Tools of the Trade: Von Schill Discussion

[Zebo]

41 minutes ago, Redjackal said:

only 2 of each attached to my crew?

This.

[Redjackal]

Another thing, Diving charge says that SChill ignore Terrain, this meant he can chare trough a house?

[Jesy Blue]

Over, through.... however you want to describe it in your own cinematic as he six million dollar man leaps into combat, yes.

[Zebo]

But he cannot climb on top of the house during his charge. Weird, but that's how rules works.

[Cuilion]

Wyrd, not weird.

[Cuilion]

@psychogeek I think you forgot Assassinate in your initial post. 

[psychogeek]

On 12/9/2019 at 3:49 AM, Cuilion said:

@psychogeek I think you forgot Assassinate in your initial post. 

I will edit in a bit

[clockworkspide]

Quick question:  which Neverborn master do you least want to see across the table with a theme-heavy Freikorps crew?

[Ajatros]

On 12/4/2019 at 10:51 PM, Redjackal said:

Can you enligth me on upgrades,i can use each only 2 times a game or can i have only 2 of each attached to my crew?

Plentiful(X) on upgrades means that you can possess X number of said upgrade at a time. Two each in the case of equipment upgrades.

[Jesy Blue]

9 hours ago, clockworkspide said:

Quick question:  which Neverborn master do you least want to see across the table with a theme-heavy Freikorps crew?

Probably Swampfiend.... stealth vs our majority shooting is gonna be the issue.  Yeah, we have a lot of shockwave, but we don't only have shockwaves.

[psychogeek]

21 hours ago, clockworkspide said:

Quick question:  which Neverborn master do you least want to see across the table with a theme-heavy Freikorps crew?

Actually i have found that halfblood gives more problems than any other neverborn I have faced. They are immune to blasts and have some decent tech. Swamp fiend just makes you play differently. It hasn’t been a big deal and Laz becomes super valuable 

[Zebo]

Just realized that there's a new crew with the old Freikorps Suit and now I'm pissed. 

[Zeus]

Agreed on the freikorps suit & also the 6” +1 WP from Von  Schill, why these were taken off I’ve no idea? VS is hardly OP compared with other faction keywords in M3e & these were totally within keyword theme.

[MrPieChee]

With all the card discard, would wanted criminal or solder for hire upgrades be a good choice? (I know the OP has said not, but is this the consensus amongst others?)

Which models do you think would do well with them?

[Zebo]

Freikorps don't have any form to force the enemy to drop scheme markers, so Wanted Criminal is a nonsense to them (in fact, is a trash Upgrade, but Bandits can make good use of it) unless you play a dumb opponent that chooses to drop scheme markers near you. 

Soldier for Hire requires a killy minion to draw cards, and while almost each Freikorps minion can be killy, the obvious choice would be the Drachen Trooper, but be aware because it's really easy to put fire on the enemy and let it kill them, but then you would not draw any card. 

[ClanAzule]

Great summary!!  I am also a VS player and your crew looks pretty much like mine usually does in an all takers list.  

 

Things that you didn't mention to watch out for when playing against is any crew that ignores defensive tech like armor or shields.  Also they sometimes struggle against mirror image crews that also rely on strong armor, shields and healing. 

 

I love how a VS crew can adapt, I got destroyed by a Pandora crew when 3e first came out and came back at them with a crew built around Laz, Arik, Hans and a few Freikorpsmen and easily won.  

Again pretty spot on analysis of my favorite master.

[RisingPhoenix]

On 12/17/2019 at 10:51 PM, clockworkspide said:

Quick question:  which Neverborn master do you least want to see across the table with a theme-heavy Freikorps crew?

Undeniably Dreamer.  I'm not sure I really like Friekorps as a crew, but if there's one thing virtually everyone agrees on, it's that they like to bubble and play defensive.  Dreamer can just sit there and improve his deck and summon more shit.  You have to go be proactive to make him respond, and his response is goddamn scary.  If you just leave Dreamer be, you'll be fighting someone with more Severes than Weaks in their deck and 60 soulstones worth of models in short order.  

[Jesy Blue]

39 minutes ago, RisingPhoenix said:

Undeniably Dreamer.  I'm not sure I really like Friekorps as a crew, but if there's one thing virtually everyone agrees on, it's that they like to bubble and play defensive.  Dreamer can just sit there and improve his deck and summon more shit.  You have to go be proactive to make him respond, and his response is goddamn scary.  If you just leave Dreamer be, you'll be fighting someone with more Severes than Weaks in their deck and 60 soulstones worth of models in short order.  

I have no problem with Dreamer vs Freikorps because of Arik.  None of those summons ever show up in my bubble.

[RisingPhoenix]

7 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

I have no problem with Dreamer vs Freikorps because of Arik.  None of those summons ever show up in my bubble.

