The Undying - M3E?

[GrendelsPRGuy]

I searched the forums briefly, but I just ordered the available M3E revenant crew (because Alt Reva is badass and available during black friday).  I want to get a Wanyudo but it appears to only be available via the undying box.  Is this box going to be updated to M3E any time?

[Adran]

We currently have the planned releases schedule up to the end of January, and I can't see it there (I may have missed it). The schedule may change as things are delayed, or moved forward, but as a short answer I doubt it will be updated in the next 2 months. It may well be updated in the next 8 months, but that isn't confirmed. (It will be updated for M3, its the time line we don't know)

https://www.wyrd-games.net/upcoming-releases

is where I check what's coming. Its not always upto date, but its normally close enough for me. The other way is to sign up for the wyrd newsletters, which sometimes come with release schedules, but normally only 1 or 2 months at a time. (And they often refer to the upcoming page so its likely to be updated when they send a newsletter, its just a way to let you know if there is an update)

 

EDIT -I missed it.  I didn't click right enough during the January upcoming. It is due out in January.  Thank you theamazingMrG

[Ludvig]

35 minutes ago, GrendelsPRGuy said:

I searched the forums briefly, but I just ordered the available M3E revenant crew (because Alt Reva is badass and available during black friday).  I want to get a Wanyudo but it appears to only be available via the undying box.  Is this box going to be updated to M3E any time?

Looks to me like they're splitting that box up. Manos will be available in Yan Lo's booster pack with Toshiro and other models sharing his keyword so I'd hazard at guess at them splitting them up according to keywords and not releasing the unduying box in m3e.

[theamazingmrg]

51 minutes ago, GrendelsPRGuy said:

I searched the forums briefly, but I just ordered the available M3E revenant crew (because Alt Reva is badass and available during black friday).  I want to get a Wanyudo but it appears to only be available via the undying box.  Is this box going to be updated to M3E any time?

 

13 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Looks to me like they're splitting that box up. Manos will be available in Yan Lo's booster pack with Toshiro and other models sharing his keyword so I'd hazard at guess at them splitting them up according to keywords and not releasing the unduying box in m3e.

Check the Upcoming page.  the Wanyudo is scheduled for a January release in the Ten Thunders Karmic Debt box, along with Minako Rei and 2 Katashiro (so basically the entire 10T side of The Undying)

[GrendelsPRGuy]

Ah dang that's unfortunate.  I really just need the Wanyudo for my Reva crew.

[Griautis]

Same. It's really annoying that Wanyudo was added in with multiple other models which are useless. A lot of multi-keyword models are getting their own boxes, and I thought it's so you're not forced to buy models. Seeing a multi-faction model forces in with a bunch of models for only one faction is really disappointing. 

[farmoar]

On 12/2/2019 at 10:06 AM, GrendelsPRGuy said:

Ah dang that's unfortunate.  I really just need the Wanyudo for my Reva crew.

 

49 minutes ago, Griautis said:

Same. It's really annoying that Wanyudo was added in with multiple other models which are useless. A lot of multi-keyword models are getting their own boxes, and I thought it's so you're not forced to buy models. Seeing a multi-faction model forces in with a bunch of models for only one faction is really disappointing. 

Since Mianko Rei and the Katashiro are very popular in Ten Thunders, I don't doubt that you would be able to find someone to buy/trade the Ten Thunders models from you.

[solkan]

The Karmic Debt box is really bizarre.

Wanyudo is Revenant, Versatile.  Katashiro are Oni.  Minako Rei is Versatile, Last Blossom.

I'm really starting to wonder if there was some strange, damaged list of keywords that was getting referenced internally.

Of course, looking at the sprues in the Undying box, that's a mess:

• Sprue A:
  • Minako Rei
  • Katashiros
  • Manos
  • Mourners
• Sprue B:
  • Grave Golem (two sections)
  • Wanyudo

Does that mean Wyrd (or their production service) can move the sub-sprues around?  

[Durza]

Minako can summon both the Wanyudo and Katashiro, I'd say that's why they all come together. 

[Morgan Vening]

4 hours ago, farmoar said:

Since Mianko Rei and the Katashiro are very popular in Ten Thunders, I don't doubt that you would be able to find someone to buy/trade the Ten Thunders models from you.

Possibly.

But I'm thinking that anyone who wants Minako and Katashiro probably also want the Wanyudo too. Because it's a mostly free summon.

This isn't like the Burning Bridges box, where you might find a Sandeep player with no interest in Kaeris. And it's not even like the Warden/Executioner box where a Guild player might already own Wardens, and be willing to split a box with a Hoffman player.

A 10T player isn't going to want to split, and a Reva player isn't going to want anything but the Wanyudo. 

It's not too bad an option if a Resser player has Yan Lo, but outside that, it's problematic for non-YL Reva players.

