Moleman 3e question

[zhodanicommando]

Newbie here, on the Moleman card one of his abilities is “Df (mask) Burrow: Enemy Only. After resolving, bury this model”.

What exactly does this mean? 

[Durza]

That's a resistance trigger, you can declare it if you have a mask in your final duel total when defending with your Df. The Moleman has a mask built into his Df stat, so he can nearly always declare it. Also the timing says after resolving, so long as you declare the trigger if an enemy attacks you you bury, whether it hits or not.

The rules for bury are on page 69 of the rulebook. the tl;dr is you take the model off the board, they still count as in play and can activate, but can't declare actions unless they have rules saying otherwise, and may only unbury with an unbury effect.

[Clifford Lovegrove]

Correction page 49

[zhodanicommando]

Thanks so much for answers. Jumped on board the Malifaux train before Adepticon this year and started learning 2e, but put them down and waited for 3e. Love new cards, but gotta shake off what little I gained from 2e cards outta my head.

Cheers

[Durza]

8 hours ago, Clifford Lovegrove said:

Correction page 49

Page 49 of my rulebook is the start of the rules for the table. Actual rules for Bury is on page 69. The PDF in the app has the bury rules on page 33, where are you getting page 49 from?

[Sharp_GT]

I'll just dog pile onto this thread to ask what kind of mileage other marcus players are getting out of the molemen? I'm getting into marcus on the neverborn side, and they compete with some excellent options, but dont want to miss the boat if they're really good in keyword

[Ludvig]

I haven't really been able to make them work. Just get a soulstone miner for your Scheming needs. A hoarcat can also be ok if you expect ranged crews and want to stay in character by hiring beasts. 

[Nikodemus]

I've used one. Keep 'em back, flip Turf Markers on my side of the table, litter the area with scheme markers so they can teleport to do some counter scheming. Cheap activation doing some boring but necessary Interacts. But they often get dropped for seemingly better options in the 6 or less ss range.

I haven't looked over NB selection but I can easily believe you've got better options. It isn't useless but... let's say the claim that Chimera are a tad overpriced/underperforming before adding Mutations may certainly apply with Molemen. As is on the base card they're a bit too fragile for my taste.

[CD1248]

I generally don't like them. There are better Versatile things in the price range, and putting mutations on them seems like a waste over other more impactful chimera.

[Mycellanious]

I cant imagine a use for them. They never get to use their def trigger because they die in a hit, and its not worth it to put upgrades on them because you cant get them off. Furthermore Chimera crews tend to prefer to be elite because of the rarity of upgrades and because Marcus doesnt have the AP to put upgrades on every model. The trigger is cool, but w/o adaptive evolution they cant guarantee the suit and its a stat 4 attack so im not gonna cheat for it...

Rn I honestly prefer 4 stones over a moleman. 

[Ogid]

Not a big fan of this model however I've not played it tho and I've heard players who say that they work for them... give it a whirl. I guess its gimmick is the mobility they get out of the schemes and that they may bury if they are not one shoted.

For 4SS in NVB I personaly like Wisp a lot more. it has more utility (lure and the aura), with camouflage aren't that easy to kill, the attack has also low stat but at least 2 range and crippling effects, can double scheme and once in every blue moon may evolve into an Adze.

[Sharp_GT]

2 hours ago, Ogid said:

For 4SS in NVB I personaly like Wisp a lot more. it has more utility (lure and the aura), with camouflage aren't that easy to kill, the attack has also low stat but at least 2 range and crippling effects, can double scheme and once in every blue moon may evolve into an Adze.

that's exctly what I was thinking, and actually, my limited experience with them in marcus they are even better than you think: camouflage means you cant shoot them from range or charge them, already amazing and will eat extra AP. On top of that shimmering light means if they walk attack, they're at a [-] for that flip right away! And don't forget about ambush to get extra mobility and free disengage! Very versitile support or scheme model

Ok, I'm glad my suspiscions have been confirmed on the molemen, I will continue to not own the models unless something changes.

[Ogid]

IDK, maybe proxy them a few games; as I said I have no experience with them, they could have some uses...

About wisps, take in count ambush cannot be used to disengage; but they are still great beasts tho. A cool trick is using the pushs of other models attacking to trigger the aura (Rougarou, Cojo, even Bandersnatch); plus the aura and the range 2 may be a nasty landing zone for a 1'' model tossed by Cojo that cannot retaliate (the grooslang is another super nasty landing zone with his range 2 wicked slowing attack). Also their own lure will trigger the Aura, the tricky part is positioning them in a way the model doesn't ends engaging the Wisp but the Wisp engage them and still trigger the aura (Ambush is useful for that).

