Popping Poison Pills - Stacking poison on Mcmourning?

[Maniacal_cackle]

McMourning and his Experimental crew are infamous for the poison they throw around, including on themselves. So I thought it worth diving down into one particular aspect of the crew: poisoning themselves!

I thought we'd dive down into any insights people might have on...

• How much poison is needed, both on turn 1 and later on?
• What's the best way(s) to stack poison turn 1?
• What's the best way to top up poison throughout the game?
• What models do you prioritise having poison on?

I've just ordered my crew, so can't give too many insights yet. So I'll just contribute a basic analysis of the relevant models and abilities:

Canine Remains: Irrelevant.

Dr McMourning: Gives the crew 2 poison at the start, and can rancid transplant it around. However, it is probably not worth using up master actions just to move poison around your own crew. Rather, stacking poison on your own crew charges them up to have it transferred to enemies. Highest (?) priority for poison stacks.

Chihuahua: Generates poison in a pulse, and then attacks two models turn one for a bit of poisoning?

Flesh Construct: It can hit your allies with projectile vomit splash when attacking enemies, but that comes with a distracted. Not worth it most of the time. Can't blast marker your own models, so useless turn one. Medium priority target for getting poison stacks on it?

Guild Autopsy: Inefficient for poison stacking?

Kentauroi: Inefficient for generating poison, high priority target for receiving poison stacks.

Little Gasser: One of the best. Horrific odor and pull my finger can splash out three poison at the start of the game. Seems like a critical model to have one of if you intend to get more than 3-4 poison on your models.

Nurse: Can melee to hand out poison, then heal it back up with poisoned pills. Easily 3 poison out to a single model on turn 1.

Rafkin: Open vials gives a bit of poison at the start of turn one before spreading out. Can do a bit extra with embalming fluids, but is a bit inefficient as it is an 8 stone model and may have better things to do (though focus is good). Shockwave is largely useless for first turn poisoning (since you can't relent)? Can transfer poison between models, potentially useful if you're wanting to pull poison off say a chihuahua onto an important model. High priority for poison stacks

Rogue Necromancy: Generates its own poison, which is very useful. Relieves pressures to stack poison. You generally want to be ambushing every turn anyway, so the cost of a card isn't as painful.

Sebastian: Mainly his shockwave, which again, seems like a waste early on. Incidental splash is great, but using an 8 stone model action to poison your own crew when they can't relent and guarantee it seems pretty inefficient. High priority for poison stacks.

I'd be keen to hear about everyone's thoughts! For me so far it is just reading the cards and playing against McMourning, but I'll hopefully have my models on the table within a few weeks.

In my first game, I'm going to likely be aiming for getting poison on Sebastian, McMourning, and one Flesh Construct (playing core box + Dead Rider + Archie) as priority targets. I'll likely only aim for 3-5 poison for them to start, to see if that is enough.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Another question I'd be interested in is if people split into poisoning 'teams' for better board coverage on deployment, or if you stick all your models needing poison close enough to benefit from the same pulses?

[Ludvig]

Go hard into the enemy crew and use shockwaves from Rafkin/Sebastian into the clump? Could poison your own, could draw out cards or poison enemies. A savvy opponent will focus on a single model at a time so there might not always be time to heal off poison anyway. 

[newsun]

In my limited doc experience, poison is nice to have and not something I work towards.

[Yore Huckleberry]

Non-incidental poison seems like a trap in this build to me. I don't play rezzers, but I'm sort of perfectly happy to watch half a crew use its round one AP tossing poison around for end-of-round regen that can be avoided by focusing down a single model. The amount of AP you wind up sinking in that can be pulled off with a single "end a condition on the target" AP is pretty rough. Even if they can't clear it, how many actions a turn do you dedicate to creeping up that end-of-turn regen?

(On top of that, I run Lady Justice, so being able to hit a 4" cleansing pulse on a 6 or better to remove the work of all that AP feels like very potent efficiency, particularly on a model that can take 4-5 meaningful actions per activation anyway.)