[Griautis]

I do own Yan Lo, but I still find others useless. I'm not gonna start playing Yan Lo in TT, when all my other models, are Resser. If I'm going to a tournament, pretty much all tournaments are Faction locked. 

And you're making a great point and showing the big problem - TT players will want Wanyudo, as such they have no good reason to buy Minako and Katashiro, as that just leaves them with the same problem I had originally. 

[theamazingmrg]

41 minutes ago, Griautis said:

And you're making a great point and showing the big problem - TT players will want Wanyudo, as such they have no good reason to buy Minako and Katashiro, as that just leaves them with the same problem I had originally. 

I think you mean Resser players will want  Wanyudo and have no good reason to buy Minako and Katashiro.

 

10T players have every reason to want all the models in that box.  They only need to pay SS for Minako Rei  and the rest can be summoned, regardless of 10T Master.

 

The only Resser players it effects are those with Yan Lo and Reva.  Yan Lo can still get full use out of the box (note that isn't the same as saying Yan Lo will always get full use out of the box).  So it's only really an issue for Reva players. Disappointing, perhaps, but you have to ask the question:

"Is it worth creating another box for distributors and retailers to stock when the decision only makes things slightly awkward for one Master in one faction and doing so would mean any 10T players wanting Minako Rei would then be forced to buy two different boxes to get full use out of her?"

 

And the answer to that, as far as I'm concerned, is a resounding "No".

 

If the decision comes down to  being an issue for players of 1 and a half Masters, or an issue for 8 Masters, then it makes sense to package for the majority.

[Griautis]

15 minutes ago, theamazingmrg said:

I think you mean Resser players will want  Wanyudo and have no good reason to buy Minako and Katashiro.

 

10T players have every reason to want all the models in that box.  They only need to pay SS for Minako Rei  and the rest can be summoned, regardless of 10T Master.

 

The only Resser players it effects are those with Yan Lo and Reva.  Yan Lo can still get full use out of the box (note that isn't the same as saying Yan Lo will always get full use out of the box).  So it's only really an issue for Reva players. Disappointing, perhaps, but you have to ask the question:

"Is it worth creating another box for distributors and retailers to stock when the decision only makes things slightly awkward for one Master in one faction and doing so would mean any 10T players wanting Minako Rei would then be forced to buy two different boxes to get full use out of her?"

 

And the answer to that, as far as I'm concerned, is a resounding "No".

 

If the decision comes down to  being an issue for players of 1 and a half Masters, or an issue for 8 Masters, then it makes sense to package for the majority.

I'd be with you, except for one simple fact: Those splits are being done in all sorts of places. There's A LOT of models which are single in their box which have 2 keywords in same faction. They could have been combined in, but they weren't. It could have been done here too

[solkan]

5 hours ago, Griautis said:

I'd be with you, except for one simple fact: Those splits are being done in all sorts of places. There's A LOT of models which are single in their box which have 2 keywords in same faction. They could have been combined in, but they weren't. It could have been done here too

I think Durza has the reasonable explanation:  The box, in spite of what's it's labeled as, is the "The Minako Rei crew box".  🤯  It's Minako Rei (a henchman, and a valid leader choice now), the Wanyu for the Karmic Fate upgrade, and the Katashiro that Mianko can summon.

It is an improvement on the 'How many people are forced to buy models they don't want?' metric compared to the M2E story encounter box.  

[theamazingmrg]

21 hours ago, Griautis said:

I'd be with you, except for one simple fact: Those splits are being done in all sorts of places. There's A LOT of models which are single in their box which have 2 keywords in same faction. They could have been combined in, but they weren't. It could have been done here too

The difference with Karmic Debt is that the box contains everything you need to run Minako Rei as a Versatile option.  she can summon a grand total of two things: Wanyudo and Katashiro.  and conveniently they are both in the box with her.  That's why Wanyudo isn't separate.

[Ogid]

22 hours ago, theamazingmrg said:

"Is it worth creating another box for distributors and retailers to stock when the decision only makes things slightly awkward for one Master in one faction and doing so would mean any 10T players wanting Minako Rei would then be forced to buy two different boxes to get full use out of her?"

 

And the answer to that, as far as I'm concerned, is a resounding "No".

I wholeheartedly disagree with this one. Models able to be played in more than 1 Faction should be sold separatelly imo. To keep the box count the same some other models could be sold in bigger boxes.

For example in TT case:

• Archers + Lotus eater: Monk (2) + Last Blossom (1) 
• or
• Warders + Kunoichi: Qi and Gong (2) + Monk (1)

The above could force players to get models of their faction for master they don't play, but that are still OOK options. Much better than forcing a player to get models from outside of the faction with no use for the game unless they start collecting other factions.

