Regelridderen Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 Malifaux is quite complex with tons of options and synergies, that might not be apparent your first few games. So what have been your heureka moments? My latest was figuring out Baby Kade. Using Pandora’s Despairs Influence to give the murder baby a built-in crow trigger, just makes him that more lethal / resource draining. While realising you can use Misery to move opponents into/in his engagement range to trigger Pounce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 There are loads of Neverborn and NB-adjacent models which enjoy having an automatic mask on their attacks. Changelings can copy masters’ tactical actions. Have fun. The moment we realized that Hayreddin declaring Necrotic Decay trigger for self-damage also tacked on 1 extra non-stacking black blood damage was not a happy one for me as the opponent. Min 4+1 is nasty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted November 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said: There are loads of Neverborn and NB-adjacent models which enjoy having an automatic mask on their attacks. Changelings can copy masters’ tactical actions. Have fun. Dora’s ability is limited to friendly woes, and still demands a discard... So I’m not sure, how you’d go about generically handing out suits. And I’m not sure, how to have enough cards with the proper suits for discarding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Regelridderen said: Dora’s ability is limited to friendly woes, and still demands a discard... So I’m not sure, how you’d go about generically handing out suits. And I’m not sure, how to have enough cards with the proper suits for discarding? Limited to targeting woes. The Changling literally just copies it, then you discard a card for whatever suit you want. Neither ability requires a flip, so a perfectly good use of 1's and 2's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Nagi21 said: Limited to targeting woes. The Changling literally just copies it, then you discard a card for whatever suit you want. Neither ability requires a flip, so a perfectly good use of 1's and 2's. The changling will still be limited to targeting woes thought. It's copying the action to it will still get the action costs and requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 35 minutes ago, Adran said: The changling will still be limited to targeting woes thought. It's copying the action to it will still get the action costs and requirements. I mean that's fine. I want those suits on Candy and Kade and Pandora and Carver. Doing that twice per turn for 4 stones and saving my master AP and using my low cards is amazing XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CzaszkaA Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Nagi21 said: I mean that's fine. I want those suits on Candy and Kade and Pandora and Carver. Doing that twice per turn for 4 stones and saving my master AP and using my low cards is amazing XD 5 stones, he's not versatile. I agree that suits are nice but discarding 4 cards leaves you vulnerable to execute and simple duels (if you had to discard moderate card for suit). Don't get me wrong, idea is nice, and 5 stones seems worth it, but discarding 4 cards a turn seems a bit overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, CzaszkaA said: 5 stones, he's not versatile. I agree that suits are nice but discarding 4 cards leaves you vulnerable to execute and simple duels (if you had to discard moderate card for suit). Don't get me wrong, idea is nice, and 5 stones seems worth it, but discarding 4 cards a turn seems a bit overkill. Haha, I guess he means those models are good targets, not he want to give them the suits each turn to all those models. I agree 4 cards and actions for that would be overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, CzaszkaA said: 5 stones, he's not versatile. I agree that suits are nice but discarding 4 cards leaves you vulnerable to execute and simple duels (if you had to discard moderate card for suit). Don't get me wrong, idea is nice, and 5 stones seems worth it, but discarding 4 cards a turn seems a bit overkill. Where are you getting 4 cards from? It's two cards a turn to put on two models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CzaszkaA Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Nagi21 said: Where are you getting 4 cards from? It's two cards a turn to put on two models. Right, 2 cards per turn on changeling, my bad. You listed 4 models so I assumed extra 2 cards discarded by Pandora . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 A note here, Just Like You! is once per activation. A changeling can only give 1 suit per turn, not 2. They are still great models that go well with Woes; they can for example use Candy's Basket in a pinch without activating her early or wasting her APs walking, Use Pandora's tentacles to pin down some models, Use Scatter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted November 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 I definitely see the synergy with Kade, the changeling liberally handing out slow, allowing the murder baby to function further away from Pandora by ensuring him crows. But for 5 stones I’m leaning more towards the mobility, resilience and general nuisance, that you get from Sorrows and Aversions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 For the 6 stones I do like Aversions more, but Sorrows I find a bit lacking in general so I would probably take a changeling more often than a sorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 20 hours ago, Ogid said: A note here, Just Like You! is once per activation. A changeling can only give 1 suit per turn, not 2. And that's why it's 2 cards per turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regelridderen Posted November 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Nagi21 said: For the 6 stones I do like Aversions more, but Sorrows I find a bit lacking in general so I would probably take a changeling more often than a sorrow. I'm always amazed by how Sorrows can really take it with incorporeal and Life Leech. Mine are usually a good source of Stunned, while they just add to the grind, hovering just on the outskirts of the action, bearing down on small scheme runners trying to get around it all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 Sorrow really needs to fight something around his cost. A dedicated beater with Focused will just crush him without blinking, being even able to one shot him hitting a severe 6 damage. But a 5-6SS model will be unable to deal enough damage and will get slowly grinded down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mut Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Ogid said: Sorrow really needs to fight something around his cost. A dedicated beater with Focused will just crush him without blinking, being even able to one shot him hitting a severe 6 damage. But a 5-6SS model will be unable to deal enough damage and will get slowly grinded down. This. They require some finesse, like most things in Malifaux, and they're fantastic for pinning down fast models that tend to be used as scheme runners. I've had a couple games where they've basically negated a model with Butterfly Jump thanks to Misery and Misery Loves Company (looking at you Silurids). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniacal_cackle Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 Regarding the original question... A lot of people seem to miss that charge doesn't require a target. You can charge and attack a stealth minion. You can move-charge to avoid Molly's Lethe's Caress, etc. I also missed when reading Lure for the first few times that you can lure your OWN models. The ability became so much better when I realised that. I think for many abilities, you know in the back of your mind you can use it on allies, but you never think to. Black Blood Shamans getting a trigger to drop corpse markers by stabbing their friends is another good example. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skystrife Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 I had one last night, my opponent was playing Colette and I was playing Dreamer the game was Turf war, I have never played into her before & I did not know about her defence triggers on attack actions . after summoning a few stitched I realised I could just gamble my life with her as its a tactical action popping in the 13s and it bypassed her defence trigger to bury and the distracted she was throwing out !!!, been able to do 5 damage a swing with no defensive triggers soon keeps her away or shes dead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 On 11/15/2019 at 11:36 AM, Skystrife said: I had one last night, my opponent was playing Colette and I was playing Dreamer the game was Turf war, I have never played into her before & I did not know about her defence triggers on attack actions . after summoning a few stitched I realised I could just gamble my life with her as its a tactical action popping in the 13s and it bypassed her defence trigger to bury and the distracted she was throwing out !!!, been able to do 5 damage a swing with no defensive triggers soon keeps her away or shes dead. Haha, poor guy! Colette (or any squishy model relying heavily in df triggers) needs to be very careful about the counters in the other team; these tend to counter them hard. About the main topic, some details I missed initially: Obey doesn't change friendly/enemy; you can relent versus these. Charge/bring it over hazardous terrain for 2 pings of Hazardous (2 actions) Putting adversary in your own model to fish for suits (with BBS for example) In Pandora crew; you can give her a mask with her own "Despair's Influence" (or using a changeling) for a buit-in defensive trigger (which may be used also to move that model away and waste her second action if it wanted to charge and attack twice and for to df duels if the enemy triggers aren't threatening) Relenting make the defender final duel equal to the attacker; useful for df trigger shenanigans with the wildfire keyword. The modifiers of a duel get only applied in step D, so these aren't taken in count to determine who cheat first.* *EDIT: About the last one, there are more than 1 kind of modifier, check this: https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/148833-modifiers-to-duel-totals-after-cheating/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelshard Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 Concealing and cover also counts against friendly models, so obeying a friendly, concealed model suffers a . Never noticed that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mut Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 17 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said: Regarding the original question... A lot of people seem to miss that charge doesn't require a target. You can charge and attack a stealth minion. You can move-charge to avoid Molly's Lethe's Caress, etc. I also missed when reading Lure for the first few times that you can lure your OWN models. The ability became so much better when I realised that. I think for many abilities, you know in the back of your mind you can use it on allies, but you never think to. Black Blood Shamans getting a trigger to drop corpse markers by stabbing their friends is another good example. I use this all the time on Hinamatsu for an 8" move. People look at me like I'm cheating when I do it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxer Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Angelshard said: Concealing and cover also counts against friendly models, so obeying a friendly, concealed model suffers a . Never noticed that. With Zoraidas "eyes in the night" ability, when she targets say a Bad Juju who happens to be in concealing terrain, can she just use this ability to ignore the concealment as she'd be measuring range and LOS from JUJU himself to target himself? Would this mean that Zoraida's obeys only suffer from concealment when targeting non Swampfiends when in concealing terrain? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 As long as Juju is within range for her to draw the Los from it that should be fine. If you need someone else's eyes you're worse off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogid Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Mut said: I use this all the time on Hinamatsu for an 8" move. People look at me like I'm cheating when I do it Haha, the exact same thing happened to me the first time I used that trick with Samurais (TT)! 4 hours ago, Fixxer said: With Zoraidas "eyes in the night" ability, when she targets say a Bad Juju who happens to be in concealing terrain, can she just use this ability to ignore the concealment as she'd be measuring range and LOS from JUJU himself to target himself? Interesting question... Models have LoS to themselves (rulebook pg16) and It won't count as a "self-attacking" because Zoraida is the one attacking... It seems legal. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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