Tourney Bat-Rep from Des Moines (11-9)

[Yore Huckleberry]

Thought I'd write out a "crunchier" bat-rep from the tournament I went to in Des Moines last weekend! I finished top of Faction over zero other Guild players!

 

Round One: 5-3 loss running Nellie into Shenlong on Corrupted Idols, Corner Deployment. Vendetta, Power Ritual, Take Prisoner, Assassinate, Outflank. Board had fairly wide open spaces.
My list: (I took Outflank and Power Ritual)
Nellie w/LLC
P. Press
Alison Dade
Field Reporter
Mounted Guard
The Jury
Undercover Reporter
False Witness

His List: (He took Outflank and Power Ritual as well, I believe)
Shenlong w/Masked Agent
Aspiring Student
Aspiring Student
Wandering River Monk
Wandering River Monk
Low River monk
Samurai w/Trained Ninja
Samurai w/Trained Ninja
Sensei Yu

Round One:
My plan was to send Nellie one way with the Mounted Guard, and Alison and the Field Reporter to the other corner. I doubled up on Outflank and Power Ritual, and felt I could beat my opponent to the corners with Reporter speed and the Mounted Guard. I wound up deployed with the idol token on the Alison/Reporter side instead of Nellie, and adjusted my plan to have the Mounted Guard, Printing Press, and Nellie chip away at a Samurai (he deployed them both centrally to my deployment zone to take potshots) -- I think this was a game-defining waste of AP by me, but at the time I wanted to clear it so Nellie could have a line on potential idols through the central three drop points. His round one was a big Shenlong power-up followed by that crazy 21" charge into my Mounted Guard (again, I should have just moved it a full 19" to the corner, but instead took a potshot at the activated samurai, tempted by my own Pursue bonus!). My Undercover Reporter replaced his flanking monk running towards the opposite corner, setting him back a turn's worth of AP.

Round Two: I scored 3-0 on him: the second idol landed by the first and I tossed one over as Alison and the Undercover Reporter had my Field Reporter interact to drop a marker. He wasn't able to bring enough force in to remove or contest that corner. Meanwhile, on the opposite side I had my Mounted Guard run in to drop a power ritual marker for the following round, and Shenlong came in and killed it -- critically misplaying by finishing it with a kick instead of the anti-demise Dragon's power, so I was able to "gotcha!" him by replacing into a Guard Patrol that counted as my outflank point. Nellie wasted more time stuck with the Samurai because I still wanted a line on the center.

Round Three: he won initiative and was finally getting monks to bear on the Field Reporter/Undercover Reporter corner. He was able to tie up Alison finish off my Field Reporter, and score an idol. Shenlong handily cleared my guard patrol and stood defending that corner. He scored 3-0 on me this round on Outflank and (I believe) Power Ritual.

Our game tipped into Round Four with about 10-15 minutes left. I hustled towards the corners and nearly kept Alison up for Outflank and Power Ritual, but he was able to kill Alison on one corner and then used Four-Winds-Punch into my Black Joker to move Nellie's marker and flip it to Ten Thunders (actually he just moved Nellie and dropped it; we post-gamed that and realized LLC would have stopped the movement, but he still could have simply flipped it's alignment in the corner. He scored Outflank and the Strat to end 5-3.

 

Match Two: I ran Lady Justice into Jack Daw in Reckoning, taking Dig Their Graves and Power Ritual. I won 5-1.

This game was pretty methodically a matter of applying the Lady J toolbox to an undead melee crew. I brought 2 exorcists, Judge, Jury, and Lone Marshal. He brought a handful of hanged, guilty, dead outlaw, and Montressor.

