Demise (hungry rats)

[whysoidle]

Guys, I have a question about rule Demise (hungry rats) in Hamelin's crew, basically, I may summon 2 rats if model was killed by enemy?

There are 2 conditions in ability

1. Model was killed?

2. Model was killed by enemy?

There are no "instead", or something like that, I just have to use it step by step?

[solkan]

33 minutes ago, whysoidle said:

Guys, I have a question about rule Demise (hungry rats) in Hamelin's crew, basically, I may summon 2 rats if model was killed by enemy?

There are 2 conditions in ability

1. Model was killed?

2. Model was killed by enemy?

There are no "instead", or something like that, I just have to use it step by step?

That Demise effect does nothing which prevents the model being killed, or change the fact that it was killed.  If you're looking at the Damaging Timing, that's a Step 6 Part C effect.

It's the same situation as the various Demise abilities on the Gamin where they drop a marker or emit a pulse after being killed.

To make sure you're getting an answer to your first question, there's no "instead" anywhere in that Demise ability, so:

• Sentence one:  No matter who or what kills the model, summon a Malifaux Rat into base contact with it in Step 6 Part C.
• Sentence two:  Sequentially after that, if it was killed by an enemy model, summon (a second) Malifaux Rat into base contact with the enemy model and give that enemy model a Blight Token.

So the result will be one or two Malifaux Rats being summoned, in that order, depending on what happened.

The fact that sentence two doesn't say "another" or "a second" or something else doesn't change the result.

 

[Adran]

6 minutes ago, whysoidle said:

Hmm, thanks

Also, how can I proof that it's 2 separate sentences? And why that it doesn't say "another" doesn't change the fact?

Well the full stop does a good job proving it's 2 sentences.  Basic reading would give you that it's possible to summon2 rats since nothing links them together. So I would say the burden is on someone to try and prove its not 2 rats. 

 

[solkan]

6 minutes ago, whysoidle said:

Hmm, thanks

Also, how can I proof that it's 2 separate sentences? And why that it doesn't say "another" doesn't change the fact?

Let me rephrase that.  It's very common in the game to see an effect phrased as

Quote

Timing specifier, some description of the effect.  Description of the effect continues.

As far as why it doesn't need "another", that's the way the authors chose to write things.

For instance, Rasputina's Ice Pillars action:

Quote

Create a Ht 4, Blocking, Destructible, Impassible Ice Pillar Marker anywhere within range.

and right below it, the Frozen Domain trigger:

Quote

Frozen Domain:  When resolving, Create an ice Pillar Marker anywhere within range.

Note the conspicuous absence of the word "another" in that trigger.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

As a concrete example of something where it has to work this way (you do the effect twice), see Zoraida:

Obey: take an action with the controlled model

Ensorcel trigger: take an action with the controlled model.

If listing the effect twice didn't make it happen twice, Zoraida's ensorcel trigger would do nothing (you're already taking an action with the controlled model). I had the same sense of confusion when I first read her card ("i'm already taking an action, why is it repeating itself?") If text is repeated, I do it twice.

[whysoidle]

19 minutes ago, solkan said:

That Demise effect does nothing which prevents the model being killed, or change the fact that it was killed.  If you're looking at the Damaging Timing, that's a Step 6 Part C effect.

It's the same situation as the various Demise abilities on the Gamin where they drop a marker or emit a pulse after being killed.

To make sure you're getting an answer to your first question, there's no "instead" anywhere in that Demise ability, so:

• Sentence one:  No matter who or what kills the model, summon a Malifaux Rat into base contact with it in Step 6 Part C.
• Sentence two:  Sequentially after that, if it was killed by an enemy model, summon (a second) Malifaux Rat into base contact with the enemy model and give that enemy model a Blight Token.

So the result will be one or two Malifaux Rats being summoned, in that order, depending on what happened.

The fact that sentence two doesn't say "another" or "a second" or something else doesn't change the result.

 

Hmm, thanks

Also, how can I proof that it's 2 separate sentences? And why that it doesn't say "another" doesn't change the fact?

Edited November 21, 2019 by whysoidle

[whysoidle]

Thanks to all of you!