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TT's dominance in UK's Tournament


Cursed25

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I think it's important to note that power level is not the only reason to errata in and of itself.  Generally you look to errata where;

  1. The meta revolves around something;  you have to either play it, or play to beat it.
  2. Something is unpleasant / not fun / non-interactive to play against.

Power level can be a root cause of these, but something can be 'OP' without needing to be errata'd (see Rotten Belles in M2e), and not OP but still causing the above issues and get fixed (I'd argue Zoraida in M3e GG0).

With Shenlong I'm most concerned about how un-fun the game against him is.  Generally because the combination of; threat range, Chi, Drunken Kung Fu , and Irreducible Damage make him quite non-interactive.   He does his thing and you can't really interact with it;  you can't really cheat to beat an 8 stat, you can't often put him on negative to damage, you can't stone to reduce, you can't use defensive triggers. 

The areas I'd probably look at are these (not calling for all of them to be changed, I just think this is where the root of any issue with him sits);

  • Drunken Kung Fu interacting with Fury of the Dawn, giving always [+] damage and irreducible / onslaught on the same attack.
  • Charging with Falling Rave Kick giving a 12" threat range for one action.
  • Four Winds Punch being over efficient scheme denial.
  • Masked Agent's Unnerving Presence turning off the Defensive Triggers on leaders, making some keywords almost unplayable vs Thunders.

All IMHO - YMMV.

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22 minutes ago, mythicFOX said:

With Shenlong I'm most concerned about how un-fun the game against him is.  Generally because the combination of; threat range, Chi, Drunken Kung Fu , and Irreducible Damage make him quite non-interactive.   He does his thing and you can't really interact with it;  you can't really cheat to beat an 8 stat, you can't often put him on negative to damage, you can't stone to reduce, you can't use defensive triggers. 

This. If he has the cards in hand (which he will probably do, thanks to Kitty) he is going to delete one miniature and there is nothing you can do. Including masters.

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On 11/12/2019 at 11:01 AM, mythicFOX said:

That's a misleading way of cutting the tournament results (at best).

 

Now we can argue about the right way to count events, and if we should count from a time when the beta was still tinkering around the edges or not, but I really don't think it's honest to present a narrative that TT aren't doing really well at both local and national levels in the UK.

James, locally TT's get chucked in the bin by a filthy Arcanist player on an every bloody week basis so technically it feels very honest when we play :( 

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1 hour ago, mythicFOX said:

I think it's important to note that power level is not the only reason to errata in and of itself.  Generally you look to errata where;

  1. The meta revolves around something;  you have to either play it, or play to beat it.
  2. Something is unpleasant / not fun / non-interactive to play against.

Power level can be a root cause of these, but something can be 'OP' without needing to be errata'd (see Rotten Belles in M2e), and not OP but still causing the above issues and get fixed (I'd argue Zoraida in M3e GG0).

With Shenlong I'm most concerned about how un-fun the game against him is.  Generally because the combination of; threat range, Chi, Drunken Kung Fu , and Irreducible Damage make him quite non-interactive.   He does his thing and you can't really interact with it;  you can't really cheat to beat an 8 stat, you can't often put him on negative to damage, you can't stone to reduce, you can't use defensive triggers. 

The areas I'd probably look at are these (not calling for all of them to be changed, I just think this is where the root of any issue with him sits);

  • Drunken Kung Fu interacting with Fury of the Dawn, giving irreducible and always [+] damage / onslaught on the same attack.
  • Charging with Falling Rave Kick giving a 12" threat range for one action.
  • Four Winds Punch being over efficient scheme denial.
  • Masked Agent's Unnerving Presence turning off the Defensive Triggers on leaders, making some keywords almost unplayable vs Thunders.

All IMHO - YMMV.

Completely agree with you. I just hope that when they take out the ban hammer they look at the other clearly unbalanced things like soulstone miner or BBB.

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15 hours ago, mythicFOX said:

I

The areas I'd probably look at are these (not calling for all of them to be changed, I just think this is where the root of any issue with him sits);

  • Drunken Kung Fu interacting with Fury of the Dawn, giving always [+] damage and irreducible / onslaught on the same attack.
  • Charging with Falling Rave Kick giving a 12" threat range for one action.
  • Four Winds Punch being over efficient scheme denial.
  • Masked Agent's Unnerving Presence turning off the Defensive Triggers on leaders, making some keywords almost unplayable vs Thunders.

All IMHO - YMMV.

I think the biggest issue is the efficiency of Fermented River. There's no reason his best damage style needs to be the style that gives him a free six inch move through models. You only ever consider reaching for High River, ostensibly his "damage" style, for Ruthless. I say consider because you likely just stay in FRS and cheat the terrifying. There's hardly any choice in his play style. 

I think FRS needs a hit, but also thAt HRS needs a buff.

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On 11/21/2019 at 12:46 PM, mythicFOX said:

Power level can be a root cause of these, but something can be 'OP' without needing to be errata'd (see Rotten Belles in M2e)

Ummm... Rotten Belles were errataed in M2e? And it was good for the game. I still won a tournament spamming them after the nerf so it wasn't as if they were bad afterwards. It was a shame that errataing them took Wyrd so massively long but they eventually did.

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