Hired Swords- a Viktorias tactica

[Dr4mis]

On 12/31/2019 at 4:45 PM, KevinGillett said:

Interesting read thank you

Love the viks, played them in to 3 tournaments exclusively, won 8 drew 1. So versatile as I seem to play them completely different

I could type for ages about the viks, my faves 

 

 

 

@KevinGillett sorry for late answer but can you show me 1 or 2 crews for those tournament? I would really appreciate it 🤓

[Rygnan]

Added in GG1. Now is the time for Viks to shine! They really work well with the new strats and schemes

[Cuilion]

Thank you so much for your work! 

I played each strat one time so far, 3 of them with Viks, Public Enemies with von Schill. That does not make me an expert, but I would still like to share where I tend to have a different opinion (which means I agree everywhere else): 

Symbols: I think it is a very strong strat for the Viks. I secured my defense by annoying my opponent a while with 2 of my markers which he of course got at some point and securing the other 2 with Taelor. You should be able to place those 2 markers in a way that Taelor has reach and can hide behind a terrain piece. At the same time you should be able to get at least 3 enemy markers, in my game I got 4. We are incredibly fast and can have 2 Don't mind me models (Big Jake and Emissary upgrade, I had it on a Vik). 

Public Enemies: I do not think this is a good Viks strat. We are squishy and our model (Viks) give too many bounty tokens. Each melee is a big risk for us and we cannot overcome our weaknesses like armour, incorporela etc... It might work in some rare setups but overall I believe this is not a go to for Viks. 

Let them bleed: This is a great scheme to score against the Viks. If we take it, it forces us to take too many risks. I would stay away. 

Leave your mark: I took it and scored both points. First point is easy with Emissary, second one is situational. 

Research Mission: Agree with one exception. This is awesome if the opponent heavily relies on markers and has to place them in their half. It is super easy to score this against Reva with all her corpse and pyre markers in her table half. 

Runic Binding: I think that is super hard to setup, even with emissary. It forces us to spread our crew less - but isn't this exactly what we wanna do? Did you actually take it and scored? 

[Jafar]

I played against Viks recently. Had feeling that during Turn 1 whole crew only made "Walk" actions. Of course, gave Shielded, checked cards with Big Jake etc. But still, it was more or less all like this. Am I missing something?

Can some experienced player share thoughts?

[Nagi21]

1 hour ago, Jafar said:

I played against Viks recently. Had feeling that during Turn 1 whole crew only made "Walk" actions. Of course, gave Shielded, checked cards with Big Jake etc. But still, it was more or less all like this. Am I missing something?

Can some experienced player share thoughts?

Depends on the matchup and what you're going for.  Mercenary is like Nephilim in that turn 1 is getting into position for Turn 2 unless you're planning an all-in.  I'm sure there's optimizations but walking a lot on T1 isn't uncommon.

[Jafar]

12 hours ago, Nagi21 said:

 I'm sure there's optimizations but walking a lot on T1 isn't uncommon.

It's not like nothing was done. Scheme markers were dropped in some places, Focus was taken etc. But still it was not what I expected. When I compare it to OC crews I play / saw more (Levi, Schill, Parker), it looked like my opponent was missing something. But it looks this is how Viks play.  

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Jafar said:

It's not like nothing was done. Scheme markers were dropped in some places, Focus was taken etc. But still it was not what I expected. When I compare it to OC crews I play / saw more (Levi, Schill, Parker), it looked like my opponent was missing something. But it looks this is how Viks play.  

I think its not that uncommon for crews that are based on melee attacks. They can't often get to attack (or at least not safely) on the first turn, so they use it to prepare and position.  You could probably try and build a crew that did "something" on turn 1, but the most obvious something is sending a model deep into enemy forces to Alpha strike. The crew generally has lots of little in built movement tricks of its own to get into melee, rather than things to buff other crew members.

[Jesy Blue]

I have once done Servant of Dark Power on both Vik's, and alphaed both of them into Dreamer turn 1.... he did not survive.    Both Vik's died too, and then it was like those chess games when both queens are gone before the 5th move.

