Von Schtook and co: discussion thread.

[Maniacal_cackle]

26 minutes ago, thewrathchilde said:

1. Core Box (Mandatory)

2. University of Transmortis/Valley Girl/or however they repackage it (Mandatory)

3. Necropunks

4. Carrion Emissary & Mindless Zombie (Anna needs this anyway)

5. Bone Piles

If I get the University of Transmortis box (one of each student), do you reckon I'll often regret not having more of the students? Or is one of each usually enough?

Also, thanks for your insights!

[thewrathchilde]

7 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

If I get the University of Transmortis box (one of each student), do you reckon I'll often regret not having more of the students? Or is one of each usually enough?

Also, thanks for your insights!

I went back and edited to add more discussion as well. I think you are good with one of each Student. With the exception of Steel I can't think of a single game I have played where I wished for more than one of a given Student. Typically I am recruiting more Undergraduates or Necropunks anyway though I have recruited Steel and Viscera as well.......a second copy of Steel might be nice for games against armor heavy crews but usually that would be the only thing you would need in multiples. 

Really if you could just get Valley Girl by herself that might be all you needed though Steel and Viscera can provide value in the right game. I summoned in Viscera during my game 2 in the tournament I played last weekend because I was able to summon him in my opponents deployment zone and with Ambush I knew he could let me drop 2 x scheme markers the following turn to give me most of what i needed for the 2nd point of Breakthrough. 

I definitely think Necropunks are  great buy (and summon) for the new as well. I often end up summoning one on turn 1 or 2 that is my back corner marker dropper for Power Ritual, etc saving me from diverting someone that matters. I love the Emissary too though he is also the first model to drop when I need to bring in something specific for a given match. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

33 minutes ago, thewrathchilde said:

Albus has not replaced my other masters as my go to  auto choice for any of these pools and strategies but he is another way of accomplishing them which provides a great option depending on the match. For example, in the tournament I played last weekend in Round 2 I was facing a Basse/Sonnia list in Turf War and took Albus over Seamus for the condition removal, incidental scheme markers, and some other tools in the crew. In Round 3 I took Albus over Molly in Plant (Corner) as he gave me amore resilient crew able to compete well in a less marker based scheme pool while still effectively being able to Plant for the strategy. 

I got the sense looking over the Transmortis crew that it really complements Molly's weaknesses. As such, it is a good second crew for a Molly player like myself. Would you consider that to be a good assessment?

[McCabe]

I agree with most of Wraths points on the crew.

I will say I often also hire Sloth into the crew - the crew is quite resilient so pieces are rarely one rounded and I find his heal infuriates my opponents and Albus being able to strip the slow for fast with one AP PLUS another point of heal is a great combo, the summons also come in with slow so more interactions there. It also frees up Albus AP early turns by letting sloth hand Val fast instead - I like this cause I prefer to get Albus up and putting on offensive pressure as early as possiblr - he is also only 7 stones and is just great for his points - his lack of mobility matters less when his utility reach is so far. Great in idols in particular.

I also think the emissary should be subbed out for the dead rider in some schemes, Anna and Shtook both have auras which can be key in some match ups so making sure they're bubbles are in the mix sooner rather than later can be key too.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 minute ago, McCabe said:

I will say I often also hire Sloth into the crew

I'm planning on sculpting a sloth (animal) to use as Sloth (the model)... So am super stoked to hear this

[McCabe]

14 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I got the sense looking over the Transmortis crew that it really complements Molly's weaknesses. As such, it is a good second crew for a Molly player like myself. Would you consider that to be a good assessment?

They're both tool boxes that can do almost anything - but they do have some unique answers which make them better or worse. I.e. Albus into mass conditions and Molly into mass armour. 

[thewrathchilde]

10 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I got the sense looking over the Transmortis crew that it really complements Molly's weaknesses. As such, it is a good second crew for a Molly player like myself. Would you consider that to be a good assessment?

