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Nekima vs Ironsides


Sybaris

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I've played against iron sides alot, and I'd say IR is a must for the 1 ping on a charge to help soften things up, on some mature Nephilim. They like to have a few small bubbles for + to df and wp duels, so charging through as many as you can, can really hurt the crew. Ironsides will be a different matter. Depending on the list they run, I'd say go for gunsmiths asap, before they shoot you down.  Try to engage multiple things for bb damage as well

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I had a game against her on Sunday (tournament). I played Lilith (with Ancient Pact) instead Nekima but with a lot of Nephilims (1 Mature with IR, 3 Young, Serena).

However, the most influencing thing is the strategy - it was corupted idols. I managed to win initiative for all rounds (due to AP and less crew members) and are able to place the strategy marker in the corner where only a few guys from Ironsides are near.

I strictly avoided to run directly against Ironsides as she is very mighty due to her adrenaline and the bubble around her and her crew members.

My oponent are forced to separate his crew (e.g. his emissary fighted against the mature in a kind of epic battle).

Of course, my oponent took claim jump :)

I won 6:3... 

Lessons learned:

- black blood is really good against the crew!

- use your mobility for scheming

- kill union miner/steamfitter/soulstone miner first ;)

 

 

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M&SU bubble is scary. Damage reduction, :-flipflips to damage, cannot take actions after charging, Grits active, free shielded... If they are all clustered maybe the best call is splitting and go for objetives.

In a direct clash: I'd target first Gunsmiths and Steamfitters, steamfitters handle shielded and Focused like candy and Gunsmiths are really dangerous shooters that need to be killed ASAP. Toni is probably better controled with a range 2 + Combat finesse or IR model while going for the other squisier target... with her Adrenaline Mechanic, 14 Wds and counterstrike she is very hard to take down.

However Nephs have some advantages; the mobility Fly with Me plus Mv6 really help to close the Gap/go for objetives. Matures/Nekima have a big arse, that can be used to block LoS (and negate important auras affecting the model they are engaging), if they cluster too much then blood for everyone! IR :melee2 and combat finnese really give the upper hand in close combat.

It has to be a very interesting match up.

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Ironsides played correctly is a very potent taunt tank that you don't really wanna swing at. But she's a deathball, in essence. As long as you can mitigate the damage gunsmiths will do, you're free to run around the map scoring objectives. Bring It! is still an attack, too, so you'll resolve BFJ before you take your attack, which means you never have to swing at Ironsides if you don't want to, as long as you have BFJ. 
If you're into a pool that doesn't have any good scheme-running schemes and Reckoning... pick her apart. You've got Shove Aside and Terrorize, make use of them. Once those defensive pos flips drop from Unionized and Fitz aura is no longer in range, things become a lot easier to kill. Plink damage also gets around Fitz aura, so maximize your black blood effect. Her totem is crazy good at healing, but it's still single target, and he's not guaranteed the swift action trigger. Kill him first if need be. 
Shove Aside generally is the best thing you've got into defensive auras and Take the Hit / Protected, and those rules + Laugh Off is rare indeed (speaking as someone who's spent quality time figuring on how to kill Dreamer). So use it to get that stupid defender out of the way, and go for the squishy bits!
 

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6 hours ago, Sybaris said:

Thanks for the ideas. Would it be good to use Lilitus to lure them off their bubble or she's too fragile to get into range of the gunsmiths? Otherwise black blood shamans can get pustule for more ping damage pulses.

I've not played the match up... it could be a way to try to beat them but It doesn't seem the best one. Mind the Diesel Engine upgrade is very popular in Arcanist and the concealment can counter that/force you to use focused for lures; plus Toni can always lure his own model back into the bubble (and then Lure the activated Lilitu). Including too many Lilitus and Lelus you'll be forcing yourself to play the clashing game into their bubble... if you are confident that you can win that clash then go ahead.

I'd say try to use the mobility advantage of the Nephilims for both scoring and engaging. Outside of Gunsmiths they don't have that many (good) shooters; just be careful with Toni Lures and go around the map scoring. If they split too much they should be easy picks off and if they keep themselves in a deathball they should struggle with schemes (unless something like leyline plus claim jump is in the pool, in that case pick your best assault team and go for them).

