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Barking Orders: A Quick Run Down of Dashel Barker


Mxbedlam

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10 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

By the by, am I correct in assuming I can cheat the damage flip on the stewards demise?

Like it says in the book:

Quote

Sometimes during a game you might ask yourself, “Can this flip be Cheated?” Yes, probably. There are two things that prohibit the ability to Cheat, though: :-flip Modifiers and effects that specifically say otherwise. Everything else is fair game (or unfair game, am I right?)

It can take a while to get used to, if you remember how M2E did things.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey guys, 

So as this is the most recent Dashel post, I'll ask here:

Has anyone tried a full gunline? Just straight up pick a position and hunker down? I realize this isn't exactly advantageous for many strats and schemes but I dunno if we've tried it before or not and how it's gone. In M2E this was fun to do with Lucius but haven't tried w Dashel yet. Maybe something like this:

Dashel w/ 7 ss

Dispatch

Sgt w/ EM

Riflemen x3

Guild Patrols x4

Dispatcher and a friendly guard minion is all you need to create enemy scheme markers for summoning, and if kept close together, the Sgt will get plenty of opportunities to fire back at people. Sgt and riflemen all have armor ignoring potential and all ignore cover and friendly fire (concealment as well on Sgt.)

Kind of just a fun thematic list, but having not tested it yet, I'm not sure how well it can do. Lemme know!

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On 11/8/2019 at 9:09 AM, Mrbedlam said:

I don't necessarily think a lawyer is too bad in a Dash crew, just have to figure out if its worth using the cards in your hand for other things. The Obey could be really good if you get that high mask. 

Weird reason I like the lawyer in a Daschell crew.  Use tools for the job to pick up either the mask your dispatcher needs or a high ram to summon without stones.

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6 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

There is nothing more painful than flipping something you want and having it at the top of the discard when you don't want to activate the lawyer.

One of my ideas to try sometime soon (tm) is Dashel summoning two executioners in a Lucius crew. Seems like a good investment and a Lucius crew just has to draw the cards required at some point.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Played Dashel for the first time yesterday.

Disclaimers: It was a learning game, so he was into a sub-optimal pool, on unsuitable terrain (loadsa big LoS blockers and Concealing), I don't have much of a stable of Guild models to use with him, and it was against Jack Daw (who is just awkward to play against).

Corner, Plant Explosives, Detonate (D, J), Message (J), Outflank, Search (D), Leylines.

Dashel, Dispatcher, Effigy, Francisco, Rifleman, Field Reporter, Investigator, Hunter. A far from optimal mix, I know, I just picked a handful from my limited collection that I thought would do work.

Jack, Ligeia, Montresor, 2x Hanged (+Servant), 2x Guilty, Prospector.

It was hard work.

Getting the Scheme Markers down in places they are actually useful can be a real drag, a lot of the summons are a bit pants really, and a bunch of stuff was flimsy enough that I was summoning to maintain board presence rather than overwhelm with AP superiority.

I did manage to summon my Executioner turn 2 (deep in my back field, because of that bloody Prospector) and he jogged up and disembowelled the Prospector, but aside from that there didn't seem to be much grunt from the crew - even with Focus I was hitting Min2 a lot with everyone.

A large part of that is the awkward terrain and card pressure from Daw, and the fact that so much of the crew was low Wp (and in fact low stat generally). It still felt much harder work than Lucius, my only other Guild Master currently.

Sorting out a Queeg proxy and some Mounted Guard is high on the list.

 

Edit: To expand a little, I had hoped to grab a bit of the middle of the board, then summon Hounds and Patrols to push out and drop Markers after I shot the bloody Prospector to death.

I summoned the first pair to push West, and the Guilty and Hanged just battered them without even taking damage, due to Terrifying and pitiful Wp.

After that, I summoned the Executioner to scare some space in the middle, and then a Rifleman to put some lead down range (he still msotly froze up though).

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42 minutes ago, DuBlanck said:

Played Dashel for the first time yesterday.

Disclaimers: It was a learning game, so he was into a sub-optimal pool, on unsuitable terrain (loadsa big LoS blockers and Concealing), I don't have much of a stable of Guild models to use with him, and it was against Jack Daw (who is just awkward to play against).