[KingCrow]

Sounds like Marcus has another dead model that will rarely be used like the Initiates. I've been trying to figure out the best way to make them work (in Arcanists) myself but have no idea other than inflicting damage with their attack on a friendly and get the Rake The Eyes trigger but then you're risking high cards to know what the next few cards might be.  To make them more useful and individualistic, I almost wish they had more actions/synergy with bury such as they should be able to bury themselves (with tight restrictions) with the option to unbury in base contact with any (scheme?) marker.  Four stones is a cheap cost of a model and they shouldn't be overpowered but I'm pretty sure Tara has some 4 cost models that are way better than these Molemen. 

[AskM3L8r]

I've ran with molemen a few times with Marcus and Myranda.  I personally ran two Molmen,  Cojo, Myranda (ss cache) arcane effigy (effigy of fate)

I used Cojo throw Myranda and one mole man 10" and had scheme markers dropped 10 inches apart.  Myranda can help give some protection with positive flip and heals. 

They are a fun model if you want them. I'd like to give them with Colette and Union Miners.  To REALLY work the scheme markers and wack a moleman game. 

[Mycellanious]

23 minutes ago, AskM3L8r said:

I've ran with molemen a few times with Marcus and Myranda.  I personally ran two Molmen,  Cojo, Myranda (ss cache) arcane effigy (effigy of fate)

I used Cojo throw Myranda and one mole man 10" and had scheme markers dropped 10 inches apart.  Myranda can help give some protection with positive flip and heals. 

They are a fun model if you want them. I'd like to give them with Colette and Union Miners.  To REALLY work the scheme markers and wack a moleman game. 

But like, what do they do once they teleport there?

[AskM3L8r]

At the time I had them running bombs for Plant explosives. They can be useful for schemes. If the set up isn't painful. 

Were the performers drop markers with everything or union miner's false claims. 

I like where it's going but feels like the molemen are missing something. I plan to play more with them. If I come up with ideas for them, I'll post them.

[Cursed25]

On 12/4/2019 at 4:57 PM, Sharp_GT said:

camouflage means you cant shoot them from range or charge them,

camouflage does not prevent charging!  In 3e Charge changed a lot and does not require a target now! Charge now is 1 AP that allow you to push in the direction you want and then if you want to make a attack at someone in range!

[Mycellanious]

3 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

camouflage does not prevent charging!  In 3e Charge changed a lot and does not require a target now! Charge now is 1 AP that allow you to push in the direction you want and then if you want to make a attack at someone in range!

Aye, but Natural Camoflage also gives the Disguised ability: This model cannot be the target of actions generated by thr Charge Actions. 

So you can do the push and punch someone else but not the guy with the Upgrade

[AskM3L8r]

Anyone think the armor plates upgrade would help them enough?

Any other trick theories?. I've also considered feathered wings. I'd prefer to not getting hit as opposed to " after resolving an attack " 🤣

[Mycellanious]

1 minute ago, AskM3L8r said:

Anyone think the armor plates upgrade would help them enough?

Any other trick theories?. I've also considered feathered wings. I'd prefer to not getting hit as opposed to " after resolving an attack " 🤣

I dont think the Molemen are likely to use Butterfly Jump, since if they live they are probably going to Bury themselves instead.

Armored Plating is ok because the Armor makes it a bit harder to be one shot, but the Hunker Down would hardly ever go off because Places are moves. So if you want to use the Moleman's bonus action or their unbury (which is why you supposedly bring them right?) half the upgrade is wasted. I also dont think I want to waste one of Marcus' or Myranda's Actions telling the Moleman to move. Not to mention that A) AP is a very strong upgrade and once its on the Moleman you cant get it off and B) Armor is more valuable on high HP targets because it doesnt reduce to 0, more hp=more times you get hit=more opportunities for armor to reduce dmg. 

I dont think you preemptively slap down AP unless you know a model is a target, your opponent is trying to Alpha Strike, or I have a specific plan (hey Rattler go let that guy punch you for 3 turns). I usually wait for my opponent to lock down a model is combat then suddenly make it extremely tanky. Just dont make the mistake I did: when Myranda and Vogel Replace, the new model is PLACED which means it counts as a move 😕

[Ogid]

Agree, it's a df4 4Wds model, even with Armor+1 it's easy to one shot with any half decent beater and both Armor and Wings are better in other models. Camouflage is the only one that may keep it alive or make the other player waste a few actions with a decent model chasing him down (which is also good)