[Adran]

22 hours ago, Griautis said:

I'd be with you, except for one simple fact: Those splits are being done in all sorts of places. There's A LOT of models which are single in their box which have 2 keywords in same faction. They could have been combined in, but they weren't. It could have been done here too

I don't claim to fully know the costs involved, so this is largely based on previous experience. The old crew boxes in first edition were purchaseable individually as well as as a crew. The Boxes typically were cheaper by about 1 figure. 

This was a while ago and based off a different material, so those details may not hold true, but the chances are that it still works out at a slight discount to buy groups of models than it does to buy those models individually. So it is possible that seperating the weyundo here would have cost those TT players more in buying 2 boxes rather than the 1. And you can pretty much guarantee that every person that bought Minako Rei would want to buy the Wayundo.

[farmoar]

On 12/4/2019 at 6:06 AM, theamazingmrg said:

"Is it worth creating another box for distributors and retailers to stock when the decision only makes things slightly awkward for one Master in one faction and doing so would mean any 10T players wanting Minako Rei would then be forced to buy two different boxes to get full use out of her?"

 

And the answer to that, as far as I'm concerned, is a resounding "No".

 

If the decision comes down to  being an issue for players of 1 and a half Masters, or an issue for 8 Masters, then it makes sense to package for the majority.

I think this is the way it needs to be. Are you going to please EVERYONE? No. But you can at least negatively affect the smallest amount of players this way.

Ultimately, it always seems to be the vocal minority. For every TT player that is super happy about now being able to field this previously-hard-to-find henchman (and doesn't say anything about it), there will be 5 players screaming out for injustice because they can't play 1 not-so-playable model, with 1 underpowered master.

[Ogid]

On 12/18/2019 at 11:48 PM, farmoar said:

I think this is the way it needs to be. Are you going to please EVERYONE? No. But you can at least negatively affect the smallest amount of players this way.

How is making players picking models outside of a faction going to affect less players than rearrange boxes so in average there is no increase in costs and no player have to buy models outside of a faction?

[solkan]

4 hours ago, Ogid said:

How is making players picking models outside of a faction going to affect less players than rearrange boxes so in average there is no increase in costs and no player have to buy models outside of a faction?

Why does the opinion of a player who wants a single model out of a box due to faction choice reasons matter more than a player who wants a single model out of a box for other reasons?

During M2E, the running line was that every single multiple-faction model was part of a plot which operated on the following steps:

• Player starts with Faction A
• Player slowly buys models that belong to both Faction A and Factions B, C, and D
• One day, the player wakes up and realizes that they have crews belonging to more than faction.

Obviously, with the huge reduction in multiple-faction models, that focus of that plot has switched to keywords.

I mean, seriously.  If Wyrd was prioritizing players being able to minimize the number of models that they needed to purchase to play the game over every other concern, why would they have a box of seven models, each one belonging to a different faction?  Instead, they appear to be prioritizing thematic boxes.

And it's also more likely that the currently separate boxes are a temporary aberration, and that those models are eventually going to get consolidated into bigger boxes, because SKU-space pressure doesn't go away if reduce SKU-count and then release new models.

Appendix:

• All of the Emissary and Effigy models were packaged together.  Cross faction keyword:  Puppet.
• Crossroads Seven box
• Johan Creedy (Infamous) in the Outcast Versatile box "A Hard Day's Work".  "But I want to play Zipp as Bayou..."
• Karmic Debt (Affectionately referred to as the "Minako Rei crew box, containing Wanyudo for Reva).
• Surgical Staff box (Guild Autopsies are 'Experimental, Zombie.'  See Asura Roten and the Necromantic Font ability.  And Nurses are 'Asylum, Experimental')
• Crime and Punishment (Wardens and Executioners.  Wardens are Augmented, Executioners aren't)
• Zipp's Crew Box (The First Mate is a Bayou Swampfiend henchman)

 Note that the first bullet point is seven offenses, as is Crossroads seven, so this list should be at least twice as long.  And I don't think that's going to be the end of that list.

Disclaimer:  I got into some water five years ago, I think they turned on the heat.  How hot's the water gotten?

[Ogid]

18 hours ago, solkan said:

Why does the opinion of a player who wants a single model out of a box due to faction choice reasons matter more than a player who wants a single model out of a box for other reasons?

Different folks different opinions I guess, in my case I'm here for the game first and for the models second; so having to pick models outside of the faction is like in W4K having to pick a marine squad to get a Chaos Demon (using a popular game as example); akward if you don't play both armies. But picking a box containing other models inside of your "army" is more reasonable. Someone who is more a painter and collector maybe wouldn't mind so much. 

In this game there are much more crossfaction models than in others and having lots of SKUs is both more cumbersome for shops and more expensive for costumers, so it's understandable some compromises have to be made tho.

I don't 100% like the CR7 box as it is; but it's a reasonable compromise, that box by itself is a playable crew. It sucks if you only want the CR7 of your faction, but at least you have the oportunity to play CR7 in your faction (and also find players to split that box is easier).