Corner, Plant Explosives, Detonate (D, J), Message (J), Outflank, Search (D), Leylines.

Dashel, Dispatcher, Effigy, Francisco, Rifleman, Field Reporter, Investigator, Hunter. A far from optimal mix, I know, I just picked a handful from my limited collection that I thought would do work.

Jack, Ligeia, Montresor, 2x Hanged (+Servant), 2x Guilty, Prospector.

It was hard work.

Getting the Scheme Markers down in places they are actually useful can be a real drag, a lot of the summons are a bit pants really, and a bunch of stuff was flimsy enough that I was summoning to maintain board presence rather than overwhelm with AP superiority.

I did manage to summon my Executioner turn 2 (deep in my back field, because of that bloody Prospector) and he jogged up and disembowelled the Prospector, but aside from that there didn't seem to be much grunt from the crew - even with Focus I was hitting Min2 a lot with everyone.

A large part of that is the awkward terrain and card pressure from Daw, and the fact that so much of the crew was low Wp (and in fact low stat generally). It still felt much harder work than Lucius, my only other Guild Master currently.

Sorting out a Queeg proxy and some Mounted Guard is high on the list.

 

Edit: To expand a little, I had hoped to grab a bit of the middle of the board, then summon Hounds and Patrols to push out and drop Markers after I shot the bloody Prospector to death.

I summoned the first pair to push West, and the Guilty and Hanged just battered them without even taking damage, due to Terrifying and pitiful Wp.

After that, I summoned the Executioner to scare some space in the middle, and then a Rifleman to put some lead down range (he still msotly froze up though).

Daw is gonna be a hard match up for Dashel in most cases. Jack put a huge amount of hand pressure on a list that already uses resources like no one's business. 

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  • 2 months later...

Resurrecting this in the wake of discussion in the faction balance grumbling thread.

Anyone cracked it?

I've not played Dashel a lot since my last post, but I have had notably better games playing him as an AP and board presence controller in schemey pools. Burying models in dogs instead of bombing them with an Executioner is maybe less fun but probably more effective, and that 13R can be many dog AP instead of one model. I do still find Cap'n Dash achieving little besides a variably-helpful summon (after a walk/concentrate-shoot-Drop It!) pretty regularly. I don't even get much work out of his concentrate aura either (but more on that later), but his bonus s always worthwhile.

From the thread, I think @eddy is right re: card-hungry Vs card draw in Guard - save something to summon with, and a couple of suited Moderates for TNs, and suddenly you only have maybe one good cheat card and one or two discards left in hand. Most of the uncontested scheme marker shenanigans need a suit, and they are pretty vital getting the early summons up.
That makes it hard to be a decent summoner (despite the broad stable) and still get work out of otherwise ok models. On top of that, they are pretty soft, suffering from a similar problem to Lucius in that the potential Ap advantage can easily be neutered by a couple of smart kills (c.f. @RisingPhoenix).
@GrumpyGrandpa is right that there's stone generation and some problems can be mitigated by stoning for triggers, but I think not having better in-keyword outlets for them properly feels bad.

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11 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

Burying models in dogs instead of bombing them with an Executioner is maybe less fun but probably more effective, and that 13R can be many dog AP instead of one model.

Well, the 13R and whatever resources needed to secure the ESM. (either a high/stoned Tomes, or a 5M+). Not THAT expensive, but still extra.

The only issue I have with summoning the Hounds, is that even early, they're at a deficit, because they don't activate the turn they're summoned, and they're slow the turn after. If there was one minor change I'd make to Dashel, is that Slow from the Upgrade isn't applied to Mindless models.

A Hound summoned on Turn 3 really only has one turn for Scheming. That's a pretty significant tax on their AP.

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11 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Well, the 13R and whatever resources needed to secure the ESM. (either a high/stoned Tomes, or a 5M+). Not THAT expensive, but still extra.

The only issue I have with summoning the Hounds, is that even early, they're at a deficit, because they don't activate the turn they're summoned, and they're slow the turn after. If there was one minor change I'd make to Dashel, is that Slow from the Upgrade isn't applied to Mindless models.