The real defining feature here was that we were in Flank deployment and my zone literally had an elevated platform with a ramp up to it. I put the exorcists, Jury, steward and Lady J up there and put the Judge and Lone Marshal on another flank. The Lone Marhsal charged out and took a run-and-gun shot on his way to round 2 Power Ritual. My (significant) totem stayed in my back corner for the second power ritual point, and in round 3 the Marshal, totem, and Lady J with her leap scored that. Round 2 Lady J set up the Reckoning and Dig Their Graves point by leaping in, dropping a marker (2" engagement advantage) and dealing most of the damage required: an exorcist finished up the kill and the point for strat and scheme. The Judge harried his sidelines and dropped a bunch of damage into Montressor, who I killed Round 3 (size 3 model is VERY visible to ranged attacks). He dogpiled the Judge in rounds 2 and 3 and got his point from Reckoning -- even that was a close thing. If we'd had more time, I had a pretty clear field round 3 to finish up Dig, even by finishing off my own models that his Drowned had spammed some damage onto with a Red Joker blast.

 

Match Three: I ran Nellie into Zipp on Wedge Plant Explosives. Schemes were Deliver a Message, Claim Jump, Detonate Charges, Take Prisoner, Hold Up their Forces

My list: (I took Detonate Charges and Claim Jump on my Investigator, hoping to get some good synergy going in the middle by having the False Witness drop multiple scheme markers while the Investivator's bubble pushed people away.)
Nellie (bomb)
P. Press
Field Reporter (bomb)
Alison Dade (bomb, bomb)
The Jury
Investigator
False Witness
Undercover Reporter
Guild Hound (bomb)

His list: (He took Deliver a Message (misplay!) and Take Prisoner on the Investigator ... stopping my Claim Jump hopes!)
Captain Zipp
Earl Burns (bomb)
The First Mate (bomb)
Pigapult
Bayou Gator (bomb) w/ 12 cups coffee
Taxidermist w/ Inferiority Complex (bomb)
Taxidermist w/ Inferiority Complex
Flying Piglet (bomb?)

I had a rough deployment here, with a patch of spikes adjacent to the front of one side of the wedge. It bunched me up a bit. I may have his bombs wrong.

Round One he opened with Zipp and dropped 2-3 pianos along my remaining open flank, really bottlenecking me. It scattered a bunch of damage and I mostly took it, since a concerted attack was going to finish my Guild Hound or False Witness anyway. A handful of models simply made their saves because my hand was trash. My opponent seemed frustrated that I held so many cards, and told me post-game he was worried I'd be able to win real duels later in the round from that. Alison bolted free and tied up Earl Burns, clipping him early round 2 and denying one bomb. The Undercover Reporter activated late to send the caffeinated Bayou Gator home, so he lost one round's worth of upgrade movement. The Pigapult launched a Taxidermist into my backfield to cut up my False Witness and I just gave up on him and pushed everyone else forward.

Round Two was a chaotic mess in the middle. I kept trying to clear ground for Claim Jump with marker dropping and Nellie-mispositioning; he kept shoving models back at the figure to score Take Prisoner. At one point he tried to Deliver a Message to Nellie, only to have me point out the Exclusive Interview problem. I felt bad about the Gotcha! but it hadn't occurred to me to explain it pre-game -- I'm really new and I'm used to everyone else knowing more than me, and it hadn't occurred to me that he wouldn't know the mechanics there. I had simply chosen Nellie to foreclose one of his choices. I scored the strat easily, and he was able to get a marker down as well.

By round Three he'd torn my force up pretty well. Alison was able to score me strat points and I got off a detonate charges with Nellie by interacting through Don't Mind Me and forcing one of his models to drop the other token for it. He scored Take Prisoner on the Investigator and denied my Claim Jump.

Round Four we were pressed for time, leading to us each scoring the strat. He took the win at 5-4 or 5-3, I honestly can't remember which, but I think it must have been 4 because I was able to get strat points with Alison consistently and did pull off detonate once. He got three strat points and both Take Prisoner points -- the second one he dogpiled models onto the Investigator and blocked a good amount of space with a piano to prevent any escape lanes.

 

These were good games and I think Guild has play, for sure. I probably need to bring a bit more firepower or tarpitting into my Nellie crews, and Lady J really had a chance to shine when everything went her way (matchup, terrain, schemes). Meanwhile, I'm on the player learning curve trying to catch up to all you guys who have been playing for years -- these were my 6th, 7th, and 8th games of Malifaux skirmish!