If you need something dead, you can do it... but there is no exit strategy.  Welcome to the Suicide Squad.

[LightningJuice]

The Viks definitely aren’t what they used to be, they can still murder things but it takes a bit more effort and suits - especially facing targets with armor. And yeah, you’ll almost certainly lose them both if you try an alpha strategy. 
 

To me the Viks in 3E require patience and planning. And to keep in mind the bigger picture - score points. Let them help you run schemes or the Strat if needed, but of course if there’s a juicy target or a scheme runner on the flanks, eliminate it by all means. They aren’t point and shoot so much. I like to spread them at the max of the 6” (8-10” if you factor Battle Tempo) place bubble for each other to keep options open, position, smoke and mirrors, use their agility to your advantage. 
 

Last game I played with them my first two turns with the Viks were Walks and Interacts, save for one East/West Firearm shot when the opportunity presented itself. I like to let my opponent’s innate fear of the Viks slaughtering everything make them stay on edge, all the while just scoring points! 

[daniel sprayberry]

So I picked up Victoria's core box the other day. I do like the stark difference between her and Hamelin. I ordered the loyalty for coin box and await bases to test her out. They seem like a strong crew but not much in the way of hand cycling. Is the emissary worth including ? I'm having a hard time finding a crew he works in besides maybe bandits. Big Jake seems cool but I agree the Ronin is just a stronger pick. The Desperate Merc seems to have a niche too, most of your models you'll want to use to keep the pressure up and he is a good cheap model to use as a back line strat denier. I mean the speed and damage output potential in the crew is a little ridiculous and if I knew it was coming I would send a strat runner around the side and try and make it up in points. What are some suggestions for goo strat picks anyone has seen?   

[touchdown]

Big Jake is incredible for certain schemes with his re-summoning on turn 5 and don't mind me. Consult the Ancestors is a huge value. You can just let it fail and you got a 5 or less out of your deck and into your discard pile.

But yeah Ronin are one of the best 6 stones models in the game imo.

I can't find any use for Desperate Mercs. Never take them.

I take the Emissary quite often. Mercenary is great at being in a place, not as great at getting scheme markers down. The Emissary helps with that. His healing and movement auras are both great. Ranged attack that gives slow is huge. His upgrades are great. Love that donkey.

I also really like to bring Hans. Pioneers find their way into my crews. OOK, scavengers are always good.

I'm not a big fan of Bishop or Taelor but I just listened to the 3rd floor wars about the Viks and the #2 Outcast player in the UK uses both of them so I may need to re-evaluate.

10 minutes ago, daniel sprayberry said:

I mean the speed and damage output potential in the crew is a little ridiculous and if I knew it was coming I would send a strat runner around the side and try and make it up in points.

If someone tries to spread you out, that's playing into your hands. The harder stuff for the Viks to handle are: 1) summoners who can spawn chaff in your way. You don't want to spend your AP fighting tar pits or bayou gremlins. 2) semi-bubble crews with a lot of defensive tech. The Viks lose efficiency fast against any defensive tech in the game (maybe an exception for htw since they're min 3 and can generate extra attacks).

14 minutes ago, daniel sprayberry said:

What are some suggestions for goo strat picks anyone has seen?   

As a crew they excel at Leylines, and they're fine to good at Recover Evidence and Symbols. Public Enemies would be an uphill fight for them. Anything that requires a lot of movement or being in a certain place is good for them. In general, you should be able to overpower your opponent away from their "main" force.

[daniel sprayberry]

*Update*

So played my first game with the Victs and going from Hamelin to them was a bit of a tempo shock. Man, can they hit hard and fast. My list was Vanessa, 2 Ronin, Taelor, Big Jake and a Prospector with 6 stones to spare. I had Servant on the Ronin but forgot about it so I was effectively 4 stones down that game. I'm on the fence with Big Jake. He is a good model and if he was Versatile I would take him a lot more in other crews but I feel like a third Ronin would just be better. The prospector did Prospector things as this crew seems very stone hungry. I would imagine one would stone every damage flip aimed at the Victs until turn three making them a focus point while the Ronin run strats and make the final push turn 4/5 or run counter strat. All in all I like the crew and its simple yet overwhelming style. I can't really think of anything it needs besides maybe some more minions or enforcers to give it more options than just run screaming into the enemy + all the attacks = Profit!  

