Shoulder Rush Spam?

[Kharnage]

So Geryon have Shoulder Rush, which reads: 
Push this model 6" in any direction. If this Push is interrupted by one or more Ice Pillar Markers, Push one of those Ice Pillar Markers away from this model a number of inches equal to the distance this model moved. If this model or the Pushed Ice Pillar Marker comes into base contact with one or more other models, those models must each pass a TN X Mv duel, where X is equal to this Action's final duel total, or suffer 2 damage.
Basically my question is this; if my Geryon Shoulder Rushes a model he is already in base contact with, does that still count as the interrupted push? I'm making sure that still counts, so if I want to, I can rush someone, then rush someone again, since it's a tactical action and that's pretty neat, maybe gaining focus along the way. 

[Yore Huckleberry]

4 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

So Geryon have Shoulder Rush, which reads: 
Push this model 6" in any direction. If this Push is interrupted by one or more Ice Pillar Markers, Push one of those Ice Pillar Markers away from this model a number of inches equal to the distance this model moved. If this model or the Pushed Ice Pillar Marker comes into base contact with one or more other models, those models must each pass a TN X Mv duel, where X is equal to this Action's final duel total, or suffer 2 damage.
Basically my question is this; if my Geryon Shoulder Rushes a model he is already in base contact with, does that still count as the interrupted push? I'm making sure that still counts, so if I want to, I can rush someone, then rush someone again, since it's a tactical action and that's pretty neat, maybe gaining focus along the way. 

You're fine in terms of rules! Being in contact already doesn't prevent the push: it simply limits (as you note) your push to 0" before you encounter an obstacle.

That said, I have a hard time imagining a moment where it would be better to shoulder rush your target than simply attack with your stat 6, 2" engagement Boulder Fist! I like your action efficiency if you want the focus and have a moderate tome in hand (if you have a SEVERE tome, you ought to just hit them with Boulder Fist and declare slow, unless you're outright killing the model!): then you could:
1) Declare Shoulder Rush
  1a) Cheat in your tome trigger and declare it
  1b) Force the opposing model to take the MV test
  1c) Become focused
2) Make a focused Bolder Fist attack

Otherwise, it's hard to imagine that the TN X vs MV is going to more reliably deal damage than hitting them with your Boulder Fist!

[Kharnage]

1 minute ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

Otherwise, it's hard to imagine that the TN X vs MV is going to more reliably deal damage than hitting them with your Boulder Fist!

I'm trying to kill Dreamer, who has Serene Countenance, Protected, and Incorporeal, and Shoulder Rush gets around all of that.

[Yore Huckleberry]

2 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

I'm trying to kill Dreamer, who has Serene Countenance, Protected, and Incorporeal, and Shoulder Rush gets around all of that.

Aha! Then yes, hit him from every side with your mountain-sized beef ogres!

 

[Ogid]

16 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

So Geryon have Shoulder Rush, which reads: 
Push this model 6" in any direction. If this Push is interrupted by one or more Ice Pillar Markers, Push one of those Ice Pillar Markers away from this model a number of inches equal to the distance this model moved. If this model or the Pushed Ice Pillar Marker comes into base contact with one or more other models, those models must each pass a TN X Mv duel, where X is equal to this Action's final duel total, or suffer 2 damage.
Basically my question is this; if my Geryon Shoulder Rushes a model he is already in base contact with, does that still count as the interrupted push? I'm making sure that still counts, so if I want to, I can rush someone, then rush someone again, since it's a tactical action and that's pretty neat, maybe gaining focus along the way

Yes you can, as stated in the pg14:

Quote

Any time something changes location or is affected by a movement effect, it is considered to have moved (even if it moved 0").

So even pushing 0'', it counts as a movement and can be interrupted.

5 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

I'm trying to kill Dreamer, who has Serene Countenance, Protected, and Incorporeal, and Shoulder Rush gets around all of that.

Wow, ignoring all those defenses sounds super NPE and broken 

[solkan]

53 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

if my Geryon Shoulder Rushes a model he is already in base contact with, does that still count as the interrupted push? I'm making sure that still counts, so if I want to, I can rush someone, then rush someone again, since it's a tactical action and that's pretty neat, maybe gaining focus along the way. 

There's a tricky problem with this, though.

Shoulder Rush is a 6" Push, not an up to 6" push.  Incorporeal models don't interrupt a push unless the push ends overlapping them.