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1 minute ago, out4egos said:

Does Tony defensive trigger good shot my turn go off if you're outside her range say I'm nekama two inches out and hitting Tony if you can't reach me to hit me back how's that work

The trigger will go off and hurt Nekima because it isn't her making an attack against Nekima, its a damage flip against her. so all it needs for the damage flip is for the attack to be a :ToS-Melee: action. Range and line of sight aren't needed for the trigger (so Toni can hurt a buried Bandersnatch if it hits her with a :ToS-Melee: action)

From a fluff point of view you could view it as Toni hitting her as she came in to hit Toni. Maybe a blow on the arm or the leg or that hollywood favourite, taking the sword stab into your body to allow you to get to them.

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It's close, I'd say Nekima has a fair chance to kill Toni, but it's not worth it; there are much better targets that will crush Nephilims if they are ignored. The best way is to deal with her is throwing a bone while going for the rest of her crew (a Mature Neph with IR is perfect to keep her busy; Terrorize her away from the crew, follow with flight and keep her at 2''); but something like an Autum Knight OOK is another good bone (Armor+1, H2W, Challenge and Parry)

Also Toni cannot take on Nekima with IR (cannot bring it because she will BJW away, and she will BJW away after each hit). Less attacks also means less adrenaline generation for her.

Assuming you want to kill her ASAP. Focused attacks is the way to go; asuming Nekima has Focused+2 or +3 from BBS and 1 Concentrate in turn 1, she'll deal between 6 and 7 damage per attack (counting the IR charge damage); that's around 19 damage in a turn... Ironsides is dead is he is low in Adrenaline and SS (but Nekima will get around 8-10 damage back for her troubles).

Another way, slower but safer, is slapping her with the corpse of one of her death pals again and again (Ok, this is getting dark...). "Hurl, Corpse" isn't a :melee, so no damage back. And if Nekima get the "Ours" trigger and Toni gains Stunned, then she can charge forward with no fear (Stunned = no df trigger). However killing her just with the corpse will take more time, in this case Mouse have to be dealt with first.

About the Stunned strategy, Candy as a OOK pick could be a nice countertech to her. She is only Sz1, so is carriable by all Nephs and as the MSU like to hug each other, dropping her in the middle of a bunch of MSU guys will be quite devastating with Corrupted Inocence aura + Temper Tantrum (Candy can also join the party stonning for the "On your heels" trigger); and if Ironsides is in her aura range, she will get stunned at the start of the activation (she can still end conditions on herself, but discarding Adrenaline) and when Candy activates, she can stun Toni again; leaving her very vulnerable to any Nephilim. Extra points to the fact that Candy has no mele attack, so Bring it cannot force her to attack Toni and Toni won't gain Adrenaline by being near of her (no engagement range).

From the top of my head... Second master Dreamer (13 SS) could be also nice summoning "Insidious Madness". MSU isn't a fast crew, so there is little fear for they alpha strikking the boy; the dreamer can be put in scheme duty in a safe area or add some damage from range with "Twist Reality" while summoning. The dreamer with his ranged attacks, Matures with Terrorize, Lilitus with Lure or any model with Eldritch Magic can manifest the summons which are tanky with Incorporeal + Terrifying, may debuff Toni and attack in Wp; so no counterattack and they also heal with each attack (and with each failed Terrifying duel, or each Dreamer attack versus the model engaged with them); so they are a pretty good disposable bone to throw at her (they can't kill her, but they can keep her busy). The best case scenario here is a Mature Terrorizing Toni out of the bubble and Manifesting a Insidious at the end of that Terrorize movement... If you feel lucky the Stitched are also an option, but they aren't that good without a lot of Lucid Dreams. Alphs paired with Insidious is an option too (and it would also make a bit saferto attack because it would also put the counterattack damage flip in a :-flip)

I think there are tools to deal with her, both in keyword and OOK...

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9 minutes ago, out4egos said:

 maybe if there is a way to give tony stunned somewhere in the Nephilim crew that I'm not seen

You could technically get her with the "Ours!" Trigger that Nekima has on the Corpse toss, but if you're desperately searching for a stunner, I'd just take Candy. Sz 1 for easy flying around, and heals to boot. 

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14 hours ago, Kharnage said:

You could technically get her with the "Ours!" Trigger that Nekima has on the Corpse toss, but if you're desperately searching for a stunner, I'd just take Candy. Sz 1 for easy flying around, and heals to boot. 

Bonus points for putting butterfly jump on Candy and making her nigh unhittable in that crew while she just eats cards and shits stunned XD

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