a support master. She doesn't hit hard, so she pairs well with a crew that hits hard for her. Additionally, she has Lethe's caress which can provide some defensive power for her beaters (enemies may struggle to spam attacks), she draws tons of cards, she does useful things to supplement like marker removal and dishing out slow...

But perhaps most of all, her keyword is insanely cost efficient for scheming AND scheme denial. Crooligans in particular. So running an elite crew with her, you're adding tons of fuel to the elite crew while still bringing solid scheming and scheme denial.

McMourning as a counterexample... He is a monstrous beater, so some of his crew has to play a support role to turn on his horrifying killing power. Molly requires virtually no support to turn 'on', she does her powerful things without support (other than dead rider 'ride with me')

I started out with minion Molly which is insanely good, IMO. But I'm working on buying the models for elite Molly as she seems even better.

What would you say your minon crew looks like on average as I’m curious about it and how it plays? 

It’s good to know she’s good at both options elite and minon and that I can try different options for different games to keep my opponents guessing 

[Robbo]

11 minutes ago, Clement said:

Soul Stones tend to get used for 3 things (generally).   Cards, Offense (for suits and flips), and Defense (flips and damage prevention).  Molly often leaves all the henchmen at home, so she's going to be your main user of soul stones.  What I have discovered in my games with Molly is that she is very much a lynchpin of the crew.   I've heard her referred to as a Quarterback, and I think the comparison is appropriate.  But like comparison suggests, Molly has to be somewhat near the action, but isn't particularly well suited to getting beat on like your "lineman" models (Archie/rogue necro/dead rider).  You'll discover that when your opponent focuses before attacking, it neatly solves all three of her defensive tricks.  (Those being Lethe's caress, Serene Countenance, and Hard to Wound)

As such, if you're dealing with a killing focused opponent (and most new players tend to go killing focused) I'd expect both of those stones to be spent keeping Molly alive, rather then on extra cards or on offense.

I'm not saying 2 is necessarily terribly low number either.  Molly doesn't have any triggers she must have (though Debt of Gratitude is fantastic) or abilities that require a suit to work either.  Molly is also sort of blessed that she's got something to do with bad hands (discard them asap to various fading abilities, draw new hand), but having another stone or two or three around can save some of the particularly terrible hands you'll wander into from time to time.

Fantastic info really helpful I’ll read up more about the specific elements, abilities and ways to trigger them with molly but this is info gives me a great starting point especially knowing to treat molly as a quarter back as tactically I don’t know how to play her as yet so this does help. 

Does this means it’s wise to move the crew together keeping her wrappped for protection by the big hitters while the Crooligans do the work? 

[Reservoir Dog]

Third Floor Wars have a great Molly podcast I would recommend you listen to if you haven't already.

[Clement]

9 minutes ago, jimr0880 said:

Fantastic info really helpful I’ll read up more about the specific elements, abilities and ways to trigger them with molly but this is info gives me a great starting point especially knowing to treat molly as a quarter back as tactically I don’t know how to play her as yet so this does help. 

Does this means it’s wise to move the crew together keeping her wrappped for protection by the big hitters while the Crooligans do the work? 

The way I tend to run the crew is to have the big hitters move centrally up the table (let the rider hang back for a turn to build up tokens) while Molly tries to triangulate between them to take advantage of her Premonition ability.  The hitters go in while Molly lurks just behind throwing out Slow and Staggered on whatever opposes you.  The crooligans tend to work the flanks and prepare to warp where needed.

7 minutes ago, Reservoir Dog said:

Third Floor Wars have a great Molly podcast I would recommend you listen to if you haven't already.

They really do.   I wouldn't get too hung up on that episodes crew list choices though.  The guest that episode has a serious love affair with Manos the Risen (who is admittedly fantastic when paired with Archie) but you can certainly run/learn Molly without him.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Regarding Molly and soulstones... I often run her with 3-4, which is a small number.

