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Taking Totems?


Yore Huckleberry

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Do you HAVE to take a totem? I’m honestly considering whether Perdita would get more out of her Hero’s Gamble card draw differential and a pass token than the nephilim adds. It’s insignificant and gives a nice push round one, but the crew doesn’t hurt for movement and sort of wants to outrange the opponent anyway.

Has anyone tried this?

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1 hour ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

Do you HAVE to take a totem? I’m honestly considering whether Perdita would get more out of her Hero’s Gamble card draw differential and a pass token than the nephilim adds. It’s insignificant and gives a nice push round one, but the crew doesn’t hurt for movement and sort of wants to outrange the opponent anyway.

Has anyone tried this?

That's weird enough I want to try it.

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He can be used to obey your own for a damage and a mask and an eight😁

Jokes aside, enslaved is among the worst totems in the game. 

The uses I've found for him are:

Push with his quick action.

Ensuring that I can still get value out of the family values trigger if I send a member off alone. Nephilim is still a familiy model, so he can still draw you a card.

An expensive obey if I really need someone to take an extra action. 

Bumblebeeline (he's not very fast) him for a model and hope to tie it up. 

Aiding  monster hunters by running in the direction you want to use creep along.

Removing destructible terrain.

Pseudo-condition removal with the assist action.

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2 hours ago, Angelshard said:

He can be used to obey your own for a damage and a mask and an eight😁

Jokes aside, enslaved is among the worst totems in the game. 

The uses I've found for him are:

Push with his quick action.

Ensuring that I can still get value out of the family values trigger if I send a member off alone. Nephilim is still a familiy model, so he can still draw you a card.

An expensive obey if I really need someone to take an extra action. 

Bumblebeeline (he's not very fast) him for a model and hope to tie it up. 

Aiding  monster hunters by running in the direction you want to use creep along.

Removing destructible terrain.

Pseudo-condition removal with the assist action.

 

That's all pretty helpful. I suppose another option is to try to run him as a front liner with Papa Loco to deal additional blast damage in a scrum. If you want to incentivize the opponent clipping him you could add the No Prisoners upgrade for a grenade ... but his free-action push is actually the useful thing on his card.

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@le_wahou Normally I'd agree in a heartbeat, and even here I still do. But, there is an argument to be made for not taking it as that boosts Heroes gambit, this is only really valid if you're pretty certain you're going to be outnumbered. If you are you're trading a model for a card per turn and an extra pass token.

My main problem with the nephilim is that even it's push isn't very good as it's away from the model, so you have to think about positioning for a quick action that still requires a tome to give it's focus. And that is the only good thing on the entire front and back of the card.... That is a bit depressing. Foul mouthed motivation had been so much better. 

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19 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

Can we talk about how bad this totem is?  Because for this to even be considered is wild.  I don't know any other faction that this would even be a question.  

 

Its certainly been talked about in other factions at times over the past year (It might have been during beta, I can't remember now so it may not be the case now as they may have changed a models rules) but I think I've seen Colette, Tara and Sommer all being mentioned by at least 1 person as they would rather not take the totem because of the pass token(s). It might well also be a play style choice of the totems thing not matching what the player wanted the crew to do.

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Wow, this is downright bizarre...

I'm looking at this card and wondering what the problem is. He's got Frightening Reminder in a very shooty crew with a tome trigger to give Focus. This is a 4" push in a crew with some legitimate shooting elements. He's insignificant with Black Blood making him totally expendable. He's meant to block charge lanes, get in the way of the opponent, provide another activation to shoot possibly, and then die for card draw. 

Black blood is a nice plus for dealing a bit more damage when he dies. The obeys are something that can be utilized if your control hand is good and you need to finish something off with a model that has already activated. In a crew with a lot of range attacks the agency provided to use a good high card to give yourself another high stated shot can affect the game pretty drastically. Also, there are WP 3 and 4 models in this game. If you have a 13 mask or an RJ.. you can obey an enemy off an objective, out of position, whatever. 

Plus people dont want to have to kill him.. they're are more important targets in a family crew. Playing this model right is forcing your opponent to deal with it. He can still engage and stop a model from being able to interact.

I think choosing to NOT take a totem for a pass token is an absolutely ridiculous idea, but luckily free will is a thing and you can do whatever you want and justify it however you want. I'd highly recommend taking every model available, actions win games (even insignificant) not pass tokens. 