I agree. We are in a faction that is blessed with multiple masters that can compete in each strategy. Ideally you want at least 2 different master/keywords for each strategy in order to provide you some flexibility to to select based on opposing match. This doesn't have to be the whole faction but can easily be 2-3 (maybe 4) keywords that can do different things and compete well.

There are multiple ways you can get there in our faction it is really up to you which way you want to go. 

[Paddywhack]

15 hours ago, thewrathchilde said:

I definitely think Necropunks are  great buy (and summon) for the new as well. I often end up summoning one on turn 1 or 2 that is my back corner marker dropper for Power Ritual, etc saving me from diverting someone that matters. I love the Emissary too though he is also the first model to drop when I need to bring in something specific for a given match. 

Hmm. I have not liked the M3e Necropunks at all so far. They have always died to a stiff breeze, though I haven't used them since the last update when they got a +1wd. Maybe that will keep them around a bit longer. I wish they had a Df5 and severely miss their self-heal which made them self reliant. So far I've really preferred the Undergrads to Necropunks. YMMV of course. By Your Side is great, though I sometimes run out of cards and can't do it. 

How are you summoning one on turn 1? That seems very lucky to get the upgrade out and kill something on turn 1 unless the opponent really messes up somehow. 

[thewrathchilde]

1 hour ago, Paddywhack said:

 

How are you summoning one on turn 1? That seems very lucky to get the upgrade out and kill something on turn 1 unless the opponent really messes up somehow. 

That's easy; you only need a 6x to get out the upgrade with his bonus action and 2 x 6’s and a 7 to push everyone else keyword within 6” of him 2” and give them focus, then make Valley Girl and Anna Fast. 

You can have her with a 24” threat range and 2 attacks (including Flurry, not including Shove Aside) with one of them focused also...... or if you put the upgrade on Anna she can bat cleanup. 
 

if they are 17” of closer then Valley can get 3 attacks.....

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

Hmm. I have not liked the M3e Necropunks at all so far. They have always died to a stiff breeze, though I haven't used them since the last update when they got a +1wd. Maybe that will keep them around a bit longer. I wish they had a Df5 and severely miss their self-heal which made them self reliant. So far I've really preferred the Undergrads to Necropunks. YMMV of course. By Your Side is great, though I sometimes run out of cards and can't do it. 

How are you summoning one on turn 1? That seems very lucky to get the upgrade out and kill something on turn 1 unless the opponent really messes up somehow. 

In my experience, scheme runners in every keyword get splattered if they are not protected. Maybe it is a carryover from M2E, but certainly in my games models are so mobile that if you send something to an isolated part of the board to scheme, something is going to come leaping from across the table to smash it.

A necropunk with a Valedictorian nearby seems like pretty potent bait. Even if it gets killed by a powerful model, you can punish your enemy for it, surely?

Also +1 wound for a model with armor is a big deal, since now it gives more opportunities to reduce damage.

That said, looking at them, they didn't appeal to me, so I'm sad to hear they're potentially so useful xD

[Paddywhack]

18 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Also +1 wound for a model with armor is a big deal, since now it gives more opportunities to reduce damage.

Seems like... but I've not had luck. Part of my 'bleh' is that they used to be so much better with hard to kill and a self-heal that wasn't an action. I might give them another try, but at 5SS, I often want to just get an Undergrad instead. I've found them quite good at schemeing and some minor killing. 

[Paddywhack]

1 hour ago, thewrathchilde said:

That's easy; you only need a 6x to get out the upgrade with his bonus action and 2 x 6’s and a 7 to push everyone else keyword within 6” of him 2” and give them focus, then make Valley Girl and Anna Fast. 

You can have her with a 24” threat range and 2 attacks (including Flurry, not including Shove Aside) with one of them focused also...... or if you put the upgrade on Anna she can bat cleanup. 
if they are 17” of closer then Valley can get 3 attacks.....