A Hound summoned on Turn 3 really only has one turn for Scheming. That's a pretty significant tax on their AP.

Agreed. I often thought about summoning 2 dogs on first turn and use them as anchor for the I need backup of other summoned models, but this mindless + slow makes them really active only on turn 3.

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Drop It! into a double-dog can put two Hounds in base contact with the target in such a way that you can dictate the direction of their Disengage Push, or force them to waste 1-2AP killing a dog and getting nothing done anyway.

It's not incredible, but it is often inconvenient, and if they don't kill the dogs then it is still an AP gain even if that AP is generally better spent spoiling than achieving something.

Negating this kind of issue is probably what Mr Wannabe McCabe is 'for' but as mentioned previously - nah.

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19 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

Resurrecting this in the wake of discussion in the faction balance grumbling thread.

That thread made me read the keyword in deep (disclaimer: never played it).

Probably my first impresions of the crew are going to be more useful in this thread; so I'm going to copy paste it here:

The good:

  • Mobility: It's a crew that may have 3 models with Ride with me (counting rider), plus a lot of other pushes, fast and little tricks.
  • Scheming power: Between the mobility, Ride with me, creep along, fast, non-insignificant 3SS models, models that become others... that's a lot of AP to work with.
  • Versatile: Decent close and long range punch, good mobility and good scheme marker denial in the keyword.
  • Damage: His models don't have impressive damage tracks, but there are several ways to trigger extra attacks (or some ping damage) in the crew, a fair ammount of critical strikes, Pursue to make them dangerous versus activated models. Also the keyword has access to Focused. But there can be also big hits, Dashel can set up a 7 damage hit by himself and Executioners can take on enemy riders for example (and the crew have the tricks to put them near of a rider and with fast). I don't think they lack damage.
  • Execute: 2 models have it, but being minions is not very reliable. However, add Agent 46, give fast to those models and some way to make the other player discard cards and he may start to think twice about his own hand management.
  • Control: The crew has access to slow, distracted, annoying, Injured and Hunting Partners.
  • Being able to generate SS is always good.
  • Taskmaster works in any model, not only in guard.

Bad things:

  • Card staved: There are a lot of abilities that require discarding cards and the crew have very little card draw; this require leverage well Focused and Adversary in the ofensive and probably including at least 1 OOK models to have card draw (Lawyer, Alan, Investigator...) or being very selective with them.
  • First turn summoning harder than other masters (need to set up an enemy scheme marker), also harder to summon if there is an scheme pool that require few scheme markers.
  • Complex playstile: Guard models need to work with each other more than other keywords; this isn't easy to play.
  • Squishy models: There isn't that many defensive tech outside a few models; Guard Patrols take the hit plus Loot their corpse is the real defensive tech of this keyword (in fact the summon upgrade lure Guard Patrols so they may take the hit XD); again something that require set up, so harder to play than other crews.
  • Need to cover weaknesses with OOK/Versatile models; not 100% sure about it but I'd say Guard benefice a lot from OOK/Versatiles to cover its weak spots and make some of their mechanics really shine; some card draw can make a world of difference.
  • Hounds with Mindless doesn't seem good summons.

Some extra synergies:

  • With the amount of discard card this crew has, combining Dashel shouting orders with Queeg taskmaster for Fast may be expensive. However there are models like Dashel himself, Santiago or the steward who may use their supporting abilities to give Focused to other model and transform that Focused into fast without discarding cards. Ideally, shielded may be used to prevent the point of damage (from Dashel, Lawyers, LLC or Allison for example).
  • Executioners may be set up to strike very hard in one activation with fast and setting up an enemy scheme marker (or just attacking someone near of one), that has the potential of being 4 min3 stat 7 attacks in a crew with models with Ride with me that may position the Executioner, if that model activated and is affected by Adversary, it's probably a dead model.
  • Asuming a model will be near to pick the pieces, Guard Patrols/Dogs "real cost" would be 3/2 SS models. This may be also used to summon several small models as cannon fodder to make the other player waste AP dealing with them and get SS in return.
  • Guard Patrols may let some minions use upgrades like No prisioners without being so killable. Run and gun in a warden, rifleman or Sargent could be decent.

