Soulstone cache question

[AtinRik]

Hi all.

I had a few question about this upgrade. 

1- When model, that attached Cache died, does I add Soulstone to Pool?

and

2- For excemple, this upgrade attach to model with Demise (Explosives +X) or some thing like this. If this model dies and kill some other model from Explosive, does I gane any Soulstone?

[Adran]

Yes, the after a model is killed effects will happen before the model is removed from the table.

Yes, I believe you would go through the whole dmage process from the Demise explosives, before you remove this model.

[Mycellanious]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

Yes, the after a model is killed effects will happen before the model is removed from the table.

This is news to me, but Im glad to hear it. If thats how it works maybe it deserves a FAQ?

[solkan]

2 hours ago, Atinrik said:

Hi all.

I had a few question about this upgrade. 

1- When model, that attached Cache died, does I add Soulstone to Pool?

and

2- For excemple, this upgrade attach to model with Demise (Explosives +X) or some thing like this. If this model dies and kill some other model from Explosive, does I gane any Soulstone?

The relevant ability on the Soulstone Cache upgrade:

Quote

Recharge Soulstone:  After a model is killed within 3 of this model, add one Soulstone to this Crew's Soulstone Pool.

Rules points:

1.  The model generating the aura is inside the area of the aura.  So unless the aura includes words to disqualify the model itself (typically words like "other" or specifying something that the model isn't) is affected by the aura.

2.  Models are friendly to themselves.

3.  Because of the damage timing sequence, and to prevent paradoxes involving measurement and the like, "after killing a model" happens before the model gets removed from the game.

 

56 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

This is news to me, but Im glad to hear it. If thats how it works maybe it deserves a FAQ?

See Damage Timing.  Step 6c:

Quote

Any effects that resolve after the model is killed (such as placing Corpse or Scrap Markers) resolve at this point.

Step 6D is:

Quote

The killed model (its model, Stat Card, and any Upgrades) is removed from the game.

So, explicitly, "After a model is killed within 3" resolves before the model with the upgrade is removed from the game.

What would you even expect the FAQ to say on that?

Edit:  The main reason why I'm asking is that M2E had a bunch of stuff that happened "when" a model was killed", some of which ended up saying "the model isn't killed".  (Those were really annoying to deal with, by the way.)  Unless I'm missing something, M3E rewrote all of those effects to happen "after" the model is killed and then arranged the steps in Damage Timing 6 and the corresponding Killed rules as a paradox free process.

If a model blows up when it's killed, that happens in Step 6 C.  If a model turns into something else when it's killed, that happens in Step 6A.  But all of those effects end up being specified as "After this model is killed".

 

[Ming]

I have another question:

If there are two friendly models with Soulstone cache and a model is killed within both auras, will my Crew get two Soulstones? There's no "affected model", and it's a bit confusing,

[AtinRik]

12 minutes ago, Ming said:

I have another question:

If there are two friendly models with Soulstone cache and a model is killed within both auras, will my Crew get two Soulstones? There's no "affected model", and it's a bit confusing,

In this case "affected model" - models with soulstone cache IMHO

[AtinRik]

Quote

Example: Bushwhackers have the Scamper Ability, which reads: “After an enemy model within a6 Cheats Fate, this model may Push up to 2" in any direction after resolving the current Action or Ability.” If an enemy model Cheats Fate within 6" and LoS of multiple Bushwhackers, each such Bushwhacker could Push up to 2", as they are the models affected by the Aura (i.e., the models experiencing a change in their game state).

Example from rule book

[SunTsu]

Does it means that if 2 or more models are killed at the same moment within the aura of a sscached model, you gain only 1 ss?

[Ogid]

2 hours ago, SunTsu said:

Does it means that if 2 or more models are killed at the same moment within the aura of a sscached model, you gain only 1 ss?

It's not clear... at least for me. But I'd say they can trigger

The stacking rules auras say the following:

Quote

Auras are not cumulative. If a model would be affected by multiple Auras of the same name (i.e., if the Aura would change its game state in some way), then it is only affected by one such Aura of its controller’s choice.

And this is the aura:

Quote

Recharge Soulstone:  After a model is killed within 3 of this model, add one Soulstone to this Crew's Soulstone Pool.

There is no model affected by this aura, the aura triggers when a model is killed but the effect of that aura isn't over that model but over the player's cache (which isn't ruled by the above)... so it seems there is nothing preventing two of these auras to trigger when a model is killed in range of both.

[solkan]

23 hours ago, SunTsu said:

Does it means that if 2 or more models are killed at the same moment within the aura of a sscached model, you gain only 1 ss?

I don't think there's such a thing as "2 or more models are killed at the same moment".

If you're talking about damage from a pulse, blast, or shockwave killing multiple models, those are all separate instances of 6.c being resolved.

21 hours ago, Ogid said:

There is no model affected by this aura, the aura triggers when a model is killed but the effect of that aura isn't over that model but over the player's cache (which isn't ruled by the above)... so it seems there is nothing preventing two of these auras to trigger when a model is killed in range of both.

Forty two model cards and two other upgrades that contain the phrase "this model's crew gains one soulstone", because the authors didn't want to write "this model gains a soulstone" and this is what happens.  🤕