[Nagi21]

On 9/21/2020 at 1:00 PM, daniel sprayberry said:

*Update*

So played my first game with the Victs and going from Hamelin to them was a bit of a tempo shock. Man, can they hit hard and fast. My list was Vanessa, 2 Ronin, Taelor, Big Jake and a Prospector with 6 stones to spare. I had Servant on the Ronin but forgot about it so I was effectively 4 stones down that game. I'm on the fence with Big Jake. He is a good model and if he was Versatile I would take him a lot more in other crews but I feel like a third Ronin would just be better. The prospector did Prospector things as this crew seems very stone hungry. I would imagine one would stone every damage flip aimed at the Victs until turn three making them a focus point while the Ronin run strats and make the final push turn 4/5 or run counter strat. All in all I like the crew and its simple yet overwhelming style. I can't really think of anything it needs besides maybe some more minions or enforcers to give it more options than just run screaming into the enemy + all the attacks = Profit!  

I mean you have Hans as an option.

[daniel sprayberry]

On 10/2/2020 at 8:31 PM, Nagi21 said:

I mean you have Hans as an option.

Tried him, honestly not worth his points with this crew. The crew is real stone hungry and Hans at max can do less damage than a ronin on average and scheme runners tend to be weaker so a 4 stone issue for my opponent with the potential to stop him and most certainly slow him down is better than ending the runner and the opponent diverting resources to stopping the Vict Pain Train

[FabioMatt]

Just popping by to say thanks for the post.

As a newbie player, who is enamoured with the Viktorias, this is a godsend.

[Rathnard]

On 10/4/2020 at 10:28 AM, daniel sprayberry said:

Tried him, honestly not worth his points with this crew. 

I've played him a few times with the Viks now, and I've yet to regret having him on the team. 

What Hans offers is threat range. His damage potential isn't as high as a similarly costed melee fighter, but the fact that he can do it safely from 24" away is what makes him useful. He pins down your opponents crew, makes it harder for them to advance without suffering early damage and if they do, he softens those targets up for the Mercs to finish off later. He's not great vs armour (but that's what your Ronin are for, right?  ), but he's got a good set of potential debuffs neuter certain problem models (Slow, Staggered, Distracted & Stunned). 

Hans' biggest weakness is that he's more or less boned once engaged. But when paired with a highly mobile, melee centric crew like the Viks, that doesn't seem to have been a priority for my opponents. So instead, he's just steadily plugged away at my opponents models all game.

[touchdown]

If they do start priotizing Hans, take the student of conflict, yoink him out with I've got your back and give him fast.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I find Hans is quite good for dishing out conditions at range, sometimes completely shutting down important activations.

However, he can struggle a bit when engaged in melee as pointed out above, so it is matchup/faction specific. If you take him against Ressers, they can potentially engage him quite easily (although he is a good counter to Dead Rider as well).

EDIT: My perspective is playing against him and how annoying he can be. I pretty much have to deal with him (which is easier for my ressers since often half the crew can zip across the board easily). Can imagine he is a nightmare for crews that struggle to chase him down.

[Plaag]

hans is not a good model -he need a lot of focuses, but only scavenger could give them to him and often he would just spend your cards

[Maniacal_cackle]

30 minutes ago, Plaag said:

hans is not a good model -he need a lot of focuses, but only scavenger could give them to him and often he would just spend your cards

I don't see why he needs focused. He ignores friendly fire and concealing. If you are on standard deployment for example, you can shoot anything that goes near the centre (which is hugely relevant in many games).

The Sniper ability seems more like a situational thing than something you should rely on (for example they have Archie retreat on 3 health, you just one shot him).

EDIT: Also, if you do want to give him focused, I believe Vanessa is one of the models of choice to hand out focused in Mercenary? But I could be wrong.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't see why he needs focused. He ignores friendly fire and concealing. If you are on standard deployment for example, you can shoot anything that goes near the centre (which is hugely relevant in many games).