I think cunning is a big part of the game. Not doing the same script every game and having tricks up  your sleeve is paramount to consistently winning. Gotta have multiple plays in your book or you're too predictable and relying strictly on grinding stats and your control hand/luck. Deception and using unconventional tactics can throw an opponent that is used to a certain style of play.  

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Compare it to Penelope who buffs all themed models near her and can give a keyword model any action you like for an unsuited seven. If the neph had that it could force a concentrate which would also push the friendly without needing to cheat a tome in a crew where each unused low card is a full action on another model. It's basically got anti synergy with the theme. 

The mech attendant can push all friendlies instead of one and ties into the power mechanic for Hoffman while having armour +2 and able to scheme. The scribe has an amazing cheat aura and can pop back up focusing everyone within 2 if the opponent doesn't one-shot him. The printing press gives you a larger hand. I could go on about good totems. 

I agree the neph is probably better than a pass token but compared to other totems it seems like a missed opportunity to offer so little to the crew. 

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Just now, Ludvig said:

I agree the neph is probably better than a pass token but compared to other totems it seems like a missed opportunity to offer so little to the crew. 

How about Corrupted Idols? Sure it might be statistically irrelevant, but I've won & lost idol placements by 1. I've won & lost games because one of us consistently forced idol placements in highly advantageous positions.

That's where I'd consider leaving the neph out. It's not a thing I'd consider for any other totem* (I haven't read through all the cards).

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3 minutes ago, Nikodemus said:

How about Corrupted Idols? Sure it might be statistically irrelevant, but I've won & lost idol placements by 1. I've won & lost games because one of us consistently forced idol placements in highly advantageous positions.

That's where I'd consider leaving the neph out. It's not a thing I'd consider for any other totem* (I haven't read through all the cards).

With the glass cannon nature of a Perdita crew the pass tokens might actually outweigh the totem when I think about it. 😂

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For activations, the only difference beetwen getting a model or a pass token is that the model can be killed before activation. If your opponent spends AP to kill the nephilim, that's good for you. I do not think that the debate is here. You may want to not hire the totem to get 1 more card from Perdita's bonus action, but the pass tokens is not the real question in my opinion.

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On 11/17/2019 at 1:50 PM, 4thstringer said:

Can we talk about how bad this totem is?  Because for this to even be considered is wild.  I don't know any other faction that this would even be a question.  

 

As @Adran said, Colette would like a word with you - it's maddening picking a heavy elite crew and still conceding Pass tokens to the opponent, and they serve barely any purpose besides early-game teleport nodes.

The captive nephilim looks positively useful in comparison.

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33 minutes ago, DuBlanck said:

As @Adran said, Colette would like a word with you - it's maddening picking a heavy elite crew and still conceding Pass tokens to the opponent, and they serve barely any purpose besides early-game teleport nodes.

The captive nephilim looks positively useful in comparison.

Teleport nodes sound like a really good thing.

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I'm not saying doves are great, I'm saying that the nephilim totem actively hurts heroes gamble while bringing very little to the table.

I agree that a free model is better than none. I'll also say that a model that has so little synergy with its crew is a sad thing and badly designed. The enslaved nephilim was bad in m2e, I was hoping they would do better this edition. 

Also I'd say that the ability to be used as a soul stone and ferry performers plus flight and annoying makes doves a lot better than enslaved. 

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Just now, Angelshard said:

I'm not saying doves are great, I'm saying that the nephilim totem actively hurts heroes gamble while bringing very little to the table.

I agree that a free model is better than none. I'll also say that a model that has so little synergy with its crew is a sad thing and badly designed. The enslaved nephilim was bad in m2e, I was hoping they would do better this edition. 

Also I'd say that the ability to be used as a soul stone and ferry performers plus flight and annoying makes doves a lot better than enslaved. 

Interesting, I would have said the enslaved neph was far from perditas crews problem in 2e.  I took him every time I took her.   That push was actually good.

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1 minute ago, 4thstringer said:

Interesting, I would have said the enslaved neph was far from perditas crews problem in 2e.  I took him every time I took her.   That push was actually good.

I'd be more interested in the push if the core defensive mechanic of the crew wasn't outranging the opponent. It already feels like they have negative internal synergy with Bravado.

Anyway, it's been interesting to read the opinions here range from "This model is incredibly useful and has a dozen things it can do!" to "This model is worthless." I'll probably try running without it sometime just for kicks.

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