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Kyle

Waldo's Weekly - Dawn of Victory

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...just changing the naming scheme that little bit is a thoughtful addition, thank you! I think Gaining Grounds is the last Malifaux item which has had an M2e version and needs the differentiation.

(That and Henchman Hardcore, which is part of GG...boy did that change.)

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Really like these changes!


Is removing the "A model may not suffer more damage than it's current health" clause in Idols by design? That would mean no one can kill themselves by throwing an Idol (matching the main rules of not being able to take an action that would reduce them to 0 wounds). I like it if so, just looking for clarity.

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21 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

Really like these changes!


Is removing the "A model may not suffer more damage than it's current health" clause in Idols by design? That would mean no one can kill themselves by throwing an Idol (matching the main rules of not being able to take an action that would reduce them to 0 wounds). I like it if so, just looking for clarity.

Also like the changes a lot. To clarify one thing though,

Strategy Markers
When playing in a Gaining Grounds event, if a Strategy Marker would be Dropped by a Strategy and cannot be Dropped in the indicated location, the player with Initiative must instead Drop the Strategy Marker as close as possible to the indicated position and in a way so that it both players or a judge agree has no additional beneficial effects for either player. If the Marker cannot be Dropped in such a way, it is not Dropped.

Corrupted Idols now Creates markers instead of Dropping them, so does it follow the above rules about what to do if the Idol cannot be Created in the prescribed location?

Edit: Also, Plant Explosives reads that a Strat Marker cannot be placed within 6” of another Strat Marker, but I don’t believe that anything in the rules of the Core book or the GG document states that Strat Markers Dropped by a model are considered Friendly to it.

Edited by TheJoyInGaming

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33 minutes ago, Boomstick said:

Really like these changes!


Is removing the "A model may not suffer more damage than it's current health" clause in Idols by design? That would mean no one can kill themselves by throwing an Idol (matching the main rules of not being able to take an action that would reduce them to 0 wounds). I like it if so, just looking for clarity.

We generally keep these types of questions to answer in an FAQ, but this one appears to be a sticking point. 

Yes, that change was made by design. The original intent was for that to not happen (as in a model cannot kill themselves), but the further attempt at clarity ended up making things more confusing, so we removed it. It has always meant to work that way, but there were questions about it, so we removed the question. 

No one can kill themselves by throwing an Idol. 

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32 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Corrupted Idols now Creates markers instead of Dropping them, so does it follow the above rules about what to do if the Idol cannot be Created in the prescribed location?

Season 0.01?

That was my first thought when I saw that clause too.

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29 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Strategy Markers
When playing in a Gaining Grounds event, if a Strategy Marker would be Dropped by a Strategy and cannot be Dropped in the indicated location, the player with Initiative must instead Drop the Strategy Marker as close as possible to the indicated position and in a way so that it both players or a judge agree has no additional beneficial effects for either player. If the Marker cannot be Dropped in such a way, it is not Dropped.

Corrupted Idols now Creates markers instead of Dropping them, so does it follow the above rules about what to do if the Idol cannot be Created in the prescribed location?

Pg. 28: "If a Marker is Created, it is treated as Dropped, with the following additional rules described below..."

32 minutes ago, TheJoyInGaming said:

Edit: Also, Plant Explosives reads that a Strat Marker cannot be placed within 6” of another Strat Marker, but I don’t believe that anything in the rules of the Core book or the GG document states that Strat Markers Dropped by a model are considered Friendly to it.

Pg. 28 "When a model Drops a Marker, it is friendly to the Crew controlling the model that Dropped it."

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Am I reading it right that it remains entirely possible to accidentally set up a board that can results in one or more Cursed Idol spawn points being illegal placements?

Remind me why are we doing Terrain Set Up before Encounter Generation again?

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1 hour ago, Kyle said:

No one can kill themselves by throwing an Idol. 

Thanks for clearing that up. Might want to pin that somewhere though.
I thought it would be thematically cool to have a model throw a idol knowing they will die but I can see why you wouldn't want that.

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2 hours ago, Stonewall78 said:

Thanks for clearing that up. Might want to pin that somewhere though.
I thought it would be thematically cool to have a model throw a idol knowing they will die but I can see why you wouldn't want that.

I think it falls under the "Choosing to Suffer Damage" rule, especially with the change in phrasing.  It may come up a lot, but...

Strategy:

Quote

A model in base contact with a Strategy Marker can take the Interact Action and choose to suffer up to three irreducible damage, ignoring Hard to Kill. If this Interact Action is controlled by another model, the model which controls the Action must choose to suffer the irreducible damage instead of the model taking the Action.

The rulebook (PDF page 33):

Quote

Choosing to Suffer Damage

Some models in Malifaux may generate effects that require them to suffer damage, such as the cost of an Action, or an Ability that may be used by suffering damage.  A model can never choose to suffer damage this way if that damage would reduce their Health to 0 or below.

It's capped at three damage in the strategy, so there's no Hard to Kill related doom scenario.

 

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Huh.

Quote

All information in Gaining Grounds games is considered public information unless it is specifically stated otherwise in the rules (such as a player's Control Hand, Fate Deck, chosen Schemes).