Sounds good on paper, but with terrain and other models on the table I still don't see how you're getting a kill turn one unless your opponent screws up. If you fling Val that far forward, how is Anna getting close enough to clean up? I understand it's not impossible, but I think it would be hard to do on a regular basis, at least on the table we usually run.

It is something to keep in mind that it is potentially possible though. I'll try it out my next game with them and see how it goes. 

[thewrathchilde]

@Paddywhack YMMV; I don’t get it in all games but probably have gotten a first turn summon in 60-70% of my games.. Fast Anna activating near the Assistant and Emissary can walk 7 and then Spirit Barrage twice at 12”, with one of these focused so a 19” threat range for two shots, 26” for one. 

Terrain isn’t as much of an issue with Valley as she has flight and even if the model is in cover it usually doesn’t hurt Anna as cover benefits defense not WP and Spirit Barrage is vs WP. 

Once again, YMMV, this is a generality based on a bunch of games not a guarantee for every game, board, and opponent. 

 

[McCabe]

3 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

Sounds good on paper, but with terrain and other models on the table I still don't see how you're getting a kill turn one unless your opponent screws up. If you fling Val that far forward, how is Anna getting close enough to clean up? I understand it's not impossible, but I think it would be hard to do on a regular basis, at least on the table we usually run.

It is something to keep in mind that it is potentially possible though. I'll try it out my next game with them and see how it goes. 

It is very common to get a kill turn 1 with valley actually. It's not a matter of your opponent messing up- they can't can't just keep every single model out of her range- they'll Jam themselves out of being useful turn2.  Valley can threaten 23 inches with 3 attacks on turn 1 and she has flight- there is very little your opponent can do regardless of how good they are. I kill and summon turn one probably 2/3 Games. 

[Paddywhack]

I guess my flips/cards aren't that good. Even with Focus I can't always kill a model in one activation with Val unless I can get to something really small and weak. Flurry means I'm down to 5 cards, fewer if I want to use By Your Side too that turn, meaning I don't often have enough good cards to beat the opponent to one activation kill a model. Maybe I'm just unlucky though. 

[McCabe]

9 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I guess my flips/cards aren't that good. Even with Focus I can't always kill a model in one activation with Val unless I can get to something really small and weak. Flurry means I'm down to 5 cards, fewer if I want to use By Your Side too that turn, meaning I don't often have enough good cards to beat the opponent to one activation kill a model. Maybe I'm just unlucky though. 

It's not luck if you're keeping the cards you need  and with those kinds of threat ranges you're going after a piece you're really comfortable killing. She's so consistent- and you can stone for puncture to insure it works. Luck rarely matters for the play. 

[McCabe]

I'm really surprised people don't love necropunks. Def 4 sucks but arm 1 hard to wound and 6 wounds for that cost and built in leap. They're one of the best scheme runners in the game.

Have studied opponent and entropy- both super relevant. 

And in a pinch stat 5 with 2 super good attack triggers to finish stuff off. 

I hire 2 most games.

Last game killed a peacekeeper with entropy and game before i killed izamu with onslaughts. 

What do people expect for 5 points seriously 🤣🤣

[Jinn]

6 hours ago, McCabe said:

I'm really surprised people don't love necropunks. Def 4 sucks but arm 1 hard to wound and 6 wounds for that cost and built in leap. They're one of the best scheme runners in the game.

Have studied opponent and entropy- both super relevant. 

And in a pinch stat 5 with 2 super good attack triggers to finish stuff off. 

I hire 2 most games.

Last game killed a peacekeeper with entropy and game before i killed izamu with onslaughts. 

What do people expect for 5 points seriously 🤣🤣

If you compare it to similar models around the same cost it seems pretty insane even with 5 wounds. Why they tacked on that extra wound above the norm of health = cost for Armour +1 models I do not know.

Most Keywords would kill for a model with a built in leap, let alone a tanky cheap one with Entropy and card draw.

