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Miskai's "You're Already Dead" and Red Joker


Darkvoice

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49 minutes ago, Darkvoice said:

Hey everyone,

 

So many questions..

Can the Red Joker can only have it's suit chosen when drawn, and 

Is the Red Joker's suit retained upon entering the discard pile, or 

Can the Red Joker's suit be re-picked any time it's used?

 

Thanks!

 

 

I think at any time the owner of the red joker can choose 1 suit for it! So when doing You're already dead you can choose it to be any suit you want! I'm pretty sure it does not stay the suit you used it first because you would have to remember it for the duration of the turn and nowhere does it say that in the rules. It only says the red joker has a value of 14 and a suit of the owner's choice! ;)

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The mechanics of when to choose the suit, and when the joker has a suit, went through a few different versions in the beta.  There was a time period where the rules said that you only chose a suit when revealed as part of a flip, and I may be biased by that old version...

But from the section on Fate Cards...

Quote

Malifaux uses its own suits, but they translate to the standard playing card suits as below.

• Rams (Hearts) R – 13 cards, 1 through 13
• Masks (Diamonds) M – 13 cards, 1 through 13

• Crows (Spades) c – 13 cards, 1 through 13
• Tomes (Clubs) t – 13 cards, 1 through 13
• Jokers – 2 cards, Black Joker and Red Joker

The Red Joker has a value of 14 and has one suit of its owner’s choosing. The Black Joker has a value of 0 and has no suits.

The Red Joker has one suit of its owner's choosing, but it's not a Crows, it's a Joker.

Quote

:crow"You're Already Dead":  For each :crowthis model shuffled into its Fate Deck, house an enemy model within 8" and LoS.  Each chosen model must either discard a card or gain Stunned.

The same thing would go for 

Quote

:tomeRisking It All:  Choose a suit.  When resolving, the target suffers 1 damage for each and of the chosen suit in the opposing player's Control Hand.

The two jokers don't belong to any of the suits, they're their own category.

Edit:  There's supporting evidence for this if you look at things like Corrupted Idols (five suits listed).  I don't think it's common to call the jokers a separate suit, you're more likely to consider them suitless, but it's the same result.  

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3 hours ago, solkan said:

The mechanics of when to choose the suit, and when the joker has a suit, went through a few different versions in the beta.  There was a time period where the rules said that you only chose a suit when revealed as part of a flip, and I may be biased by that old version...

But from the section on Fate Cards...

The Red Joker has one suit of its owner's choosing, but it's not a Crows, it's a Joker.

The same thing would go for 

The two jokers don't belong to any of the suits, they're their own category.

Edit:  There's supporting evidence for this if you look at things like Corrupted Idols (five suits listed).  I don't think it's common to call the jokers a separate suit, you're more likely to consider them suitless, but it's the same result.  

How would this interpretation interact with a trigger like Blaze? If you gain Buring equal to the number of Tomes in the final duel total and the Joker isnt a Tome...

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12 hours ago, Mycellanious said:

How would this interpretation interact with a trigger like Blaze? If you gain Buring equal to the number of Tomes in the final duel total and the Joker isnt a Tome...

Completely different issue.

Red Joker adding a suit during a duel (which matters for Blaze) isn't in dispute.

The issue at play is whether the Red Joker has a suit outside of a duel.

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31 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

The issue at play is whether the Red Joker has a suit outside of a duel.

I'd say always, unless there is other rule overriding it.

For example in the case of the idols the jocker is stated as "reflip"; that is overriding the jocker's rule; if there is no reference to the jockers (like in this Misaki's "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru" bonus action) then the RJ can be used as the player's suit choice.

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