If a player's opponent wants to see a game card, know how many Fate Cards are in their Control Hand, or seeks other pertinent information, that information must be provided. Players may not lie or purposefully mislead their opponents about public information in the game.

vs.

Quote

A player’s maximum hand size is six. If, after resolving any Action, Trigger, or Ability, any player’s hand size exceeds their maximum hand size, they must discard down to meet their maximum hand size. A player may look at their hand at any time, but the contents are kept secret from their opponent.

So the contents of your fate hand is secret, but not the number of cards in it, at least for this season?

Edit:  Actually, I think I remember arguing about this during the beta.  It's actually useful to have it pointed out in Gaining Grounds that you know how many cards are in the other player's hand.  

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For All Out Brawl, is it intentional that things like Reckless will give you a VP for damaging yourself, and that a Ronin may be easily the most effective (and least sporting model) in the format? Each turn Summon to a random table edge, push 3", hope to be within 12" of an enemy to take a potshot, then die using Final Sacrifice to draw 2 cards. You'll end up with a decent selection of cards for your potshots, and 2 guaranteed points per turn (since you controlled the Ronin, which was the model that killed the Ronin), with maybe a third if things go well. Won't win every game, but it'll only lose if someone else puts up a stellar showing.  

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I'm terribly disappointed with the new conversion rules. A lot of great conversions, created for M2E, are now illegal for GG events, because they were built off of other Wyrd models, not the models, they were intended to represent. 

And also the rule itself is not clear and causes confusions. What part of the original model I must use to make my conversion legal? Is the head enough? As long as we usualy recognise other people by the face. Is the headless body ok? Body is the biggest part of the model. Is any "well known" part of the model (like Joss's steampowered hand) legal?

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7 minutes ago, Scoffer said:

I'm terribly disappointed with the new conversion rules. A lot of great conversions, created for M2E, are now illegal for GG events, because they were built off of other Wyrd models, not the models, they were intended to represent. 

And also the rule itself is not clear and causes confusions. What part of the original model I must use to make my conversion legal? Is the head enough? As long as we usualyrecognise other people by the face. Is the headless body ok? Body is the biggest part of the model. Is any "well known" part of the model (like Joss's steampowered hand) legal?

I agree with this, why can't we just leave the 30% rule? I have a lot of nice conversions from M2E, which mainly is a original model, but with some additions or changes. Don't kill the hobby part of Malifaux, it's still a miniature wargame

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2 minutes ago, Scoffer said:

I'm terribly disappointed with the new conversion rules. A lot of great conversions, created for M2E, are now illegal for GG events, because they were built off of other Wyrd models, not the models, they were intended to represent. 

And also the rule itself is not clear and causes confusions. What part of the original model I must use to make my conversion legal? Is the head enough? As long as we usualy recognise other people by the face. Is the headless body ok? Body is the biggest part of the model. Is any "well known" part of the model (like Joss's steampowered hand) legal?

Respectfully agree. Previously conversions was about art and inventiveness. What details you should add to your model to make it recognisable as a character you want to show? What features make the character and what can be changed.

Now it's about reposing.

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I am disappointed with new conversion rules, too. E.g. I have several conversions completely made from TTB multipart kit. Why can't I use them anymore if they are 90-100% Wyrd models? 

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The Search the Ruins change is frustrating, because some models and upgrades become nerfed. E.g. Freikorps's Land Mines were almost exclusively used for this scheme.

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I had a big rant written up concerning the new conversion policy, but I think a shorter version comes across better.

At the moment, there are six different legal versions of Rasputina (not counting Avatar Rasputina, and discounting any differences in appearance between the M3E metal test models and the M3E production plastic):

  • Ice Witch Rasputina/metal boxed set Rasputina
  • Alt metal Rasputina
  • Winter Wonderland Rasputina
  • Vintage Rasputina
  • M2E Rasputina
  • M3E Rasputina

There are currently between ten and twelve different Death Marshal sculpts, depending on whether you count the Puppet Wars sculpts (since Miss Terious is currently a Death Marshal), possibly more depending on what Dead Justice is supposed to be these days.

If there's a problem with models being confusing, it's not solved by telling people that a conversion only counts if it starts off using the intended model.  It would be a lot better if the policy was "recognizable as the intended model".  When you're dealing with several hundred models with multiple alternate sculpts, the only feasible policy is a "Is the model recognizable as..." and let the tournament organizer make the judgement call that the tournament organizer is going to have to make anyway.

Even that's still holding conversions to a higher standard than many of the Nightmare editions, but at least it's a guideline that a person won't wonder whether it's going to be enforced because of existing interests.  

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Since I own tons of old sculpts I usually just start with the model on the card before deployment. Sure it can be confusing for some people due to so many models but it really should be easy to clear up during a game. If someone goes around lying what some off converted model is they should be shun from their local groups anyways.

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Yes these conversion rules are really annoying since a ton of people used the TTB multi part kit to proxy their models, especially those M3E models that are still not out.

These proxies are allowed until the official model is released. So then what do we do with the models we have spent time to assemble and paint after that?

On my side I also purchased TOS models to act as proxies to a few models in Malifaux. They were still Wyrd models and the use & painting were very clear as to the model's role so I complied with the rules but now it is illegal.

I hope that TOs will derogate to this rule.

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