[SteampunkCake]

9 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

I guess my flips/cards aren't that good. Even with Focus I can't always kill a model in one activation with Val unless I can get to something really small and weak. Flurry means I'm down to 5 cards, fewer if I want to use By Your Side too that turn, meaning I don't often have enough good cards to beat the opponent to one activation kill a model. Maybe I'm just unlucky though. 

As a wise man once told me, you only have to win your attack duel when you have focus. Unless your opponent has hard to wound (in which case you can stone in a ram in advance for puncture), this will always put you on a straight flip, allowing you to cheat in that moderate/severe damage against a key target. And then you still have 2-3 attacks left to go depending on how close the target was to Valley. With so many opposed flips, you should get a card out of studied opponent.

Its all about target selection. If your opponent over extends a squishy model that is 6/5 stones go and murder it, summon an undergrad or a necropunk. If they throw out something more expensive that you can kill with 2 weaks and a moderate/severe go for it, summon a student.

Having been on the receiving end of this I can tell you that it hurts, suddenly having Valley drop into your deployment zone and just remove a model on turn 1 and summon a student of viscera in it's place, then have the undergrads come to party and start playing whack-a-mole with your crew. 

[SoulGambit]

I am confused as to how people are getting these threat ranges without using Lead the Way.

Leader pushes 2", Vally moves 12", charges another 6", and has a Melee Range of 1" for a total of 21" at two attacks. Now an Undergtad using Lead the Way twice can bring it up to an impressive 29".

Using Lead the Way in this way brings your total needs to a 7+, four 6+, and a 6+ of Crows out of about 13 cards if you put Whisperer on the Prof. That is reasonably likely, but you need that plus you also need cards for Valley Girl to do her work. Even without Lead the Way, that is still 4 cards at 6 or 7+, plus cards to make Valley Girl Work. 

There us definately room there to be screwed over by luck. If you are having the Prof make two models Fast plus push everything, you are also going to need some Lead the Ways to keep him from falling embarressingly behind his crew.

[Paddywhack]

6 hours ago, SteampunkCake said:

With so many opposed flips, you should get a card out of studied opponent.

I love the ability, but I've had 3 turns go without drawing a single card from it . There have been a few games where I've done much better, but for me it's been swingy. Need more games though.

9 minutes ago, SoulGambit said:

Lead the Way twice

Can't Lead the Way twice on the same model. They are using the Totem and the emissary for a +2 Move during her activation I think. 

[SoulGambit]

Thank you for pointing that out. I was in error there. You could still use two Undergraduates to Lead the Way twice on her if you really need to, however.

[Paddywhack]

Just now, SoulGambit said:

Thank you for pointing that out. You can  still use two Undergraduates to Lead the Way twice, however.

True. Lead the Way being only 2" really stings for me. 

[thewrathchilde]

@SoulGambit when Valley activates within 3” of the Assistant she gets +1” move for the remainder of her activation from Move Along. If she is within 6” of the Emissary she also gets another +1” from The Flesh Crawls. She gets Fast from Albus. 

These abilities stack as they are different abilities and both confer + to movement. This takes her to Move 7 for the activation.... so push 2” from Albus, walk/fly 7” for 9 total, charge 7” with 1” reach for 17” threat with another AP plus Flurry and triggers available. Or walk twice and charge for 24” threat plus triggers and Flurry. 
 

Lead the Way or Take By the Hand would further increase it.

[Maniacal_cackle]

On 11/1/2019 at 2:16 AM, thewrathchilde said:

Ideally you want at least 2 different master/keywords for each strategy in order to provide you some flexibility to to select based on opposing match. This doesn't have to be the whole faction but can easily be 2-3 (maybe 4) keywords that can do different things and compete well.

Can you share some 2/3/4 combinations of keywords you think cover (almost) all the bases? Bonus points if they cover bad matchups as well as strategy/scheme/deployment pools.

And I assume you'd throw in a few versatile + OOK (Dead Rider, Manos, Emissary?)

(I'd personally throw in 1x gravedigger as a must as well).