Rams is super useful for removing conditions (it can remove focus, her key weakness) and crows is essential for removing (or threatening to remove) scheme markers. They are both phenomenal and worth a few stones.

For minions, it varies enormously (and is largely based on what I own). See comments in other threads about constructive criticism I have made (the ability to reactivate forgotten minions). It is core to her minion strategy, and you either want to do it with rabble risers or night terrors (I don't own the latter) IMO. Some players do it with crooligans which is less value, but easier to fit into an elite crew.

I use gravedigger + grave golem sometimes.

I use Toshiro + gravedigger for summons sometimes (not as much his aura). Careful though, he is super slow, so you want him for castle plans (like claim jump + assassinate pools). May be strictly worst than just hiring Kirai, but I don't play double masters.

1-2 rabble risers, although I'm moving away from this. It is easy to stack 4-5 focus on them turn one, so they are good little missiles you can send down the table. But they die SO fast. Still, I have done some ridiculous plays with them (and often you want an expendable shock troop, and they're good for that).

1-2 crooligans every single game for me. Basically non-negotiable (although would be different if I owned night terrors). Conceivably there'd be like a reckoning pool with no scheme markers where I wouldn't take them. 3 for plant explosives. My favourite minion in the game TBH.

Also a shout out to Philip and the Nanny. I go back and forth on the model, but I think it is way better than people say. I think at least playable in some pools (and is one of my favourite claim jump models in faction). Also LOVE Archie + Philip + three crooligans for plant explosives. It is nuts IMO.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

14 hours ago, jimr0880 said:

Great, I really like the idea of playing elite so that’s good news. So this works well for molly because she can draw the cards quicker to ensure the heavy hitters have a good chance of doing what’s required? 

The main reason it works is that Molly can reactivate her cheap minions and thus outactivate her opponent (activating heavy hitter(s) only when her opponent has nothing - or at least nothing relevant - to activate). And if you manage to win the initiative next turn, it means you get two consecutive activations of your strongest beater.

[dannydb]

Molly is great as she is quite different to other masters that she's quite focused of scheme denial. Archie, night terrors and crooligans are all great Hires. P&n, forgotten marshal and necro can be good in certain match ups and scheme pools. (rabble risers I find to fragile for my liking) 

 

I'd second listing to the molly podcast on third floor it gives a good hint of how to play. 

 

However the best you can do to learn masters is to play them. Just play molly regardless of the pools and concentrate on learning what her models can do and the combos between them rather than scoring points 

[Robbo]

This is all amazing info I didn’t expect so much advice it’s great. You lot are awesome what a great community page thanks. 

Ill soak up the info above and try to learn from my first game Friday 

[Adran]

Hello and welcome.

I'm going to start out with general malifaux stuff and then focus a little more on Molly.

Malifaux is not a typical war game. You can win the game without killing anything, and you can even win the game when you have no models left.

Its very easy to get carried away trying to kill the enemy, but if you're not careful that can cost you the game. You need to remember how you are going to score points (and how you think the opponent is going to score points).

One of the things I like the most is the ability to build your crew after you know what the game is going to be.  That said, there is potentially a lot to learn, and its often a lot easier to learn when you are using the same models over and over again to start with.

 

In general most people play at 50 ss and most crews are about 8 models. so the numbers I'm talking about below are based on that. If you're playing a smaller game the exact numbers will be wrong, but hopefully you get an idea. (Also worth noting that I'm talking in general terms. there are crews out there that don't conform to these, or break the rules in someway).

Even playing as elite as you can you are probably going to have at least 5 models and is very rare that crews go much over 10 models (a few special cases such as Hamlin and his rats normally).  So there isn't a huge difference between an elite list and a swarm list. In M3 there is slightly less incentive to play a swarm list, as one of their strengths was to allow you to out activate your opponent, and now because of the pass tokens that's not the case.