Quote

Incorporeal:   ...  This model ignores terrain while moving and is unaffected by Hazardous Terrain.  This model can move through other models and vice versa.

vs.

Quote

If a Pushed model encounters another model or Impassable Terrain during this movement, its movement is interrupted and stops.

You'll have a lot of arguments if you're going to try to argue that Incorporeal models don't Push through other models, and that other models don't push through Incorporeal models; rather than taking that paragraph as stating that "If a Push cannot move further (such as because of another model or impassable terrain), its movement is interrupted and stops." concerning being pushed to the board edge, etc.

Edit:  Although, actually, "If this model or the Pushed Ice Pillar Marker comes into base contact with one or more other models, ..." means that you don't have to have the Geryon's movement interrupted to cause the duel and damage.

The Geryon should be able to use Shoulder Rush to push through incorporeal models, possibly multiple ones, going as far as that 6" push will allow it.  And then you can do it again.

Or push an ice pillar, since  the "Moving Terrain Markers" rules say:

Quote

When a Terrain Marker with the Climbable or Impassable Terrain Trait moves, it is treated as if
it were a model (and thus it can move across the top of Climbable Terrain but cannot move through Impassable Terrain or models).

Just expect that the pillars and the Geryon are going to go through the incorporeal models, not stop the first model they enter base contact with.

 

[Ogid]

good point...

The interrupting a movement by overlapping isn't clear and i'd like to see it FAQed tbh, last time discussed here:

Incorporeal models however cannot ignore terrain if they are not moving, so using a Pilar they can get damaged by shoulder rush.

[Kharnage]

1 hour ago, Ogid said:

Wow, ignoring all those defenses sounds super NPE and broken 

Dreamer STILL gets a resist, and this isn't a 3/4/5 straight flip. Get outta here

[Ogid]

You'll defeat your white whale! (eventualy). Keep on it

[Maniacal_cackle]

You'll pass straight through Dreamer, but if you have an ice pillar on the other side of him to interrupt the push, that could work.

[Yore Huckleberry]

1 hour ago, solkan said:

Edit:  Although, actually, "If this model or the Pushed Ice Pillar Marker comes into base contact with one or more other models, ..." means that you don't have to have the Geryon's movement interrupted to cause the duel and damage.

The Geryon should be able to use Shoulder Rush to push through incorporeal models, possibly multiple ones, going as far as that 6" push will allow it.  And then you can do it again.

 

 

I agree with @solkan here -- the incorporeal rules don't allow you to stop your push, but you're okay because the ability itself doesn't require you to be stopped, just to have "come into base contact" during the push. The USUAL way for that is of course to get stopped by it, but you'll have come into base contact even if you charge right through the dreamer.

[Ogid]

2 hours ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

I agree with @solkan here -- the incorporeal rules don't allow you to stop your push, but you're okay because the ability itself doesn't require you to be stopped, just to have "come into base contact" during the push. The USUAL way for that is of course to get stopped by it, but you'll have come into base contact even if you charge right through the dreamer.

Reading it again you could be right... that could be very good versus incorporeal heavy crews.

[diki]

Shoulder Rush

If this model or the Pushed Ice Pillar Marker comes into base contact with one or more other models, those models must each pass a TN X Mv duel, where X is equal to this Action's final duel total, or suffer 2 damage.

Into - implies it wasn't in base contact to start with. I don't have strong feelings about this 🤷‍♂️ but I could easily see people feeling this criteria isn't met when the ice pillar is making a 0" push

 

Also its a bit like the Geryon is have a little nap against the pillar rather than Rushing it 😂

[Ogid]

3 hours ago, diki said:

Into - implies it wasn't in base contact to start with. I don't have strong feelings about this 🤷‍♂️ but I could easily see people feeling this criteria isn't met when the ice pillar is making a 0" push

Problem is... that's nuance is nowhere in the rules. What it is in the rules is that movement of 0'' is still considered a movement, if a 0'' movement is legal, any effect derived from that movement would also be legal... I see your reasoning, but I think that it would need to be specified in the rulebook to be played like you are suggesting.

[diki]

It's the wording of the action that implies it needs change. Like most of my observations it is highly pedantic though😭

 

John is sitting (move 0") in a bar!
John comes into the bar!
Confused bartender to the two John's: "Wait what, You're twins?"