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Regelridderen

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7 hours ago, Regelridderen said:

I just had a nice game, where Serena scored me two points for Claim Jump, which made me realize, it’s actually a decent scheme for her. 

She can make her presence felt with her Tendrils and Twist up to 8” away. And her twist can even teleport opponents into position.

If needed, she can even walk, pop Painkillers for up to 6 health and return to her position. 

And of course she has that nifty Demise:Eternal. 

I feel like she is probably one of the best claim jumpers in the game with inhuman reflexes on!

She is super durable, can push enemies out of combat, even if you have her on one life she can get back to half health on her activation, etc.

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15 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I feel like she is probably one of the best claim jumpers in the game with inhuman reflexes on!

She is super durable, can push enemies out of combat, even if you have her on one life she can get back to half health on her activation, etc.

She is in so many ways a great model. A really big and durable toolbox - and when you look at her, you expect something at the level of a rotten belle. 

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Something I found out when using Titania's crew against Pere Ravage and his demise ability.  Her "Into Thorns" trigger happens before the demise happens.  So you can kill him and then throw him into the rest of his crew, away from yours and then have him blow up.  Use it against them.

I don't think my opponent will take him against Titania again, lol

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On 12/30/2019 at 12:47 PM, Chris Rivers said:

Something I found out when using Titania's crew against Pere Ravage and his demise ability.  Her "Into Thorns" trigger happens before the demise happens.  So you can kill him and then throw him into the rest of his crew, away from yours and then have him blow up.  Use it against them.

I don't think my opponent will take him against Titania again, lol

There is some disagreement about that timing though so use caution. I think it's a valid reading, but I play that the move happens after the damage e.g. you don't get the move if you kill the target. It could go either way, but I play to more conservative route so I don't get into a bad spot if a TO disagrees.

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19 hours ago, Alcathous said:

There is some disagreement about that timing though so use caution. I think it's a valid reading, but I play that the move happens after the damage e.g. you don't get the move if you kill the target. It could go either way, but I play to more conservative route so I don't get into a bad spot if a TO disagrees.

 

On 12/30/2019 at 3:47 PM, Chris Rivers said:

Something I found out when using Titania's crew against Pere Ravage and his demise ability.  Her "Into Thorns" trigger happens before the demise happens.  So you can kill him and then throw him into the rest of his crew, away from yours and then have him blow up.  Use it against them.

I don't think my opponent will take him against Titania again, lol

The crux of the argument is, if I kill something with damage that happens in the same attack action, but before the triggers, does the model die prior to the damage flip or no?  Currently unresolved, YMMV.

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19 hours ago, Alcathous said:

There is some disagreement about that timing though so use caution. I think it's a valid reading, but I play that the move happens after the damage e.g. you don't get the move if you kill the target. It could go either way, but I play to more conservative route so I don't get into a bad spot if a TO disagrees.

I think that’s a misleading explanation of the issue.

The problem is that there are two Timing points specified for “when resolving” triggers:

  • Modifications to damage get resolved during Damage Timing (Damage Timing Step 3)
  • New effects get resolved at the end of Step 5 (essentially added to the end of the effect text).

and it’s not clear in the rules whether a “When Resolving” trigger that does both gets split in half (the part of the effect that modifies Damage gets resolved during Damage Timing, the rest gets resolved at the end of Step 5) or if the whole trigger gets resolved during Damage Timing.

That’s the deciding factor concerning when Into Thorns’s place happens.

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Also, Into thorns trigger has the following structure:

  • When resolving, increase damage.
  • Then, Place.

That "Then" could be instructing players to wait until the damage is fully resolved before moving the model... There are other triggers that delay effects but they are a bit more explicit about the timing (the unbury condition in Glimpse the Void for example).

I hope this get clarified because right now it can be any of them.