On average models have about as many wounds as they cost in terms of soulstone, so regardless of which type you play you will probably have the same number of wounds (about 60) in your crew. The swarm crew will have more actions to use, and Actions are vital to score points. Most of the point scoring actions are in the form of the interact action, and it doesn't matter if you cost 2 ss or 15 ss your interact has the same effect.

The advantages of the elite crew are 2 fold. Firstly, most malifaux models perform as well on 1 wound as they do on full wounds, so its not until you start removing models from the table that you will impact on the crews capability. Its a lot easier to remove a model with low wounds than one with high wounds, so the swarm crew will generally start to see its capabilities reduced earlier than an elite crew would. Secondly, a lot of the power in Malifaux is based on your control hand, and that is 6 cards no matter how many models are in your crew.  If you have a smaller crew you will make fewer duels across the turn, and so your ability to cheat fate is improved, and in general an attack action of an elite model will have a greater effect than an attack action of a cheap model, and so using your control hand to force the more powerful action through will net you more effect than forcing through a weak action.

 

Molly is a master that breaks some of the normal malifaux rules (which is fairly common). Her keyword makes use of a lot of card discard and card draw. This already can change the things you need to look at as you play. Whilst a lot of players will expect to have 2 good cards, 2 average cards and 2 poor cards that they can use to cheat with, Molly and her crew have a good use for those poor cards in the form of Discard, and also her crew can easily let you be drawing multiple extra cards over the turn, giving her 10-12 cards that she will be able to use to cheat with or discard. This means that playing Molly will give you a very different outlook on a control hand to most other crews.

She is not a master that does a lot of damage her self, instead she is a master that denies the opponent things. If she is your leader you opponent suffers damage if a model declares the same action twice in a turn. Lots of Models only have 1 attack action, so if they are fighting to get to attack you a second time they will hurt themselves. (Generally a better approach is to spoend an action concentrating, and use the focus conditon to have 1 good attack, but its still restricting. ). She also gives out slow from one of her attacks, restricting the things a model can do. She has the abiltiy to remove a marker from the table and draw cards. The most common marker to remove i a scheme marker, and those are normally the way people score their scheme points, so you can use this to deny them those points (Normally this means the opponent will try and pick schemes that don't need markers, which gives you extra knowledge of what your opponent is doing). She can also give your minions extra activations. This is probably what her elite list misses out on the most (and why she probably wants to bring a few good minions even when you are trying to be elite) because extra activations are good becasue it can allow you to choose when to risk models and control the engagements a little more.  And you are turning 1 master action into 2 actions else where.

 

[Butch]

I'm a beginner too. Two main things I always consider: malifaux to me is a resources managment system (= activations etc). And it's always (more than in other games) vital to play for the mission. Very often you can ignore the beaters and better stick to your schemes and score points. I still loose, and I still loose a lot of models, but nonetheless it always looks not too bad in VP.

[newsun]

I like that initial crew in general. I'd swap effigy for a crooligan then play it till you know it well. After a few games consider what am I lacking for x,y,z situation then look how you can fill it with some changes/upgrades. It's good to master one master/keyword before changing a lot up until you get how this game works.

[Robbe]

I'm new to Malifaux, too. I started with Molly and tried a bit of the Minion approach, but that doesn't fit my playstyle. I turned more towards the Elite crew. 

My standard crew now is:

Molly, Totem, Archie + Grave Spirits Touch, Rogue Necromancy, Dead Rider, Carrion Effigy + Upgrade, 2 Crooligans, 4 Stones.

Be aware that all three beaters have movement shenanigans and the crooligans can teleport to Archie and the Rogue Necromancy. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, Robbe said:

Be aware that all three beaters have movement shenanigans and the crooligans can teleport to Archie and the Rogue Necromancy. 

And they can also teleport to the Necrotic machine and Molly, which you can reposition with the dead rider! 2 crooligans is insanely good scheming power