Then your opponent doesn't understand Gravity Well very well, because it's not hard to summon inside Arik's 6" bubble.  And good luck to your scheme runners, they live an interesting and short life.

I find Gravity Well is a great counter to summoning while building lists, but on a tabletop it does far less than you might think.

[Jesy Blue]

I really don't take Freikorps for schemey games as I have Zipp & Vik's.... so works pretty well for me, thanks.

[RisingPhoenix]

Even if you can play the entire game within 6" of Arik, it's not your models that have to be within 6" and line of sight of Arik, it's the terrain itself.  That means Arik has to have line of sight to every place you could put could possibly put a Sz 2 30 mm model (every one of Dreamer's summons is Sz 1 or 2, 30 mm).  Your own models block line of sight, as anyone who has played a bubble crew knows.  So "the other side of Hannah" is a perfectly valid spot to place a model, no matter how close to Arik she is, because Arik can't see around her.  

As I said, Arik sounds good on paper, but in real life terrain and model placement it's not some showstopper. It's just an annoyance.  Dreamer can be far more than "annoying".

It probably works against bad players, or people who you don't explain the rules of Gravity Well to.  If you just say "you can't place within 6 inches of Arik" then yeah, that'd be a showstopper.  But that's not the ability at all.  If a Neverborn player is looking to beat Friekorps, Dreamer is a solid choice.  

(also 3 of the 4 strategies require movement, do you plan to play Friekorps exclusively in to Public Enemies?)

[Adran]

On 4/30/2020 at 12:37 AM, RisingPhoenix said:

Then your opponent doesn't understand Gravity Well very well, because it's not hard to summon inside Arik's 6" bubble.  And good luck to your scheme runners, they live an interesting and short life.

I find Gravity Well is a great counter to summoning while building lists, but on a tabletop it does far less than you might think.

Arik being 40 mm means that as a general rule he can see every part of the bubble ( except just behind Hannah or Lazarus). You can create summon spaces, but then you're playing into his game. ( generally by having to move your model into his area and live. ).

It is also terrain dependent, but I'm assuming the von schill player doesn't make a mistake.  Since they largely control where arik is and where there models are it's up to them if you're going to be able to unbury. 

[RisingPhoenix]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

Arik being 40 mm means that as a general rule he can see every part of the bubble ( except just behind Hannah or Lazarus). You can create summon spaces, but then you're playing into his game. ( generally by having to move your model into his area and live. ).

It is also terrain dependent, but I'm assuming the von schill player doesn't make a mistake.  Since they largely control where arik is and where there models are it's up to them if you're going to be able to unbury. 

Um... what?  No, they don't necessarily control where their models are against Dreamer.  Dreamer can take Doppleganger with a stat 7 lure - and can place AFTER the lure movement.  Dreamer brings Serena Bowman (unless they're dumb) who has a trigger to drop your model within 6" - which is going to be outside the bubble.  That also counts as failing a willpower duel when she picks Willpower.  Insidious Madness can move you, that's a Tactical action.  Hinematsu comes with a stat 6 Lure.  Teddy has a Terrorize attack, vs Willpower (and yes, can place a summon after you're moved as a result of failing).  

You can stop some tricks, like a surprise Chompy Bits, but you're playing some real crap Dreamer players if they can't get their summons out.  And Dreamer is simply a higher quality crew than VS.  Especially VS who is trying to all bunch in a 6" bubble in some completely clear area of the board evenly spaced so Arik can see everything.  I mean what points are you even planning on scoring?

[Jesy Blue]

49 minutes ago, RisingPhoenix said:

(also 3 of the 4 strategies require movement, do you plan to play Friekorps exclusively in to Public Enemies?)

I haven't gotten a lot of play in Season 1 yet (can't play Vassel on my tablet), but the three times I played it 1 was Freikorps and 2 was Hamelin, and Hamelin was a much better choice in Public Enemies.  I'm actually having trouble finding my Freikorps niche in Season 1, even though I just got my Alt Hannah and I'm desperate to use her!

CLL is so ungodly easy with Viktorias, and just easy with Zipp; Symbols is ungodly easy with Zipp and just easy with Viktorias; as I said before Hamelin is stupid good in Public Enemies; however I have yet to play a game of Recover Evidence so I don't know yet.  I also just got an actual Parker box, so now everything is gonna be fighting for a spot to be played....

[RisingPhoenix]

I'm not going to argue, I think there's no good GG1 strats for VS.  I actually lean towards the crew needing some buffs.

Didn't really attempt to address that, was just pointing out that Dreamer is a nightmare for VS to help out curious Neverborn players.  Somehow we ended up in a magical christmas land where we play Malifaux inside 6" perfectly spaced bubbles, a crew without a single Laugh Off model is never repositioned by Neverborn, and we don't need scheme runners.  

Apparently this land is where all the VS players live so I hope it's a fun place to play Malifaux.  Or whatever it is they're doing.