 

Related to this question, I'd like to see a definition about what is an effect rules-wise for the Sequential effect rule (pg34). We have 2 options:

  • Damage is an effect (so any other effect is delayed until players go through all 6 step of damage timing because we have to fully resolve an effect before resolving the next one). In this case the demise will trigger first.
  • Each step of the damage timing is an effect, in this case the movement will happen in the step 2 of the damage timing, at the same time than the +1 damage gets added to the damage track. In this case the movement will trigger first.
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6 hours ago, solkan said:

I think that’s a misleading explanation of the issue.

I wasn't trying to explain the issue, just state that there are multiple interpretations.

5 hours ago, Ogid said:

Also, Into thorns trigger has the following structure:

  • When resolving, increase damage.
  • Then, Place.

That "Then" could be instructing players to wait until the damage is fully resolved before moving the model... There are other triggers that delay effects but they are a bit more explicit about the timing (the unbury condition in Glimpse the Void for example).

That sums it up very well.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Two things from a game with the Savage crew:

Firstly, if you have one card in your discard pile, you can old ways that card over and over again.

Secondly, and more importantly, using old ways counts as flipping that card from the discard pile, meaning that if the top card is a red joker, it counts as being flipped (i.e. no cheating vs it).  Also you can use it vs things like gamble your life.

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15 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

Two things from a game with the Savage crew:

Firstly, if you have one card in your discard pile, you can old ways that card over and over again.

Secondly, and more importantly, using old ways counts as flipping that card from the discard pile, meaning that if the top card is a red joker, it counts as being flipped (i.e. no cheating vs it).  Also you can use it vs things like gamble your life.

Unfortunately you can't use it against stiched. Gamble doesn't count as a duel, and you can only use the old ways against duels.

EDIT: Nor can you use it on damage flips, so it must be pretty rare to use the same card over and over?

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2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Unfortunately you can't use it against stiched. Gamble doesn't count as a duel, and you can only use the old ways against duels.

EDIT: Nor can you use it on damage flips, so it must be pretty rare to use the same card over and over?

True on the stiched, however you can use it on tactical actions which require TN's so yes you can use it over and over again (just not offensively).

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3 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

EDIT: Nor can you use it on damage flips, so it must be pretty rare to use the same card over and over?

Oh wait you are right! Damage flips aren't a type of duel (covered in the pg 24 erulebook) so Old Ways cannot be used in those! It makes that ability worse than I initially thought...

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2 minutes ago, Ogid said:

Oh wait you are right! Damage flips aren't a type of duel (covered in the pg 24 erulebook) so Old Ways cannot be used in those! It makes that ability worse than I initially thought...

Only slightly.  I never expected it to work for damage flips.  The fact that it counts as a flip itself though is good enough.

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2 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

Only slightly.  I never expected it to work for damage flips.  The fact that it counts as a flip itself though is good enough.

I initially read it like that and as I've not played that crew, never stopped to read the ability in detail again -_-

It's true the flip part is really good tho; it may let you cheat the RJ for severe damage and then use it in the next attack to make that attack uncheatable which with a bit of luck may give another straight damage flip. It's also good to attack through tactical actions that generate TNs, not damage flips.

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1 hour ago, goth said:

Teddy can ‘Consume’ Killjoy from 3” away for some heal which allows Gorar to replace into a Killjoy while keeping your two Blood Rituals untouched.  Good for teleporting your beater across the board unexpectedly.

Just make sure you've got that 12+ of Masks in hand, or you're in a bit of trouble.

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10 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Just make sure you've got that 12+ of Masks in hand, or you're in a bit of trouble.

Haha yes, that would be funny; fortunately Gorar's version of Mold of the Others is suited, any 12+ would do it.

Another thing to keep in mind is the other player will probably get an activation before you can use Mold and after that play it'll become a high priority target; so making sure it's not in range of something that can kill it is important.

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4 minutes ago, Chilbi said:

Not sure if it works that way but can I place Blood Sacrifice on Serena or Juju, "kill" them to summon Killjoy and then heal for 4 with the Demise ability?

Yes you can do this. What will happen is that Serena or Juju will then be removed from the table as killed.

Healing a model only removes the killed status if the model was killed for being on 0 wounds. So if you kill it any other way, demise eternal and so forth will not keep them alive.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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