Some good synergies within the faction (not counting masters😞

  • Card draw:
    • Lawyer: Tools for the job seems quite good to get those suits, both Queeg and Dashel may make him draw a card if Coordinated attack is used on him (but he isn't the best target for this tho), he may get tomes as the suit instead of masks to draw 1 card with the bonus action. He add some control with his mele attack.
    • Alan: 1 free card, staggered (also go well with Rider), good coordinated attack target (and Dashel may make him draw a card), may stone executes, surge, and coordinated attack; give slow and with coordinated attack.
    • Allison Dade: Blackmail to refill your hand or deplete theirs; plus surge trigger.
    • Investigator: Riskier Alan, this one has the potential to draw more cards but it's also harder to keep alive and require more set up in an already set up intensive crew; I'd say Alan is better.
    • The Judge: Good beater, staggered, SS generation, nice coordinated attack target and some card draw.
  • Execute:
    • Agent 46: Include him, give him fast, use ride with me to put him in position, copy the rifleman clockwork rifle and enjoy. The Executioner mele attack is another choice, with Guard Patrols taking the hit it's a bit safer to go engage with him. Extra advantages are coordinated attacks with Dashel in mele to draw a card (or extra shoots thanks to hounds) and Analyze weaknesses to make armored targets feel all those small attacks.
    • Grimwell: The keyword benefice from including some models that play with Staggered (Alan, Rider...); Grimwell may both make models discard cards to set up executes or deal a LOT of damage and he is also quite tanky.
    • Hounds: If he discard cards to disengage, he'll weaken his hand and will be more vulnerable to Executes.
    • Greed: Deplete SS.
    • Allison Dade and Alan.
  • They just don't die!
    • Death Marshal Recruiter: Mounted Guard -> Guard Patrol -> Death Marshal (lol) or Guard Patrol use Take the hit -> Death Marshal; this seems very annoying, but it also require discarding cards tho.
  • Pathfinders: Traps go well to tie enemies and have extra targets for Coordinated attacks. Frontiersman rifle damage track benefice from Focused and they have another small push. Traps infilict staggered, so it goes well with Grimwell/Alan, force discard to disengage (Execute theme). Killed traps give scrap to fuel Wardens.


It seems a very interesting and complex keyword, but not easy to play by any means. They need to manage well the hand with all their discard card abilities, being mindful of the position of the models in the table so they may support each other as needed (it's always easier to play strong independent models able to get the job done by themselves), sacrifice Guard Patrols to keep other models alive, set up abilities taking in count friendly and enemy scheme markers and synergies between models, use well their conditions, leverage Pursue, manage SS between defense and stonning coordinated attack triggers for damage spikes... I like what I see in the keyword, however without playing them/versus them I don't know exactly how good they really are.

Hope it helps!

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Absolutely right that there are tools available, and grossly effective when assembled right, but the crew still feels soft and disruptable, and works harder to get results than other crews - particularly because a lot of their kit relies on suits from models that can't stone, but you have virtually no card draw to fish with.

I usually put a Lawyer in my lists these days, but it is barely card draw - Tools for the Job is cycle, and I probably cheat a Moderate Tome for Impassioned Defence: Surge if I use TftJ a Mask to switch on the Obey. I tried a False Witness and Investigator combo for a while, but I find Investigators expensive for what they do (particularly as it can be anti-synergistic with Dashel's summon and Loot Their Corpses). That little unit was inefficient for what they got done.

Agent 46 has gone in a couple of lists, and unfortunately I fear may end up as much of a crutch problem as the Pale Rider - being able to put un-cheatable Mimic into any crew is very, very good. I've not done a great deal with him though because his whole concept outside of keyword just kind of rubs me the wrong way.

The stone generation, as I said before, is barely an advantage until you start drafting out of Keyword, which just rubs me the wrong way. If you bring a small cache, and the game is not killy, then there are no corpses to loot until it is too late and your hand management and damage prevention are scuppered mid-game. If you bring a reasonably large cache, there's barely any need to Loot except letting you be a little more free buying triggers with Dashel.

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