Torment Ability clarifications

[Fleup]

Is it possible that this ability is missing two crucial clarifications?

'Torment: At the end of this model's Activation, if it damaged an enemy model with an Attached Upgrade, it may draw a card.'

First: When does the damaged enemy model need an Attached Upgrade? When the damage is suffered or when this Ability resolves?

Second: Isn't the Ability missing a 'during this activation' phrase?

As I read it, a model with Torment could damage an enemy with an Attached Upgrade in Turn 1 and would never have to do it again, because from now on it can always say 'I still damaged that enemy in Turn 1.'

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think the Malifaux rules are wonky enough that you need to be willing to read between the lines a bit.

Obviously it means during the activation. You can't damage them last turn and draw for it this turn.

As for when the model needs to have the upgrade attached, I think it is slightly ambiguous. But I would lean towards reading it as they need to have the upgrade when they took the damage (otherwise they didn't "damage an enemy model with an attached upgrade").

[Myyrä]

Maybe it means you were supposed to attack the enemy model using an attached upgrade. 🤔

[diki]

9 hours ago, Myyrä said:

Maybe it means you were supposed to attack the enemy model using an attached upgrade. 🤔

OMG I need to try to force my local evil Jack Daw player into agreeing with this . It might give Marcus a tiny chance.....

I personally think its filthy that its any upgrade and not a CURSED upgrade.

[Davos]

Its not that crazy that it procs off any upgrades, when you figure at minimum, 2 factions - TT and Ressers - have at least 1 auto take upgrades. Tormented at least makes the auto-take a little questionable for those players. 

If it was only Cursed Upgrades, there would have to be more ways for Daw & Company to give out upgrades, as currently there are 3, and 1 of them requires a Guilty to die

[Myyrä]

1 minute ago, Davos said:

Its not that crazy that it procs off any upgrades, when you figure at minimum, 2 factions - TT and Ressers - have at least 1 auto take upgrades. Tormented at least makes the auto-take a little questionable for those players. 

If it was only Cursed Upgrades, there would have to be more ways for Daw & Company to give out upgrades, as currently there are 3, and 1 of them requires a Guilty to die

It's unpleasantly powerful against masters like McCabe and Marcus.

[Yore Huckleberry]

28 minutes ago, Davos said:

Its not that crazy that it procs off any upgrades, when you figure at minimum, 2 factions - TT and Ressers - have at least 1 auto take upgrades. Tormented at least makes the auto-take a little questionable for those players.

Arcanists have the Arcane Reservoir one, although it often goes on Soulstone Miners.
Neverborn have really good ones too.
Vs Guild this means they're unlikely to take Lead Lined Coat since they'd be paying two stones for a wash.

List of masters who use upgrades should also include Yan Lo, Ophelia LaCroix, and every summoner. Plus there are models like Austringers that attach an upgrade to do a specific thing. And that's without using your own tech to apply upgrades for a bonus.

[Jesy Blue]

Don't forget Von Schill.

Also, few are the crews from the Bayou who will not take Twelve Cups of Coffee on something.