 

[Cursed25]

46 minutes ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

Our game tipped into Round Four with about 10-15 minutes left. I hustled towards the corners and nearly kept Alison up for Outflank and Power Ritual, but he was able to kill Alison on one corner and then used Four-Winds-Punch into my Black Joker to move Nellie's marker and flip it to Ten Thunders (actually he just moved Nellie and dropped it; we post-gamed that and realized LLC would have stopped the movement, but he still could have simply flipped it's alignment in the corner. He scored Outflank and the Strat to end 5-3.

 

I f I understood well did Shenlong moved strat markers? what do you mean by flip it to TT?

[NickDub]

2 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

I f I understood well did Shenlong moved strat markers? what do you mean by flip it to TT?

His Wandering Style Upgrade lets you choose a target, pick up markers within 3" pulse, move that model 6", and drop markers of same type. Rules state when dropping markers they are always friendly to you, so he can change scheme markers

[Trample]

4 hours ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

These were good games and I think Guild has play, for sure. I probably need to bring a bit more firepower or tarpitting into my Nellie crews, and Lady J really had a chance to shine when everything went her way (matchup, terrain, schemes). Meanwhile, I'm on the player learning curve trying to catch up to all you guys who have been playing for years -- these were my 6th, 7th, and 8th games of Malifaux skirmish!

 

Great job in your 6th game of Malifaux (I was the Shenlong player). It was only my 2nd game of Shenlong in 3rd, but I've had a lot of games in 3rd already (and plenty in 2nd) and you had me pretty darn worried in round 2! I hadn't played against Nellie prior to that and wasn't familiar with the False Witness ability to control the interact - that surprised the heck out of me (as did the mounted guard's demise ability as you pointed out)! 

Nellie does seem pretty solid. I think you're probably right in your analysis. Perhaps ignoring the samurai entirely and putting your power into the corners would have done it. I look forward to playing you again soon! 

[Yore Huckleberry]

7 minutes ago, Trample said:

I hadn't played against Nellie prior to that and wasn't familiar with the False Witness ability to control the interact - that surprised the heck out of me (as did the mounted guard's demise ability as you pointed out!)

Thanks on all counts!

Yeah, Exclusive Interview is interesting because on most of the models it replaces an engagement range. So you can’t tarpit an opponent, but with a lead-lined coat you can make them deal with you before they can interact — mostly effective for cursed idols and power ritual, though it gets a bit of play in Plant Explosives if the lanes are tight.

I hope you don’t mind my using our game as an example that Shenlong isn’t unbeatable — I think 4-winds punch might be hard denial against power ritual’s second point and I should have taken something else, but I also think I had a real chance at blocking more points if I’d moved a little more directly to my original strategy.

What was your second scheme, by the way? I remember it as outflank/power ritual too?

[Yore Huckleberry]

3 hours ago, Cursed25 said:

I f I understood well did Shenlong moved strat markers? what do you mean by flip it to TT?

Nick answered this above, but by TT I mean Ten Thunders. He picks up my guild markers and drops them as Ten Thunders. I honestly don’t care about all the beatsticking and demise blocking and healing and chi on Shenlong — this is the ability that feels unengageable to me!

[Trample]

6 minutes ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

Thanks on all counts!

Yeah, Exclusive Interview is interesting because on most of the models it replaces an engagement range. So you can’t tarpit an opponent, but with a lead-lined coat you can make them deal with you before they can interact — mostly effective for cursed idols and power ritual, though it gets a bit of play in Plant Explosives if the lanes are tight.

I hope you don’t mind my using our game as an example that Shenlong isn’t unbeatable — I think 4-winds punch might be hard denial against power ritual’s second point and I should have taken something else, but I also think I had a real chance at blocking more points if I’d moved a little more directly to my original strategy.

What was your second scheme, by the way? I remember it as outflank/power ritual too?