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

I agree, super poison stacking seems pointless. However, spending a few stones on say a gasser is going to put you up to five stacks.

This ensures your nurses can obey your models and Doc can rancid transplant poison onto enemies. Transferring three poison with Rancid then blood poisoning for five seems pretty decent.

[SoulGambit]

Rafkin can drop +4 Poison on your Crew t1 with a single AP. Poison on McM's own crew is effectively regeneration, plus Blood Poisoning threat, plus Blood Poisoning healing. Heal 5 on experimental crew member, who happens to have a lot of wounds, is no joke.

Regeneration wise, you heal 1 at Poison 1-3, 2 at Poison 4-6, 3 at Poison 7-9, etc. Catalyst improves this by +1. The big breakoff points are Poison 1, 3, 4, 5 and "more." 1 gets you Regen, 3 lets you threaten a rancid transplant + Blood Poisoning and lets Nurses Obey you. 4 lets you regen 2. 5 is the max for Blood Transfusion to heal you.

Rafkin can pretty easily get you all the poison you could need so long as you get a Mask in your hand t1, using only 1ap. Other than that the only real poison building I use is Nurses. Charging things instead of walking is used so long as it won't slow my crew down and so long as I'm confident the damage will be regenerated.

For poisoning the opponents: My advice is to go wide, not tall, unless you are executing them with Blood Poison. Condition removal tends to be single target, and going wide keeps them from keeping up.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

@SoulGambit how are you stacking that much with Rafkin? Mask trigger is for flask, but you can't relent against shockwaves? Are you cheating fate with each model?

[SoulGambit]

5 on everything is glib. You won't get everything, but you'll get enough. Cheating down is valid on important models if you don't have another use for the cards / the opponent isn't applying much card pressure.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Is Rafkin a must hire for you then? Or only in some matchups?

[SoulGambit]

There are matchups where you don't want to play the poison game. Like if you are playing vs Brewmaster, don't. Just don't.

However, if I am playing the poison condition game, I am bringing in Rafkin... isn't an auto include  but it is darn close.

An important thing to consider is that the enemy bringing condition removal is usually a win for you, but you need to pressure multiple models. Flask of Formaldehyde accomplishes that at a pretty decent range. Transfusion is also pretty great at setting up Blood Poisoning.

Rafkin is, unfortunately, glass and needs to be near a nurse at minimum to survive via bedside mannor. Rafkin and Sebastian are also a bit at odds since you will usually want to dump one of them. I preffer Rafkin over Sebastian, but aknowledge Sebastian as a valid choice.

[Rob Lo]

Between McM, some other incidental models, Rafkin or Seb, plus two nurses obeying them to drop even more shockwaves on turn 1,  I've been able to get 14-21 poison on whatever models I want to stand close together at the start of the turn. Susceptible to early blasts, takes a ridiculous amount of card flips that takes a fair bit of time and tracking, is hilarious, gives a ridiculous end of turn heal and causes your opponent to focus on one model at a time and kill it completely. Kentauroi help move the models forward a bit after all the standing around. You get distract on the obeyed model, but shockwaves don't care and you can deal with it.

Whether it's worthwhile or not is up to your playstyle, I suppose. Experimental is the crew where I wish I liked the playstyle more than I do, so I can't really speak to effectiveness. 

[SoulGambit]

Huh. Nurses Obeying for Shockwaves is not something that had occured to me. Thanks!

[Michael Curran]

Explain this nurse ‘obey’ strategy a little more clearer please fellas.

 

[Wyamphri]

A small favor trigger off of Seduction is an obey if the target has +3 or more poison, so you get 1 poison on rafkin and sebastian to be able to obey them. Which is easy since they both have flask of poison , which pulses out +2 poison, and rafkin has a trigger on his that let's him take the action again. So, having two nurses obey them to do it more is alot of poison 😛