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Woe against Family


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20 minutes ago, Mac_Atk said:

I am trying to single master Pandora to better understand her and focus my M3E play right now.  So what are the suggestions when the matchup is Woe v Family?

Enjoy the free win? The Family as a keyword struggles to win games, in my admittedly limited experience. Meanwhile, I've seen multiple Pandora players in Texas' consistent 12 man tournament rosters...
For brass tacks kinda stuff, the family relies heavily on Gunfighter and ranged attacks. If you can, hire a reach 2 beater model and hand them Butterfly Jump with Inhuman Reflexes (I'd recommend either Teddy with Baby Kade for the Versatile pickup, or Hooded Rider, if you've got him). More often than not, this will cause enough worry / loss of AP that you should gain the upper hand. The Family doesn't have unmanageable Wp or consistent access to ruthless outside of their Rider (which I'd bet money they will take if they've got the model, and you should try to kill it quickly) so Pandora should be a menacing card drain, as usual. Family also generally really likes their triggers, so stun spamming, in addition to being a nice source of board control or plink damage, also robs them of a lot of their teeth. 
Also, try to dictate fights on the board in places that don't feature concealment, if you can. A lot of your power with Candy and Pandora comes from non-:ToS-Melee: attacks which are affected by concealment, whereas the Family can have Monster Hunters with Expert Marksman upgrades, to ignore all terrain penalties, or just use Gunfighter to get around it entirely. 
My final piece of advice is that minimum damage on the Family is generally poor; Perdita has a 2/4/5 track, for example. Monster hunters have the same track. With that being the case, it might be beneficial to Focus and then use Self Loathing, especially if you're having to fight in the aforementioned concealing terrain (he might bring it with some OOK Basse hires)

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I've not played that one but some things I'd take in count:

  • Moderate to High Wp values
  • They like Focused. Carver is a good pick.
  • Perdita has Analyze Weaknessess. Df 4 Teddy on the bench.
  • Papa loco has "Blow it to hell". That may counter cover auras and destructible terrain (Ice Pilars and Maurice may be still useful but this guy counters it), Underbrushes could be a tech choice tho. Plus the shockwaves of this guy are dangerous, not hugging.
  • Santiago has Sober up (condition removal + Focused). Take in count.
  • Abuela "Nice shot, Dear!" is very good, Kill asap or put a big arse in front of her.
  • The paler rider: Always take him in count, especialy playing a bubble crew, again not hugging and keep the pressure on him to force him to expend tokens on defense.

They outrange Woes and bravado let them push and shot (so 16'' for a Focused shot), but their :ranged range is 12 so the same than a Lure.

Pandora will need to either Lure them into the bubble or include fast models to close the gap without getting shot down (Rider, Mature Neph...). Just mind Papa loco 3 damage shockwave and don't let the rider OP pulse hit most of the crew. Consider also models with Stealth (Wicked Dolls, Changelings or Tuco).


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Also remember "A Por El" - it can buy a lot of additional action for Family (Mood Swing should help you against this to force opponent to activate first from low cost models so they will not be able to use this ability) ,

and Bravado requires only enemy in LoS so the push might be used to free from engagment and shot right in your face with focus (and with presence of Carver i would use gained focus asap as i gained it) or go scheming,

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12 minutes ago, FrostHunter said:

and Bravado requires only enemy in LoS so the push might be used to free from engagment and shot right in your face with focus (and with presence of Carver i would use gained focus asap as i gained it) or go scheming,

Bravado push is annoying indeed... also if I get this timming right, it would be: Concentrate, Misery and Push.

The disengage part isn't that important for the damage because most of them have Gunfighter and may attack engaged with the same stat/damage/triggers; unless we are talking about a Mature that will want to keep them engaged or they are interested in attacking a different model. The Carver may at least activate his aura to deal 1 free damage point or push them 2'' if that push is going to position them in a way that the bravado push will bring them right into b2b with him or may ruin a long range shot (but this is very dependent on the positioning tho); plus if they stack Focused and he is the target, he may use Oportunistic in defense (not before they may use Focused attacking, but the rest of the stack is gone).

This is 100% theoryfaux but Adze could be a possible pick here... He is fast and has a stat 6 Lure with 2 very good triggers. The Shimmering Lights aura will soft-counter Bravados in close range (they won't be at :+flip and they won't be able to attack Manipulatives), and he may trigger extra Misery pings... The only problem is he is a bit squishy and easy to shot down.

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They are less scary in an engagement since they can't trigger bonus shots when engaged. At least that seems to be how a lot of people play it. If you are a bit mindful with positioning you should be able to block the juiciest pushes. Try to break LoS as much as possible until you get stuck in. Just concealment isn't that good when they are usually happy to focus since many of their damage tracks are 2/4/5 on the damage dealers. If there's a lot of cover on the board that offsets fo us nicely so try to hit Papa first (should be very easy for a Pandora crew). If they want to leverage a por el and family values on high cost models that means a nice bunch for Candy to jump into and mess up. 


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