Yes, those were my schemes. 

I'm not sure about Shenlong yet. I now have a whopping 4 games with him. I've been playing mostly Molly in 3rd, but I am extremely fickle, so I wander between factions and masters way too often. Shenlong seems really good with Fermented River, but none of them are unbeatable. 

[Yore Huckleberry]

1 minute ago, Trample said:

Yes, those were my schemes. 

I'm not sure about Shenlong yet. I now have a whopping 4 games with him. I've been playing mostly Molly in 3rd, but I am extremely fickle, so I wander between factions and masters way too often. Shenlong seems really good with Fermented River, but none of them are unbeatable. 

Given that there’s so much chatter about him — what felt most pressuring from a Shenlong side of things?

Were there matchups or schemes that felt harder to accomplish?

[le_wahou]

5 hours ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

Nick answered this above, but by TT I mean Ten Thunders. He picks up my guild markers and drops them as Ten Thunders. I honestly don’t care about all the beatsticking and demise blocking and healing and chi on Shenlong — this is the ability that feels unengageable to me!

We always understood that the markers he drops are the ones he picked up. If he collects your schemes, he drops your schemes. Even with this, this action is really powerful, especially as his 2 totem can do it too

[eddy]

19 minutes ago, le_wahou said:

We always understood that the markers he drops are the ones he picked up. If he collects your schemes, he drops your schemes. Even with this, this action is really powerful, especially as his 2 totem can do it too

This is probably how it was intended but during beta meaning of drop and place changed. We are stuck with RAW interpretation until FAQ explaims it

[Cursed25]

3 hours ago, le_wahou said:

We always understood that the markers he drops are the ones he picked up. If he collects your schemes, he drops your schemes. Even with this, this action is really powerful, especially as his 2 totem can do it too

I always thought it was working as you said! ahah! xD but since you remove the old scheme markers and by looking at the drop rules for markers this is true! You drop TT scheme markers! I'm not sure this is intended tho! 😕

 

This is the ability I'm pretty sure will get nerf when the errata will come! It will surely get a TN and they will have to be clear about what type of markers is dropped after removing them! (And I play Shenlong and TT!  they are my main faction but I think this is too powerful!)

[Starrius]

3 hours ago, eddy said:

This is probably how it was intended but during beta meaning of drop and place changed. We are stuck with RAW interpretation until FAQ explaims it

Why would you stick with raw when the wording of the card would overnight raw.

It specifically stats on the card "drop any markers removed by this action" if it was changing the markers this wording wouldnt work and youd remove the scheme markers and then not be able to drop anything?

[Ogid]

I'd try to play fair in the local meta. If something is clearly not intended, an oversight and too powerful It's better try to find the middle point until it get patched imo.

Maybe not in a tournament tho, there TOs has the last word and may rule these and everyone will be trying to use the most broken crews they can find. It's good these issues have some visibility there so it gets errated soon.

[Starrius]

For my games with the pale rider I'm removing tokens at the end of turn, I am not sure they intended its devastation being used turn 3 4 and 5, so we came up with this as something that feels better.

 

Sure in a tournament I'm going to use it as it's written but for non competitive games this is what we are doing

[Myyrä]

50 minutes ago, Starrius said:

Why would you stick with raw when the wording of the card would overnight raw.

It specifically stats on the card "drop any markers removed by this action" if it was changing the markers this wording wouldnt work and youd remove the scheme markers and then not be able to drop anything?

I have to agree here. The wording on the action looks very much like it drops the same markers it removed. There are also other actions that actually drop enemy markers, so not all markers dropped by a model are automatically friendly.

[Trample]

10 hours ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

Given that there’s so much chatter about him — what felt most pressuring from a Shenlong side of things?

Were there matchups or schemes that felt harder to accomplish?