The Sniper ability seems more like a situational thing than something you should rely on (for example they have Archie retreat on 3 health, you just one shot him).

EDIT: Also, if you do want to give him focused, I believe Vanessa is one of the models of choice to hand out focused in Mercenary? But I could be wrong.

he is not mobile, so opp can hide near terrain, vanessa cannt give him focus

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, Plaag said:

he is not mobile, so opp can hide near terrain, vanessa cannt give him focus

Oh right, I forgot that they have to be engaged for her to hand out focus.

I don't think a shooter like him needs to be mobile. He should aim to control territory rather than chase and shoot enemies.

[ShinChan]

On 11/15/2020 at 3:43 AM, Plaag said:

he is not mobile, so opp can hide near terrain, vanessa cannt give him focus

Well, it had to happen, another time I'm agreeing with you sir 😜 

On 11/15/2020 at 3:34 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't see why he needs focused. He ignores friendly fire and concealing. If you are on standard deployment for example, you can shoot anything that goes near the centre (which is hugely relevant in many games).

The Sniper ability seems more like a situational thing than something you should rely on (for example they have Archie retreat on 3 health, you just one shot him).

EDIT: Also, if you do want to give him focused, I believe Vanessa is one of the models of choice to hand out focused in Mercenary? But I could be wrong.

If he can sit in the deployment zone without moving and still shoot at people at 14", maybe you're playing in an Infinity table and not in a Malifaux one.

[Maniacal_cackle]

15 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

Well, it had to happen, another time I'm agreeing with you sir 😜 

If he can sit in the deployment zone without moving and still shoot at people at 14", maybe you're playing in an Infinity table and not in a Malifaux one.

You can typically find a corridor where he can shoot, that's not really an issue. The tricky thing is finding a corridor your opponent is going to walk into even knowing Hans is where he is.

That's why I mentioned the centre. For an extreme example, if claim jump + leave your mark are in the pool, you can be reasonably confident that your opponent will go to the centre at some point.

Which is part of the point - you need to find a clear shooting line and then take advantage of future positioning there. If you try to position where your opponent currently is, that's a fruitless chase across the board.

EDIT: I do play with lots of forests, hills, and narrow rocks. Dense is pretty easy to bypass, and concealing and cover are pure upside for him. The only thing that stops his shots is full LOS blocking. If he gets to stand on a hill, even better.

EDIT2: Case in point - in November world series on vassal, every board has multiple deployment zones that can draw LOS to the centre of the board.

[ShinChan]

17 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

You can typically find a corridor where he can shoot, that's not really an issue. The tricky thing is finding a corridor your opponent is going to walk into even knowing Hans is where he is.

That's why I mentioned the centre. For an extreme example, if claim jump + leave your mark are in the pool, you can be reasonably confident that your opponent will go to the centre at some point.

Which is part of the point - you need to find a clear shooting line and then take advantage of future positioning there. If you try to position where your opponent currently is, that's a fruitless chase across the board.

If you're the attacker, and your opponent doesn't force you to deploy him first, maybe you can find a good spot for him. If you're the defender, you can see a part of the enemy crew and try to have LoS to those, which you won't be able to shoot (efficiently) until turn 2, when if they wanted to be safe from Hans, they could already have been.

That means that he can have an impact in the game. Is that impact worht 8ss? IMHO, never with the Outcasts crews that I play, I have better picks for a similar cost.

EDIT: I do play with lots of forests, hills, and narrow rocks. Dense is pretty easy to bypass, and concealing and cover are pure upside for him. The only thing that stops his shots is full LOS blocking. If he gets to stand on a hill, even better.

EDIT2: Case in point - in November world series on vassal, every board has multiple deployment zones that can draw LOS to the centre of the board.

There could have been ways to put him in trouble. Like map 1 forcing the opponent to deploy in the top right corner. Map 2, any corner but the top right and in map 3, yes, he would most likely could have been played around.
Another thing is that, if the would have been a good pick, why nobody played him so far? I can think of tons of reasons 😜