In the games I've played so far it seems like he can do most things. I lost game 2 that day when I charged Shenlong into an overextended Hooded Rider. He was boosted with distracted +4 and 5 Chi. I did exactly 0 damage to the Hooded Rider! Everything went downhill from there. So, in that game the pressure came from my crew not doing what it was designed to do. It was against a Collodi crew, which I've never seen or read (I haven't looked at any DMH stuff). He was able to throw a lot into Shenlong, who had to retreat to heal at the top of turn two, which meant he was able to dictate engagements. In reckoning that is not good. 

We already talked about my surprise with False Witness. There are fewer gotchas in 3rd, but you need to have pretty good model knowledge to do well in this game. 

So Shenlong seems very good. I am not a big fan of record keeping, so I am not sure I want to be playing much Shenlong because of Chi tracking. Poison tracking is the reason i really don't get McMourning out that much. 

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Starrius said:

For my games with the pale rider I'm removing tokens at the end of turn, I am not sure they intended its devastation being used turn 3 4 and 5, so we came up with this as something that feels better.

That's intended like that 100% sure, the problem with the pale rider is his 5 suits (devastation) is overloaded (irreductible damage, slow, burning, heal...) and he is also very safe being able to shot from 12'' and also get a LLC (H2W and Armor combine very very well) while waiting for the right moment to go in. All riders are very powerful, he just needs some minor tweaks (probably removing some negative states from his kit would put him in line again, the staggered from his  attack and the slow and burning from the 5 suits one would be my guess for an errata)

Take in count that removing the tokens at the end of a turn make the riders "squishy", they got 9 Wds for 11 cost. Their defensive stats are very good; but even with H2W with a few good hits they can die; tokens not only let them use their abilities but are also what let them stay in the table.

[eddy]

well removing burning is fine. But taking away slow would make it too weak compared to other riders abilities

[Starrius]

Over an I dont mind the ability it's the speed at which the tokens stack up.  Not needing to even use a ram card and still being about to pull of the devastation potentially 3 turns in a row I feel seems over the top.

 

Maybe also.because of how they were in m2e where it was turn 4 with a card and turn 5 otherwise. It's a case of did they intend fornitnreally to be used that early

[Paddywhack]

15 hours ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

Nick answered this above, but by TT I mean Ten Thunders. He picks up my guild markers and drops them as Ten Thunders. I honestly don’t care about all the beatsticking and demise blocking and healing and chi on Shenlong — this is the ability that feels unengageable to me!

I believe there was some debate on the rule forum about how it works. It may be FAQ'd to drop the original markers. That's how I read it and works similarly to what he used to do. 

[Ogid]

2 hours ago, eddy said:

well removing burning is fine. But taking away slow would make it too weak compared to other riders abilities

mmm... it's true that taking away options could not be the right call... maybe making it more versatile with a few "or" instead of "ands": For example the  trigger choose between Staggered, Injured+X OR Burning+X and the 5 ram pulse being able to choose between the 2/3/4 irreductible damage OR Burning+2 and Slow.

However taking in count this guy is in most lists; if he is nerfed, it will probably come with buffs for most crews.

[Mxbedlam]

2 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

I believe there was some debate on the rule forum about how it works. It may be FAQ'd to drop the original markers. That's how I read it and works similarly to what he used to do. 

THe NC FAQ and most of the UK meta has declared that the markers don't change orientation through this or Wong's Up In Space. 

[Yore Huckleberry]

9 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

THe NC FAQ and most of the UK meta has declared that the markers don't change orientation through this or Wong's Up In Space. 

I think it wouldn’t have mattered in my game — even with Nellie’s position locked by LLC, he would have been able to move my markers out beyond the scoring range, which is all he needed the ability to do.

[Cursed25]

18 hours ago, eddy said:

well removing burning is fine. But taking away slow would make it too weak compared to other riders abilities

all the riders will surely get nerf in some way because they all are very powerful and game changing for there cost!  

[eddy]

1 hour ago, Cursed25 said:

all the riders will surely get nerf in some way because they all are very powerful and game changing for there cost!  

Well thats idea about riders as they are most expensive pieces except masters. They should be game changing. On the other hand they have counter like obey. Just put pressure on them so they need use token for deffence.